Would Gresham be doing the same thing Eifert is if he had this years' Andy?

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Would Gresham be having the year Eifert is having is he were still on the team?

While I don't think it would be as good as Eifert is having, he would be having a good year though in my opinion. Probably his best year since being a pro.

[Shake n Blake]

1. I've been told that nobody loves Gresh, yet the OP and many of the usual suspects are coming to bat for him.

2. Gresham would've been a solid player for us if you completely disregard the pretty significant flaws in his game. He had a lot of penalties and fumbles. Too many for his position. Hands were iffy. He eventually became a solid blocker and he made some good plays at times. I do think he was limited in what he could do. He absolutely could not do what Eifert is doing.

3. I've seen Gresh homers excusing his total lack of production this season by bringing up the surgery he had way back in March. Not really buying that, but if he's not healthy enough to contribute for AZ, what makes anyone think he'd be making plays here? If he were here, he'd be doing exactly what Kroft is doing.


Speaking of Kroft, Gresh fans sure are hard on a guy who has 5 fewer catches than their boy. Fact is, this team has too many mouths to feed and the 2nd TE just isn't going to be a huge factor. Too many folks just bought into the 2 TE hype after Eifert was drafted. We're just not doing that anymore. Kroft is doing what most backup TE's do. That doesn't mean he's incapable of being a receiver.    

[GodHatesBengals]

(10-16-2015, 09:07 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. I've been told that nobody loves Gresh, yet the OP and many of the usual suspects are coming to bat for him.

2. Gresham would've been a solid player for us if you completely disregard the pretty significant flaws in his game. He had a lot of penalties and fumbles. Too many for his position. Hands were iffy. He eventually became a solid blocker and he made some good plays at times. I do think he was limited in what he could do. He absolutely could not do what Eifert is doing.

3. I've seen Gresh homers excusing his total lack of production this season by bringing up the surgery he had way back in March. Not really buying that, but if he's not healthy enough to contribute for AZ, what makes anyone think he'd be making plays here? If he were here, he'd be doing exactly what Kroft is doing.


Speaking of Kroft, Gresh fans sure are hard on a guy who has 5 fewer catches than their boy. Fact is, this team has too many mouths to feed and the 2nd TE just isn't going to be a huge factor. Too many folks just bought into the 2 TE hype after Eifert was drafted. We're just not doing that anymore. Kroft is doing what most backup TE's do. That doesn't mean he's incapable of being a receiver.    

Yep.

I got nervous whenever the ball was thrown Gresh's way every game since about halfway through 2011.

Sorry, but you just can't have that kind of inconsistency from a TE, the guy who's supposed to be your safety valve. I don't miss the guy at all.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-16-2015, 04:03 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Simple answer: No he wouldn't.

Because he's not doing much with this year's Palmer.

/thread.

[djs7685]

(10-16-2015, 09:07 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. I've been told that nobody loves Gresh, yet the OP and many of the usual suspects are coming to bat for him.

2. Gresham would've been a solid player for us if you completely disregard the pretty significant flaws in his game.

3. I've seen Gresh homers excusing his total lack of production this season by bringing up the surgery he had way back in March.

1. An entire thread full of Gresham trashing, like 3 total people sticking up for him by saying "he wasn't awful", and your conclusion is that we LOVE him? Are you trolling with that, or am I missing something?

2. I could say the same of the careers of some guys you've vehemently defended in the past.

3. Who are "Gresh homers"?? I honestly hope you aren't referring to those of us that have said he was solid in his time here.

Zero people have said anything even close to "omg Gresham was amazing!" Or even "he was great!" and you're puffing your chest as if you were right in our other argument because of this.

[BengalsRocker]

I don't really care who our starting TE is anymore.

I'm just happy whoever it may be is being used correctly for their skills.

I am of one of those who felt Gresham was not maximized in our offense.

All you really have to do is watch his college game tape and understand why he was drafted high and what I'm talking about.

Go back and watch it.  For that matter watch Gresh's first Bengals season tape.

The routes changed and so did the usage of more a blocking TE with occasional short curl route/outlet routes.

Why the guy was not passed to downfield is baffling. 

Instead he was crammed into routes that forced him to face the LOS.

If he was such an idiot who couldn't run a go or seem/deep route than why did Bradford complete passes to him in such a manner?

Okay.  He wasn't great with our team.  But this whole bumbling fumbling penalty prone picture painted is just sad.

The guy played more snaps than most players so the numbers will be higher anyway.

Hey if I want to go back AJ and Chad got penalized for holding, false starts, and illegal motions as well...  or do only suckass players do that? LOL

[*bfine32*]

(10-16-2015, 04:03 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Simple answer: No he wouldn't.

Because he's not doing much with this year's Palmer.

Well he is still coming back from a pretty serious injury that he played through and had surgery on. I suppose he could have taken last year  off and gotten more love

[grampahol]

I once had a pretty nice car. It ran ok ,but it got lousy mileage so I upgraded and got a better car. The old car wasn't bad and it got me from point a to point b, but the new car got me from point a to point b with change leftover and had better acceleration and looked better. Gresham was the old car. Eifert is the new car.

[BobJones4980]

(10-16-2015, 03:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I just don't get why people can't be elated about Eifert without convincing themselves that Gresham was a total bum that made 2011-2014 unbearable.  Wasn't Gresham the best TE this team had in a long time, or am I severely underestimating the power of Chase Coffman and Dan Coates?

This thread is tailor made for you. 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

(10-16-2015, 10:57 PM)grampahol Wrote: I once had a pretty nice car. It ran ok ,but it got lousy mileage so I upgraded and got a better car.  The old car wasn't bad and it got me from point a to point b, but the new car got me from point a to point b with change leftover and had better acceleration and looked better.   Gresham was the old car. Eifert is the new car.

This a close analogy but I would take it one step further, something like this.

Your old car, while it ran and got you from point A to point B, it wasn't that good or fast and it knocked while going up hills. You buy a new car, the same make and model but it has the top of the line engine and all the bells and whistles. This new car, you decide to put the recommended gas into the tank, 91 Octane. The old car, you put the cheapest gas into, 86 Octane even though the manufacturer recommended 91 Octane.

Even now, if you were to put 91 Octane into the old car, it would have run better, gotten better mileage and the knocking would stop going up hills. The old car still isn't as good as the new one, but it is better.

The gas is the different Dalton's.

[grampahol]

(10-16-2015, 11:12 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: This a close analogy but I would take it one step further, something like this.

Your old car, while it ran and got you from point A to point B, it wasn't that good or fast and it knocked while going up hills. You buy a new car, the same make and model but it has the top of the line engine and all the bells and whistles. This new car, you decide to put the recommended gas into the tank, 91 Octane. The old car, you put the cheapest gas into, 86 Octane even though the manufacturer recommended 91 Octane.

Even now, if you were to put 91 Octane into the old car, it would have run better, gotten better mileage and the knocking would stop going up hills. The old car still isn't as good as the new one, but it is better.

The gas is the different Dalton's.

Fair enough. Thinking of gas I finally got a new riding mower and only use premium, alcohol free gas in it. So far it's run perfectly. Since I only use it maybe once a week I can afford premium, but can't afford it to drive all over town in the car. Andy seems to be running on premium alcohol free gas this season.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-16-2015, 09:30 PM)djs7685 Wrote: 1. An entire thread full of Gresham trashing, like 3 total people sticking up for him by saying "he wasn't awful", and your conclusion is that we LOVE him? Are you trolling with that, or am I missing something?

2. I could say the same of the careers of some guys you've vehemently defended in the past.

3. Who are "Gresh homers"?? I honestly hope you aren't referring to those of us that have said he was solid in his time here.

Zero people have said anything even close to "omg Gresham was amazing!" Or even "he was great!" and you're puffing your chest as if you were right in our other argument because of this.

Honestly you're putting words in my mouth. Where did I say that any of you claimed Gresh is "amazing" etc? Many of the folks who vigorously defend him used to claim he was a top 10 TE, which he never was, imo. The main reason I think some of you are Gresh homers is because you go out of your way to downplay or ignore Gresh's faults. Sure, some were exaggerated, but the fumbles, penalties, well-documented moodiness and inconsistent route running were not.

If you refuse to acknowledge the obvious and undeniable flaws, then you look like a homer. As much as I've defended Dalton, I was always able to discuss his problems with INT's, the Browns, etc.

Btw, I noticed you skipped the part about why you guys would want a supposedly injured/ineffective TE. Kroft is doing what most backup TE's do. I think people are rushing to judge the dude, but I don't think the 2nd TE was ever going to have a big role in Hue's offense. In the words of Aaron Rodgers, I think people need to R-E-L-A-X. Kroft will be fine. 

A supposedly hobbled TE wouldn't have helped, and it would've kept Kroft from valuable snaps.

[Hammerstripes]

It amazes me how critical some fans are about guys that are no longer on the team. I liked Gresham - a lot. However he frustrated me a lot as well. I thought he was a much better player than a lot of people give him credit for.

That being said - he doesn't have the elite physical tools as a receiver that Eifert does, so I don't think he would have had the same type of year.

It's not a fair comparison either, as we NEVER used Gresham even remotely the way we do Eifert in the passing game.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-17-2015, 01:44 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: It amazes me how critical some fans are about guys that are no longer on the team.  I liked Gresham - a lot.  However he frustrated me a lot as well.  I thought he was a much better player than a lot of people give him credit for.

That being said - he doesn't have the elite physical tools as a receiver that Eifert does, so I don't think he would have had the same type of year.

It's not a fair comparison either, as we NEVER used Gresham even remotely the way we do Eifert in the passing game.

Could it be possible that Gresh wasn't used this way because he didn't have the necessary skills? I mean, Hue was here last year and had the same big plans for Eifert. If Gresh were so capable, why didn't Hue just plug Gresh in and continue with the plan?

[wolfkaosaun]

(10-16-2015, 10:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well he is still coming back from a pretty serious injury that he played through and had surgery on. I suppose he could have taken last year  off and gotten more love

So if he was still on the Bengals right now you think he would be magically healed? The same staff that missed this significant injury in the first place and then he was questioned about his toughness?

[*Nately120*]

(10-16-2015, 11:06 PM)BobJones4980 Wrote: This thread is tailor made for you. 

Nah, I'm done.  Gresham was a first round bust.  Why Dalton wasted his time throwing 20% of his TDs to this walking false start penalty, fumbling, alligator armin', piece o' crap is beyond me!  Honestly, I don't give two rats' bum bums about Gresham I'm just against acting like everyone who is no longer on the Bengals was a total pile of crap and obviously the reason we didn't win the Super Bowl and blah blah blah.

The fact that Jeff Heuerman, a TE that wasn't even drafted by the Bengals and tore his ACL the first time he stepped on a field got more off-season love than a TE who actually did stuff for this team for years is just the most delightfully bizarre fandom bs ever.  EVER!!!!

[PDub80]

(10-17-2015, 01:53 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Could it be possible that Gresh wasn't used this way because he didn't have the necessary skills? I mean, Hue was here last year and had the same big plans for Eifert. If Gresh were so capable, why didn't Hue just plug Gresh in and continue with the plan?

Heyyyyy, no fair! You're using deductive reasoning and that new fangled skill called "sense making"!

[Graphicguy]

Heard a stat yesterday that Gresh has started 4 games, caught 5 balls, with no TDs at AZ...WITH CARSON PALMER as his QB.

Kid of answers the question and speaks for itself.

[GreenCornBengal]

Jermaine can't go up and twist his body in the ways Eifert does. This could be due to his back injury history, but Gresham doesn't elevate like Eifert does. In fact, has Gresham ever left the ground for any ball? I can remember him reaching, but never jumping. Eifert you can throw back shoulder passes to, where Gresham wouldn't be able to twist back that way.

So in short, no. Eifert is the superior talent, and anyone arguing any differently is blind with Gresh love.

[Timmanis2000]

Not even close.