2011 VS 2020

[J24]

2011 QB Vs 2020 QB
Dalton VS Burrow- I would Say Edge goes to Burrow by a large Margin
2011 RB Vs 2020 RB
Benson + Scott vs Mixon + Bernard- Again have to give 2020 the edge here by a large Margin
2011 WR/TE Vs 2020 WR/TE
Green, Simpson, Shipley, Caldwell, Gresham vs Green, Boyd, Ross, Higgens, CJ UZ- Edge again goes to 2020.
2011 O- Line vs 2020 O- Line
Whitworth, Livings, Cook, Williams, Smith Vs J. Williams, Jordan, Hopkins, Xavier, Fred/Hart- Edge by a large Margin goes to 2011. Whit & Smith are undeniably the better pairing at Tackle. Also Cook & Williams were pretty established at that time.
2011 D- Line Vs 2020 D-Line-
Geathers, Peko, Atkins, Johnson, Dunlap, Fanene, Rucker, Sims vs Dunlap, Reader, Atkins, Hubbard, Lawson, Brown, Tupo- Edge goes to 2011 but it's by a tiny Margin. The difference to me is what type of Atkins we have. If Geno plays like he did from 15-19 then 2020 is better but if he plays like he did last season then it's 2011.
2011 LB Core vs 2020 LB core
Howard, Rey M, Lawson, B. Johnson vs Pratt, Bynes, Wilson, Gaither- Slight Advantage goes to 2011. Howard & Johnson were complete players who could cover a ton of ground in the middle of the field. Rey M was physical and Lawson had rush ability. I like the potential of the 2020 group but only Bynes is the only truly established as a player right now.
2011 Secondary vs 2020 secondary
Hall, Clemments, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Crocker vs Jackson, Wayne's, Alexander, Phillips, Bell, Bates. - Advantage 2020 I really Think Jackson will be a stud @ CB+ Bates will also put himself back into the best Safety conversation. Hall got hurt that year which really screwed that Secondary because neither Jennings nor Clemments were any good at CB.
2011 Specialists vs 2020 specialist
Nugent, Huber vs Bullock & Huber- Even
2011 coaching vs 2020 Coaching
Marvin, Zimmer, Gruden, Simmons vs Taylor, Lou, Callahan, Simmons- Advantage 2011 Marvin had already proven himself as a coach + Zimmer is one of the best defensive minds ever to coach on the sideline. Other than Simmons Zacs staff has a ton to prove. I like the current staff though but there unproven at this point.

I bring this up because like this current squad the 2011 team was expected not to do that much. However that team went on to make the playoffs. The 2020 team is in a similar situation this season to that team. We have the talent to surprise people this season.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

That is a lot of clumped up reading J24, but I agree. I am thinking a repeat if not better with Burrow.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-26-2020, 06:40 PM)J24 Wrote: 2011 QB Vs 2020 QB
Dalton VS Burrow- I would Say Edge goes to Burrow by a large Margin
2011 RB Vs 2020 RB
Benson + Scott vs Mixon + Bernard- Again have to give 2020 the edge here by a large Margin
2011 WR/TE Vs 2020 WR/TE
Green, Simpson, Shipley, Caldwell, Gresham vs Green, Boyd, Ross, Higgens, CJ UZ- Edge again goes to 2020.
2011 O- Line vs 2020 O- Line
Whitworth, Livings, Cook, Williams, Smith Vs J. Williams, Jordan, Hopkins, Xavier, Fred/Hart- Edge by a large Margin goes to 2011. Whit & Smith are undeniably the better pairing at Tackle. Also Cook & Williams were pretty established at that time.
2011 D- Line Vs 2020 D-Line-
Geathers, Peko, Atkins, Johnson, Dunlap, Fanene, Rucker, Sims vs Dunlap, Reader, Atkins, Hubbard, Lawson, Brown, Tupo- Edge goes to 2011 but it's by a tiny Margin. The difference to me is what type of Atkins we have. If Geno plays like he did from 15-19 then 2020 is better but if he plays like he did last season then it's 2011.
2011 LB Core vs 2020 LB core
Howard, Rey M, Lawson, B. Johnson vs Pratt, Bynes, Wilson, Gaither- Slight Advantage goes to 2011. Howard & Johnson were complete players who could cover a ton of ground in the middle of the field. Rey M was physical and Lawson had rush ability. I like the potential of the 2020 group but only Bynes is the only truly established as a player right now.
2011 Secondary vs 2020 secondary
Hall, Clemments, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Crocker vs Jackson, Wayne's, Alexander, Phillips, Bell, Bates. - Advantage 2020 I really Think Jackson will be a stud @ CB+ Bates will also put himself back into the best Safety conversation.  Hall got hurt that year which really screwed that Secondary because neither Jennings nor Clemments were any good at CB.
2011 Specialists vs 2020 specialist
Nugent, Huber vs Bullock & Huber- Even
2011 coaching vs 2020 Coaching
Marvin, Zimmer, Gruden, Simmons vs Taylor, Lou, Callahan, Simmons- Advantage 2011 Marvin had already proven himself as a coach + Zimmer is one of the best defensive minds ever to coach on the sideline. Other than Simmons Zacs staff has a ton to prove. I like the current staff though but there unproven at this point.

I bring this up because like this current squad the 2011 team was expected not to  do that much. However that team went on to make the playoffs. The 2020 team is in a similar situation this season to that team.  We have the talent to surprise people this season.

Good analysis.. I would actually give say even with the Dlines with the addition of Reader and the play of Hubbard last season

[BleedOnB]

(04-26-2020, 06:40 PM)J24 Wrote: 2011 QB Vs 2020 QB
Dalton VS Burrow- I would Say Edge goes to Burrow by a large Margin
2011 RB Vs 2020 RB
Benson + Scott vs Mixon + Bernard- Again have to give 2020 the edge here by a large Margin
2011 WR/TE Vs 2020 WR/TE
Green, Simpson, Shipley, Caldwell, Gresham vs Green, Boyd, Ross, Higgens, CJ UZ- Edge again goes to 2020.
2011 O- Line vs 2020 O- Line
Whitworth, Livings, Cook, Williams, Smith Vs J. Williams, Jordan, Hopkins, Xavier, Fred/Hart- Edge by a large Margin goes to 2011. Whit & Smith are undeniably the better pairing at Tackle. Also Cook & Williams were pretty established at that time.
2011 D- Line Vs 2020 D-Line-
Geathers, Peko, Atkins, Johnson, Dunlap, Fanene, Rucker, Sims vs Dunlap, Reader, Atkins, Hubbard, Lawson, Brown, Tupo- Edge goes to 2011 but it's by a tiny Margin. The difference to me is what type of Atkins we have. If Geno plays like he did from 15-19 then 2020 is better but if he plays like he did last season then it's 2011.
2011 LB Core vs 2020 LB core
Howard, Rey M, Lawson, B. Johnson vs Pratt, Bynes, Wilson, Gaither- Slight Advantage goes to 2011. Howard & Johnson were complete players who could cover a ton of ground in the middle of the field. Rey M was physical and Lawson had rush ability. I like the potential of the 2020 group but only Bynes is the only truly established as a player right now.
2011 Secondary vs 2020 secondary
Hall, Clemments, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Crocker vs Jackson, Wayne's, Alexander, Phillips, Bell, Bates. - Advantage 2020 I really Think Jackson will be a stud @ CB+ Bates will also put himself back into the best Safety conversation.  Hall got hurt that year which really screwed that Secondary because neither Jennings nor Clemments were any good at CB.
2011 Specialists vs 2020 specialist
Nugent, Huber vs Bullock & Huber- Even
2011 coaching vs 2020 Coaching
Marvin, Zimmer, Gruden, Simmons vs Taylor, Lou, Callahan, Simmons- Advantage 2011 Marvin had already proven himself as a coach + Zimmer is one of the best defensive minds ever to coach on the sideline. Other than Simmons Zacs staff has a ton to prove. I like the current staff though but there unproven at this point.

I bring this up because like this current squad the 2011 team was expected not to  do that much. However that team went on to make the playoffs. The 2020 team is in a similar situation this season to that team.  We have the talent to surprise people this season.

The big difference that jumps out to me still is better Oline and Dline in 2011. Besides QB they are the most important position groups on the field for a reason. You can’t win many games if you are getting bullied on both sides of the ball in the trenches. I think we are all just hoping the Oline gels like they were at the end of the season last year and really learns how to play together as a unit. Hopefully we really did find something Fred cause if Hart wins the job I just really have no confidence in him to play consistently well and Joe is gonna take some big hits because of him. I still would love to spend our 1st round pick next year on the highest rated tackle and it's not even really close.

As for the Dline though, I feel like this unit has every chance to be as good and possibly better than that unit in 2011. It all depends on a few things in my opinion. Hopefully DJ with Geno and Wren/Tupuo rotating out helps spark some life into Geno and he can wreak some havoc on QBs this year. Geno is a HOF in my book and this might just be what he needs to get a gold jacket and possibly have 1 of his best years ever in a slightly more limited role. Dunlap needs to stay playing at a high level (not that he didn’t last year) but Father Time is catching up. And the BIG one to me is Carl Lawson staying healthy. He always seems to get nicked up here and there and if he can just stay healthy this year rotating in and out with Hubbard in different packages I think this can be one of the best D-lines in the league. 

Great post and I really agree with just about everything. Nelson and Crocker were a nasty safety duo that year and I do remember Hall getting hurt but that secondary was pretty good.

[SunsetBengal]

I think that it's a season too early for this comparison. In order for it to be a truly fair comparison, this year's team will have had to have played it's season. You're judging the 2011 team off of their accomplished record, not the potential that they held.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-26-2020, 09:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is a lot of clumped up reading J24, but I agree. I am thinking a repeat if not better with Burrow.

Yeah, I had to stop reading. Hurt my eyes. Lol

[Benton]

I like our current roster better, but dang, if we had zimmerand gruden as coordinators again, this team would be set. I'm still open minded on Zac, but so far he's not Marvin which is something.

[samhain]

I like this roster and quarterback situation better. I sure would like to have bookend tackles like Whitworth and Smith along with a young, healthy AJ Green, but you can't have it all. The 2011 receiving corps was lacking after AJ. No such issue here.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-26-2020, 10:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I think that it's a season too early for this comparison.  In order for it to be a truly fair comparison, this year's team will have had to have played it's season.  You're judging the 2011 team off of their accomplished record, not the potential that they held.

Great point, Sunset...and both teams are coming off horrible years, so the strength of schedule was really weak in 2011.  We don't know what the schedules will look like this year, but we know the Ravens and Browns aren't doormats.

I voted 2020 on the strength of the QB, largely.  Just like how the offense came alive when Blake got in the game after the first two stringers got injured and the offense soared.  I think a mobile QB with the vision of Burrow is that vital.  It is kind of funny how they were panning Jacob Eason for being a "dinosaur" in the pocket with next to no mobility and how that doesn't play in today's NFL.  It seemed like just a few years ago, they would have been raving about his size and arm strength and ability to "stand tall in the pocket", and now he is a dinosaur.

Dalton has decent mobility but his tendencies made him easier to defend.  He almost always bailed to the right.  Burrow slides around and can throw from all sorts of different places and is ridiculously accurate, even on the run.

Adam Shein, when he makes his selections before a week of games, would always say:  "I'm going with the better coach, the better QB, and the better defense".  Zac Taylor and his staff are still largely an unproven, and this year the attention will be focused on them.  He won't be given 16 years to get it right, like Marv.  He has the team now to be very successful.  He has to make it work.  With Burrow, I think the team has a real shot.  

[fredtoast]

(04-27-2020, 12:42 AM)Benton Wrote:  if we had zimmerand gruden as coordinators again, this team would be set.

That is EXACTLY what I was thinking.

[shanebo]

To repeat what others have said, our 2011 team was 9-7 and went to the playoffs, so I've got to go with them at this point. I'd love to be wrong on this one however, and I really hope that the 2020 team is more successful.

[TheCincinnatiKid]

(04-26-2020, 06:40 PM)J24 Wrote: 2011 QB Vs 2020 QB
Dalton VS Burrow- I would Say Edge goes to Burrow by a large Margin
2011 RB Vs 2020 RB
Benson + Scott vs Mixon + Bernard- Again have to give 2020 the edge here by a large Margin
2011 WR/TE Vs 2020 WR/TE
Green, Simpson, Shipley, Caldwell, Gresham vs Green, Boyd, Ross, Higgens, CJ UZ- Edge again goes to 2020.
2011 O- Line vs 2020 O- Line
Whitworth, Livings, Cook, Williams, Smith Vs J. Williams, Jordan, Hopkins, Xavier, Fred/Hart- Edge by a large Margin goes to 2011. Whit & Smith are undeniably the better pairing at Tackle. Also Cook & Williams were pretty established at that time.
2011 D- Line Vs 2020 D-Line-
Geathers, Peko, Atkins, Johnson, Dunlap, Fanene, Rucker, Sims vs Dunlap, Reader, Atkins, Hubbard, Lawson, Brown, Tupo- Edge goes to 2011 but it's by a tiny Margin. The difference to me is what type of Atkins we have. If Geno plays like he did from 15-19 then 2020 is better but if he plays like he did last season then it's 2011.
2011 LB Core vs 2020 LB core
Howard, Rey M, Lawson, B. Johnson vs Pratt, Bynes, Wilson, Gaither- Slight Advantage goes to 2011. Howard & Johnson were complete players who could cover a ton of ground in the middle of the field. Rey M was physical and Lawson had rush ability. I like the potential of the 2020 group but only Bynes is the only truly established as a player right now.
2011 Secondary vs 2020 secondary
Hall, Clemments, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Crocker vs Jackson, Wayne's, Alexander, Phillips, Bell, Bates. - Advantage 2020 I really Think Jackson will be a stud @ CB+ Bates will also put himself back into the best Safety conversation.  Hall got hurt that year which really screwed that Secondary because neither Jennings nor Clemments were any good at CB.
2011 Specialists vs 2020 specialist
Nugent, Huber vs Bullock & Huber- Even
2011 coaching vs 2020 Coaching
Marvin, Zimmer, Gruden, Simmons vs Taylor, Lou, Callahan, Simmons- Advantage 2011 Marvin had already proven himself as a coach + Zimmer is one of the best defensive minds ever to coach on the sideline. Other than Simmons Zacs staff has a ton to prove. I like the current staff though but there unproven at this point.

I bring this up because like this current squad the 2011 team was expected not to  do that much. However that team went on to make the playoffs. The 2020 team is in a similar situation this season to that team.  We have the talent to surprise people this season.

QB - Absolutely on paper. Burrow is a much much better prospect than Dalton was. Dalton did surprise a lot of people with his rookie year though, and looked very decent. If Burrow is anything like his last college season he wins this by a total landslide, but I worry a little about such high expectations.

RB - Definitely 2020. Mixon/Bernard is a very good duo. Benson/Scott were maligned, but other than Ced Ben's one good season you weren't getting fireworks from these two.

WR - Assuming fitness, 2020 again. Take AJ out of that 2011 group and it's just not great. Take AJ away now, and we still have others we could get things done with.

OL - 2011 definitely. One Andrew Whitworth is better than the 5 starters we have currently!

DL - I'd personally say 2011. In that year, a lot of those guys were still around their decent parts of their careers. We do have some promise in this group this year though, so they could prove to be better.

LB - I didn't think a ton of that 2011 group tbh, and again there's some hopes put into young prospects at LB for this year. Hopefully potential can outbeat 2011's experience.

Secondary - Like you've said, Leon Hall was missing and that was an enormous hit to that team. I really like what we've in FA with our secondary, I think we could be pretty decent. Fingers crossed. I'll give 2020 the edge.

Nuge v Bullock - I'll go Nuge but not exactly a big difference here.

Coaching - I agree with you. 2011 definitely has the upper hand, but even then we knew that the coaching would limit that team. Current coaching is unproven as anything and now has a potential superstar to help mould. Serious question marks about whether 2020's coaches are any good at all really. Hope they are!

I think if the two played each other, it'd be a decent game, I feel 2011 would eek it out unless Burrow is just red hot. The rest of the league has also changed in these 9 years though, and IIRC we struggled to beat anybody who was all that decent in 2011. We just got enough wins against average teams. I'd see something like a 7 win year this year as ok, with future success the goal.

[Hammerstripes]

This is a tough one. I would say that the 2011 team would win if they played THIS year. I think the o-line was better back then and the defense was more a known quantity.

That being said, on paper, I think the 2020 team is better, but it may take a little while before they end up playing better due to all the newcomers.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

2011 QB Vs 2020 QB
Dalton VS Burrow - we're hoping the answer here is Burrow by a wide margin but he'll do well to outplay Dalton as a rookie, especially with his main receiver skipping OTAs and the coronavirus likely limiting practices (Dalton dealt with a holdout but practiced with his receivers)

2011 RB Vs 2020 RB
Benson + Scott vs Mixon + Bernard - maybe 2020 but it's not by a wide margin. I think Benson is better than you're giving him credit for. Remember he had the talent to go 4th(?) overall.

2011 WR/TE Vs 2020 WR/TE
Green, Simpson, Shipley, Caldwell, Gresham vs Green, Boyd, Ross, Higgins, CJ UZ - agree edge to the 2020 group so long as AJ is fit

2011 O- Line vs 2020 O- Line
Yeah, no argument here. 2011 all the way.

2011 D- Line Vs 2020 D-Line-
Geathers, Peko, Atkins, Johnson, Dunlap, Fanene, Rucker, Sims vs Dunlap, Reader, Atkins, Hubbard, Lawson, Brown, Tupou - could go either way. That 2011 D-line was good though.

2011 LB Core vs 2020 LB core
Howard, Rey, M. Lawson, B. Johnson vs Pratt, Bynes, Wilson, Davis-Gaither, Bailey - I actually think 2020 may have the edge by the end of the year

2011 Secondary vs 2020 secondary
Hall, Jones, Clements, Jennings, Nelson, Crocker vs Jackson, Waynes, Alexander, Phillips, Bell, Bates. - I reckon advantage 2011. Bates and Jackson have promise but they're not yet Nelson and Hall.

2011 Specialists vs 2020 specialist
I think we need to include punt and kick return in this conversation and that may give 2011 the edge. Brandon Tate had 500 yards punt returning and 1000 yards kick-off returning that year. He wasn't the most flashy but he was real consistent that season.

2011 coaching vs 2020 Coaching
Got to go 2011. 2020 may get there but for now they lack the experience of the 2011 staff.