Possible Dalton Trade Being Reported

[Benton]

Dalton may not be interested in negotiating with them. They appear to be tossing their hat in on Minshew. I'm guessing they're hoping to get Dalton cheap for a year or two in case he doesn't work out. Dalton wants to start somewhere, not get stuck in a 'we're going with X this week.'

[McC]

(04-17-2020, 08:24 PM)Benton Wrote: Dalton may not be interested in negotiating with them. They appear to be tossing their hat in on Minshew. I'm guessing they're hoping to get Dalton cheap for a year or two in case he doesn't work out. Dalton wants to start somewhere, not get stuck in a 'we're going with X this week.'

What he wants and what is available to him may not align.

[Passepartout]

Yeah but no matter what. Days in Cincinnati are over!

[SunsetBengal]

(04-17-2020, 08:19 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: The last part of that I disagree with (assuming you mean it doesn't help the Bengals much). I just think it's a matter of how much money and what draft pick. Let's say we eat 4 million (Miami ate 5m of Tannehill's salary just to get  4th round pick). What veteran(s) can we get at this point for that? A veteran in decline, or a couple other pieces that nobody has tried very hard to sign at this point? But turn that into an early day 3 pick and we get a player on a rookie salary who we control for the next 4 years, with an opportunity to develop within our system. 

I'm not advocating it one way or another, just saying it's a complex situation based on many unknown variables. And lots of stars would have to line up the right way for a trade to happen. 

I guess that I just wasn't thinking of it in the same terms that you were.  When I was reading about how close Jax is to the cap line, I just assumed that they wanted to get the Bengals to eat about half of Andy's salary.  In my mind, that wouldn't be a good deal.  However, upon reading about Joe Mixon threatening a holdout in lieu of an extension, I also see that there are plenty of good RBs out there without contracts.  So, exrapolating one hypothetical situation intertwined with another, I was thinking that the Bengals could use all of the money from not paying Andy's salary this season.

[Benton]

(04-17-2020, 08:26 PM)McC Wrote: What he wants and what is available to him may not align.

Agreed. Only point is, he doesn't have to renegotiate with them or anyone else just to get their cap number down.

Right now he can compete here for the role and make $17 million, he can renegotiate and take less money to help us trade him or he can get cut and take his chances.

It would be better for him to go with the third option. Somebody is going to draft tua and need a QB in mid October, Andy could clean up. That's a better business plan than playing for half what he's making trying to beat out minshew.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-17-2020, 08:13 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: I think you're partially right, partially not. Dalton's agent can't talk to Jax without our approval. So maybe we give him approval, but more likely we act as the go-between, negotiating between Dalton and Jax. If it's like the Tannehill trade - the details of which I linked a few posts above - then we kick in a chunck, Jax kicks in a chunk plus incentives, and they give us some compensation so that they don't have to negotiate against New England on the open market once he's released. 

But no, we don't have the cap room to keep him. Claims that we do originate from the Bengals as posturing to try to maintain leverage. 

If the Bengals don’t have the cap space to keep him, don’t plan on keeping him, and want to trade him, why wouldn’t they let his agent seek a trade and negotiate a new contract to facilitate the deal that benefits all parties involved?

Conversely, why would Andy Dalton and his agent allow the Bengals to negotiate his next contract with the Jags? A player’s soon to be former team negotiating his new contract with a new team? I’ve never heard of that being done before.

[phil413]

(04-17-2020, 05:36 PM)pally Wrote: There was also speculation earlier for that trade to work the Bengals would have to agree to pick up part of Dalton's salary

The Jags have tons of picks, why pay 4M of Dalton's deal for a 5th?  Jacksonville doesn't have to bid vs other teams and gets Dalton at 13M.  Cincy adds a very useful pick and frees up space for not only extensions but even a remaining FA offensive lineman.  

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(04-18-2020, 01:31 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If the Bengals don’t have the cap space to keep him, don’t plan on keeping him, and want to trade him, why wouldn’t they let his agent seek a trade and negotiate a new contract to facilitate the deal that benefits all parties involved?

Conversely, why would Andy Dalton and his agent allow the Bengals to negotiate his next contract with the Jags? A player’s soon to be former team negotiating his new contract with a new team? I’ve never heard of that being done before.

As to your first point, as I said, they might. But they need to keep the illusion that they might just keep him, so will want to keep any negotiations with other clubs under tight wraps. 

As to your latter point, I suppose I should clarify. Any "new deal" has to be signed by Dalton anyway, so he can effectively veto anything, and obviously in consultation with his representatives. Meaning the negotiation would be between his agents and the Bengals, because of the fact that what Jax is willing to give up in trade compensation is also a function of how much of his salary we agree to pay. I do believe this happens, even if we don't hear about it much. Teams hate to give permission to seek a trade because it opens all flood gates and you lose leverage. And if they're going to eat some of his salary they need to be party to the talks.... makes more sense for them to centralize it. 

I don't claim to be an NFL insider, but I believe this is how these things work. 

[TecmoBengals]

I hate to be 'that guy', but the thread title is misleading. The quoted passage says the Jags want to sign him, it doesn't imply a possible trade is being reported.

[*jason*]

(04-18-2020, 09:30 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I hate to be 'that guy', but the thread title is misleading. The quoted passage says the Jags want to sign him, it doesn't imply a possible trade is being reported.

Lookout everybody... That guy just showed up.

[TecmoBengals]

(04-18-2020, 10:18 AM)jason Wrote: Lookout everybody... That guy just showed up.

 I'll take what's coming my way.

[shanebo]

AD and Mixon for Yannick and Fournette?

[fredtoast]

Jacksonville would be a great fit for Dalton. He flourished under Gruden before and Minshew is popular but not really gifted.

I am sure New England is his dream job, but Jacksonville is not a bad second option.

[SadFaceBengal15]

(04-18-2020, 10:58 AM)shanebo Wrote: AD and Mixon for Yannick and Fournette?

Founette is garbage but damn I’d take yan. I’m out here in Jax I watch every snap and fournette is not good

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-18-2020, 11:33 AM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Founette is garbage but damn I’d take yan. I’m out here in Jax I watch every snap and fournette is not good

The terms “garbage” or “trash” are tossed around much to casually among sports fans. Fournette has rushed for 1k+ yds twice in 3 years. That’s hardly garbage. His problem is staying healthy.

[*jason*]

(04-18-2020, 11:16 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Jacksonville would be a great fit for Dalton. He flourished under Gruden before and Minshew is popular but not really gifted.

I am sure New England is his dream job, but Jacksonville is not a bad second option.

Not to mention DJ Chark is a poor man's young AJ Green.

[BenZoo2]

(04-18-2020, 11:45 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The terms “garbage” or “trash” are tossed around much to casually among sports fans. Fournette has rushed for 1k+ yds twice in 3 years. That’s hardly garbage. His problem is staying healthy.

Indeed. I’d like to see the people using those terms go out and see if they can do better


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[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-18-2020, 11:55 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Indeed. I’d like to see the people using those terms go out and see if they can do better


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I mean, if a player is truly terrible (Billy Price for example) ok call them out, but Fournette? He’s a decent RB. He’s not as good as Mixon, but Mixon is one of the best.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-18-2020, 09:26 AM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: As to your first point, as I said, they might. But they need to keep the illusion that they might just keep him, so will want to keep any negotiations with other clubs under tight wraps. 

As to your latter point, I suppose I should clarify. Any "new deal" has to be signed by Dalton anyway, so he can effectively veto anything, and obviously in consultation with his representatives. Meaning the negotiation would be between his agents and the Bengals, because of the fact that what Jax is willing to give up in trade compensation is also a function of how much of his salary we agree to pay. I do believe this happens, even if we don't hear about it much. Teams hate to give permission to seek a trade because it opens all flood gates and you lose leverage. And if they're going to eat some of his salary they need to be party to the talks.... makes more sense for them to centralize it. 

I don't claim to be an NFL insider, but I believe this is how these things work. 

So the Bengals want to trade Dalton without letting any teams know they want to trade him?

But, if they do try to trade him they’ll want to negotiate Dalton’s new contract in order to keep it a secret even though it’s not a secret the Bengals are interested in trading Dalton?

[SunsetBengal]

(04-18-2020, 11:16 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Jacksonville would be a great fit for Dalton.  He flourished under Gruden before and Minshew is popular but not really gifted.

I am sure New England is his dream job, but Jacksonville is not a bad second option.

No State income tax is always an incentive, as well.