"He only did it for one Year..."

[*psychdoctor*]

The whole argument of "he only did it for one year" criticism of Burrow is not logical. If someone demonstrates an ability, then the potential is there. Burrow's accuracy and decision making incrementally improved each game of each season. It is what one would expect in terms of excellent performance and peaking.

Behavior that occurs for 6-12 months is considered ingrained pattern. Not a fluke. It could be argued "he only did it for one game" would be reasonable fluke. When a QB breaks historic records over an entire season, including the CFP and National championship, it is a behavior pattern of excellence. Burrow performed excellence under the most intense pressured filled moments against some of the college's best football athletes.

How many plays occurred in this "one year?" How many decisions? How many inspirational moments? Remember, over the course of playing against the best competition in college football, Burrow made hundreds if not thousands of correct decisions under duress. This illustrates the Burrow has innate ability or "traits" which are ingrained; part of his DNA.

Every athlete drafted this year is a risk. Every single one.

If a football player has "it factor" and demonstrates it consistently over several games, then the "elite" floor is there. If a football player has "it factor" potential but hasn't demonstrated it consistently i.e; Patrick Queen, then the "elite" ceiling has been established but is more of a risk to actualize the potential.

Burrow has elite floor that is not magically going to disappear. My only concern is his health and he takes too many hits. Health is the great equalizing in sports.

[Timmanis2000]

Great post!!!

[Hammerstripes]

While I can agree with what you are saying, there hasn't been a ton of guys that have come in as QBs that have had only 1 year as a starter.

I'm not worried about him only having 1 year of elite play. I would be more concerned if he came to LSU and only played 1 year before coming into the draft. He didn't. He spent 5 years in two elite college programs. The inexperience angle isn't accurate with Burrow.

[*psychdoctor*]

(04-21-2020, 02:07 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: While I can agree with what you are saying, there hasn't been a ton of guys that have come in as QBs that have had only 1 year as a starter.

I'm not worried about him only having 1 year of elite play.  I would be more concerned if he came to LSU and only played 1 year before coming into the draft.  He didn't.  He spent 5 years in two elite college programs.  The inexperience angle isn't accurate with Burrow.

My understanding with OSU is that Burrow broke his wrist, had a bad ankle sprain which led him to lose some playing time and his bid to start for OSU.  

[Hammerstripes]

(04-21-2020, 02:14 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: My understanding with OSU is that Burrow broke his wrist, had a bad ankle sprain which led him to lose some playing time and his bid to start for OSU.  

100%, but you never hear that when people say that he couldn't beat out Barrett or Haskings.  Urban Meyer was on XM today and said that Burrow was the backup until he got hurt and Haskins took over as the backup.  Then it came down to the wire.  

As Burrow has said himself, it worked out for both.

[*psychdoctor*]

(04-21-2020, 02:16 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: 100%, but you never hear that when people say that he couldn't beat out Barrett or Haskings.  Urban Meyer was on XM today and said that Burrow was the backup until he got hurt and Haskins took over as the backup.  Then it came down to the wire.  

As Burrow has said himself, it worked out for both.

I think what separates Burrow from a lot of QB's is he hates losing at anything.  I think he works as hard if not harder than anyone else at his craft.  He simply hates to lose.  I think it transformed him and helped the game slow down.  

[fredtoast]

(04-21-2020, 01:56 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: The whole argument of "he only did it for one year" criticism of Burrow is not logical. 

Yeah, right.  Years of actual NFL draft history is just a bunch of bullshit everyone should ignore.


Being a "one year wonder" is just one piece of information scouts use to evaluate players, just like a forty yard dash time.  It does not automatically mean the player is excluded.  It just means their are some questions.  If a top WR has a bad forty time at the combine teams don't automatically drop the guy in the draft.  Instead they go back and watch more film to see if the slow forty time might be a problem.  Burrow looked great in 2019, but his play in 2018 still creates some questions.  Personally I believe a good bit of his increase in production was due to coaching and the talent around him, but at the same time he has no big flaws that would keep him from being the #1 overall pick.

The funny thing is how some of the same people who claim we should ignore Dalton's one great year love Burrow based on just one great year.  Professional scouts can spot talented QBs even when they are playing on bad teams with poor coaches, and in 2018 not one scout was seeing anything great in Burrow.

[McC]

When people have to post a list of what OTHER players did or didn't do to find a criticism of Burrow, that pretty much says it all. Can't find a criticism of his personality or game, so let me bring up JaMarcus Russell and Johnny Manziel. That'll make my case. It's perfectly fair to point to other people's failures to satisfy my wonky need to throw shade on Burrow.

[fredtoast]

(04-21-2020, 02:18 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I think what separates Burrow from a lot of QB's is he hates losing at anything.  I think he works as hard if not harder than anyone else at his craft.  He simply hates to lose.  I think it transformed him and helped the game slow down.  

Hmmm, I wonder why he did not hate losing the first four years of his college career?

[fredtoast]

(04-21-2020, 02:43 PM)McC Wrote: When people have to post a list of what OTHER players did or didn't do to find a criticism of Burrow, that pretty much says it all. 

That is why I always point out that it was JOE BURROW who finished 12th in the SEC in passer rating in 2018.

[McC]

(04-21-2020, 02:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Hmmm, I wonder why he did not hate losing the first four years of his college career?

What the hell does this even mean?  Answer--NOTHING.

[Bengalholic]

Really, the only thing that matters now is what he does as a Cincinnati Bengal.

[McC]

(04-21-2020, 02:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is why I always point out that it was JOE BURROW who finished 12th in the SEC in passer rating in 2018.

And why do you do this?  Other than trolling, that is?

Are we gonna be seeing you whine for the next fifteen years about Joe Burrow?

I love the irony of a guy who goes off on whiners becoming the biggest whiner here.  Or is it only whining if other people do it?

[fredtoast]

(04-21-2020, 02:49 PM)McC Wrote: What the hell does this even mean?  Answer--NOTHING.

It means that if "hating to lose" was the reason Burrow was great then he did not hate to lose the first 4 years of his college career.

Look, all this talk about "hating to lose" being the reason he is great is just pretend stuff made up out of thin air.  Personally I think he was bitten by a radioactive crawfish before the 2019 season and it gave him super powers.  That makes just as much sense.

[McC]

(04-21-2020, 02:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It means that if "hating to lose" was the reason Burrow was great then he did not hate to lose the first 4 years of his college career.

Look, all this talk about "hating to lose" being the reason he is great is just pretend stuff made up out of thin air.  Personally I think he was bitten by a radioactive crawfish before the 2019 season and it gave him super powers.  That makes just as much sense.

Like I said--it means NOTHING.

[fredtoast]

(04-21-2020, 02:53 PM)McC Wrote: And why do you do this?  Other than trolling, that is?

Are we gonna be seeing you whine for the next fifteen years about Joe Burrow?

I love the irony of a guy who goes off on whiners becoming the biggest whiner here.  Or is it only whining if other people do it?

Look at the title of the thread.  I did nto start this discussion.

BTW how can I be whining when I have not complained about taking Burrow?  Do you even know what whining means?  I am glad we are getting Burrow.  I am just not delusional about him like some people here.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-21-2020, 01:56 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: The whole argument of "he only did it for one year" criticism of Burrow is not logical.  If someone demonstrates an ability, then the potential is there.  Burrow's accuracy and decision making incrementally improved each game of each season.  It is what one would expect in terms of excellent performance and peaking.  

Behavior that occurs for 6-12 months is considered ingrained pattern.  Not a fluke.  It could be argued "he only did it for one game" would be reasonable fluke.  When a QB breaks historic records over an entire season, including the CFP and National championship, it is a behavior pattern of excellence.  Burrow performed excellence under the most intense pressured filled moments against some of the college's best football athletes.  

How many plays occurred in this "one year?"  How many decisions?  How many inspirational moments?  Remember, over the course of playing against the best competition in college football, Burrow made hundreds if not thousands of correct decisions under duress.  This illustrates the Burrow has innate ability or "traits" which are ingrained; part of his DNA.

Every athlete drafted this year is a risk.  Every single one.  

If a football player has "it factor" and demonstrates it consistently over several games, then the "elite" floor is there. If a football player has "it factor" potential but hasn't demonstrated it consistently i.e; Patrick Queen, then the "elite" ceiling has been established but is more of a risk to actualize the potential.  

Burrow has elite floor that is not magically going to disappear.  My only concern is his health and he takes too many hits.  Health is the great equalizing in sports.

Very solid post at same time.. it is logical and we should look at the whole of a player.. so two areas of concern for Burrow is Arm strength and is he a system QB ( meaning needs elite talent and a great coach around him) that put him on that level for Senior Year.. somewhat similar to concerns with Andy Dalton..  what separates the two coming into the NFL is Burrow has a great Senior Year and performed against some great competition but I would say the answer is he elite should be answered this season.. you can't mask "elite".. it will show through or it will not this year.. does not mean he can;t and won't get better.. but "ELITE" we will see

[McC]

(04-21-2020, 02:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Look at the title of the thread.  I did nto start this discussion.

BTW how can I be whining when I have not complained about taking Burrow?  Do you even know what whining means?  I am glad we are getting Burrow.  I am just not delusional about him like some people here.

Oh.  Okay, it's a public service.  

[Bengalholic]

Some people like to say Joe is a system QB because of what he did with Joe Brady, yet Brady himself said 'Joe Burrow is not a system quarterback.' When talking about Joe having players around him that elevated his play, Brady (and many others including his teammates) have been quick to point out that Joe also elevated the play of everyone else around him. 

I don't think it's fair to say that Joe was great because of the coaches and surrounding cast, without also acknowledging the incredible things he did to make the 'system' work and put his play makers in a position to shine, even when forced to go off-script and create his own plays, which was quite often.

[*psychdoctor*]

(04-21-2020, 02:58 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Very solid post at same time.. it is logical and we should look at the whole of a player.. so two areas of concern for Burrow is Arm strength and is he a system QB ( meaning needs elite talent and a great coach around him) that put him on that level for Senior Year.. somewhat similar to concerns with Andy Dalton..  what separates the two coming into the NFL is Burrow has a great Senior Year and performed against some great competition but I would say the answer is he elite should be answered this season.. you can't mask "elite".. it will show through or it will not this year.. does not mean he can;t and won't get better.. but "ELITE" we will see

Maybe not this year.  Elite QB like Manning struggled first year.  

I don't recall Montana being considered elite coming out of college.  The interesting attribute about Montana is how calm he was during games.  Like eerily calm.   He calmed down his entire team on the field.  I think Burrow will not only improve everyone around him with his moxy but he will have a confidence effect on his teammates during times of pressure.  The intangibles that Burrow brings was not a one year product.  It goes all the way to high school.  It is in his DNA.