Patriot's trade situation on 3 players: Cap hit too much?

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(04-15-2020, 08:29 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: I could say something silly like "you're". I could rebut and we could go back and forth on this issue, but it's meaningless. I should have caught on to this method of discourse sooner. I'm not really into arguing with people. I like discussion. You are not wrong. I don't believe I am either. This conversation isn't worth partaking in. Have a good day, sir.   

I knew we weren't really disagreeing, I was just trying to clarify things. I thought we'd just gotten some threads tangled, as often happens on message boards, and I was trying to untangle them. While discussing the Bengals. No worries. 

[*bengalfan74*]

I wouldn't rule out the Patriots using one of those guys and a pick trying to trade up higher in the first and going after Herbert or Love.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(04-15-2020, 09:36 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I wouldn't rule out the Patriots using one of those guys and a pick trying to trade up higher in the first and going after Herbert or Love.

Idk why but I feel like the Patriots end up with Love or Fromm after the draft.

[BenZoo2]

I would still love to see a dalton for Thuney trade. I don’t want burrow ending up like luck because he played behind a suspect line. Draft a ot early that pans out and poof, line is now a strength.

I know the pats have cap issues. They will have TV hem regardless of which player they have. I’m not sure the bengals could afford Thuney and extend A.J. and joe.

This would also do wonders for the draft. Qb, ot, wr, lb and lb would sound good. Wouldn’t even necessarily trade down to get more picks either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-16-2020, 10:28 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Idk why but I feel like the Patriots end up with Love or Fromm after the draft.

I am with you that they may trade up in Rd 2 and take Love...

[Hammerstripes]

(04-16-2020, 12:31 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am with you that they may trade up in Rd 2 and take Love...

If they want Love, they'll have to take him in round 1 or even move up for him in round 1,

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-12-2020, 11:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The title of this thread may be misleading.  However, I am looking at the Pats current situation and believe there is something that has to be in the works.  Here's why:

When looking at the attached breakdown of the Patriot's cap situation, three things jump out at you immediately:

Stephon Gilmore has a cap hit of $18,670,000 in 2020 and $19,670,000 in 2021[/b].  Those are insane numbers and represent almost 10% of the entire cap.  Sure he is a talented player, but that is a ton of money for a team with less than $1 million in cap space (and they have 12 draft picks right now as well that would need compensation).   Could the Patriots be interested in a player trade (I know they almost never happen) for WJIII that saves them $9 million in cap space in 2020? One problem is WJIII is in the final year of his rookie contract...I seriously doubt trading Gillmore for Dalton would make any sense, although Dalton could surely be re-structured.  You could say Gillmore could as well, but he is still going to command a lot on the open market.  Could the Pats be looking at trading Gillmore for a draft pick?

Joseph Thuney's cap hit under the franchise tag is $14,700,000.  Sure, they have until July 15th to get a new deal done with him, but how much cap space will that really free up?  Could the Pats be willing to trade Thuney, pending a contract renegotiation, for the Bengal's 2nd or 3rd round pick?  
[b]
Lastly, Dont'a Hightower's cap hit is $12,445.000.[/b]  It is the final year of his deal.  Could he be targeted as a potential trade for a draft pick to release some cap?   I sure wouldn't offer our 2nd or even our 3rd for him for two years, but he is a pretty solid LB.  

Those three players account for nearly 25% of the Patriot's cap number.  And they currently have no real viable option at QB.  If they start the season with Stidham at QB, I will be shocked.  It would seem logical that something would be in the works to free up cap space and acquire a starting-caliber QB.  Why hasn't it happened yet?  Because there are so many variables that could happen in the draft.  We are hearing now that Tua has been flunked by a few teams in his physicals.  He is being called "brittle".  I would be shocked if Miami passed on him, but if they did....or if Herbert or Love slid down to the Pats...That is the best scenario for them in terms of getting a QB for the long term.  However, they would STILL need to clear quite a bit of cap space to afford their rookie contracts.  Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean the Pats couldn't still have the potential to be involved in some very interesting business dealings with the Bengals.

Here is the tracker about the Pat's cap situation:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/cap/

Great thread SHRacer, I definitely see something going on with the Patriots and we are the team with Dalton who is an
experienced QB and just put out a vid showing his rifle to improve his stock. Getting Thuney would be ideal in my opinion 
for any pick outside of the first honestly, he is that good.

Would also love to do a player for player trade for either Thuney or Hightower if we could. Like you said, I wouldn't give 
our 2nd for Hightower, but I would think hard on our 3rd for a proven LB in the NFL.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-16-2020, 01:50 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: If they want Love, they'll have to take him in round 1 or even move up for him in round 1,

You think?  I don't know...most teams that are in the middle to end of the draft already have QBs....

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-16-2020, 03:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great thread SHRacer, I definitely see something going on with the Patriots and we are the team with Dalton who is an
experienced QB and just put out a vid showing his rifle to improve his stock. Getting Thuney would be ideal in my opinion 
for any pick outside of the first honestly, he is that good.

Would also love to do a player for player trade for either Thuney or Hightower if we could. Like you said, I wouldn't give 
our 2nd for Hightower, but I would think hard on our 3rd for a proven LB in the NFL.

If that happened (Dalton to the Pats for Hightower), they would still need about $2 million cut to get under the cap.  I think Shawn Williams would be the target.  Gio could be, but with this supposed hold out of Mixon, he will be deemed more valuable.  

Hart could be cut and go with Fred Johnson or a draft pick, too, but I think they like Hart more than any of us do. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-15-2020, 09:36 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I wouldn't rule out the Patriots using one of those guys and a pick trying to trade up higher in the first and going after Herbert or Love.

That's interesting...Kind of a Cordy Glenn deal.  Swap picks and throw in a player.  You might be on to something here.  A team that needs a guard, Thuney is the best in the league.  I don't think I would trade down very far to New England's pick at #23 for Hightower, but a team a few picks ahead of them might...

One thing is for sure, the Pats are seemingly in cap hell.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-16-2020, 04:01 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: If that happened (Dalton to the Pats for Hightower), they would still need about $2 million cut to get under the cap.  I think Shawn Williams would be the target.  Gio could be, but with this supposed hold out of Mixon, he will be deemed more valuable.  

Hart could be cut and go with Fred Johnson or a draft pick, too, but I think they like Hart more than any of us do. 

Would be all for Dalton and Gio for Hightower. Dropping Gio's salary (love the guy but he IS overpaid) would help us to 
pay Mixon what he deserves as well. Mixon won't hold out, he just wants to get paid more than 1.2 mil a year and who 
can blame him? We can pay him enough to keep him happy.

[*bengalfan74*]

(04-16-2020, 04:04 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: That's interesting...Kind of a Cordy Glenn deal.  Swap picks and throw in a player.  You might be on to something here.  A team that needs a guard, Thuney is the best in the league.  I don't think I would trade down very far to New England's pick at #23 for Hightower, but a team a few picks ahead of them might...

One thing is for sure, the Pats are seemingly in cap hell.

It does seem they're between a rock and a hard place. That's why some kinda hail mary from them wouldn't surprise me. I'll be fairly shocked if they go into the season with Hoyer and what's his name.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-16-2020, 05:09 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: It does seem they're between a rock and a hard place. That's why some kinda hail mary from them wouldn't surprise me. I'll be fairly shocked if they go into the season with Hoyer and what's his name.

Stidham, yeah me too, really shocked actually.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-16-2020, 04:56 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Would be all for Dalton and Gio for Hightower. Dropping Gio's salary (love the guy but he IS overpaid) would help us to 
pay Mixon what he deserves as well. Mixon won't hold out, he just wants to get paid more than 1.2 mil a year and who 
can blame him? We can pay him enough to keep him happy.

How about we get Dugger or Chinn in Rd 3 and let Williams go? 

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-16-2020, 05:09 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: It does seem they're between a rock and a hard place. That's why some kinda hail mary from them wouldn't surprise me. I'll be fairly shocked if they go into the season with Hoyer and what's his name.

Maybe the Pats pull and Indy and go from a legend (Manning) to the worst for one year and then get their version of Andrew Luck in Trevor Lawrence?  I would be insanely pissed off.  

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

A few things to add to this thread:

More rumors abound that Tua is dropping due to medicals, and I'm referring to Bob McGinn's famous poll of NFL execs. Of course, it could be smoke, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a precipitous fall. Maybe even the Pats pass on him? Our pick at 33 is one spot ahead of a QB needy team that doesn't pick in the first round - INDY - meaning in that scenario we could have serious trade leverage at 33.

NE is indeed in cap hell. They have very few players who can be cut without serious dead money (except for Sanu, but why trade a 2 for a guy and then cut him). This is why I think that they are going to trade Thuney, but no, sadly, not to us. Probably to Detroit or Cleveland. But even then, any trade of Dalton at this point would involve us swallowing some of his money (against our cap). That's how Miami got a pick for Tannehill, and that was a lowly day 3 pick.

If you guys think Williams and Bernard are overpaid, I'm not sure why you'd want to trade for Donta Hightower. Dude has played a full 16 game season precisely *once* in his career. He'd cost us 8.75m and probably be hurt most of the time and he's 30 yo. In fact I bet New England cuts him later.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

Here is the scenario that has been circulating in my mind lately, although it is really unlikely. I believe it occurred to me because both Hobson and Dehner have floated the idea of the Bengals trading a player to move from 33 back up into round 1. Hobson just said maybe a player (and that was a while back) but Dehner actually said Dalton.

So Dalton and pick 33 to NE for pick 23 IF Kenneth Murray is there. Per the various trade value charts out there, that would equate Dalton to a 3rd round pick. To get NE to agree to it we'd have to agree to pay some of Dalton's salary, like 5 or 6 million (bc no way is NE going to pay him 17.7). Maybe we throw in Price for another day 3 pick, which they might want to do if they ship Thuney to somebody else.

[sandwedge]

(04-16-2020, 01:50 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: If they want Love, they'll have to take him in round 1 or even move up for him in round 1,

IMO, NE would have to think long and hard on taking Love. Most view him as a project, he's not ready to be a year 1 starter. So they have to ask themselves, is he better than Stidham?

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-17-2020, 12:41 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: A few things to add to this thread:

More rumors abound that Tua is dropping due to medicals, and I'm referring to Bob McGinn's famous poll of NFL execs. Of course, it could be smoke, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a precipitous fall. Maybe even the Pats pass on him? Our pick at 33 is one spot ahead of a QB needy team that doesn't pick in the first round - INDY - meaning in that scenario we could have serious trade leverage at 33.

NE is indeed in cap hell. They have very few players who can be cut without serious dead money (except for Sanu, but why trade a 2 for a guy and then cut him). This is why I think that they are going to trade Thuney, but no, sadly, not to us. Probably to Detroit or Cleveland. But even then, any trade of Dalton at this point would involve us swallowing some of his money (against our cap). That's how Miami got a pick for Tannehill, and that was a lowly day 3 pick.

If you guys think Williams and Bernard are overpaid, I'm not sure why you'd want to trade for Donta Hightower. Dude has played a full 16 game season precisely *once* in his career. He'd cost us 8.75m and probably be hurt most of the time and he's 30 yo. In fact I bet New England cuts him later.

It isn't so much the value of him as it is the position he plays. He is a talent that could play SAM for us and also rush the passer.  I think Williams are Bernard are fairly compensated, but Gio is underutilized and Williams is declining.  Fast.  Good points throughout, though.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-17-2020, 09:07 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: How about we get Dugger or Chinn in Rd 3 and let Williams go? 

All for that.