Is Dalton a Patriot?

[McC]

(04-27-2020, 12:36 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I have an open mind

I gave 3 choices, but you missed the main point is I see no way BB goes into 2020 with a QB like Stidham with a bad back up QB behind him. Hoyer is not a good back up QB

Bill seems to love Hoyer.  He keeps signing him. 

Don't be surprised if Bill goes with the guy he drafted.

[BengalsBong]

(04-27-2020, 10:24 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I have not thought at all we would bring Dalton back after a trade did not happen under current contract... what I thought could happen down the road that after we release him there could be chance if nothing works out with other teams, he might get resigned with a veteran backup tag and salary.. 

Here is why I want a veteran backup even if not Dalton, we tend to forget other players and their development especially skilled offense players and i would say lineman too can be adversely affected by the lack of experience of a QB.. Big Ben is a great example.. many in the NFL World that understand and know the game better than us as a whole made reference to a lost year in development for JJ at WR when Ben went down.

If Burrow goes down, I hope we have a solid backup to help the development of our young players.. I think that is something many people overlook

Let's say the team is thinking like this and does not want to pay Dalton 17 million to be a 2nd stringer. Why has he not been released to find a new team. Why have we not picked up a new vet QB to back up Burrows. I could see Dennard not getting a good enough offer to move on and re-sign with us but I do not really see Dalton doing the same so why has he not been released. What vet QB will be released in the future that we would trust our team development with? Who says another team would not want that same QB to play the same role on their team and out bid us for him. I would think if we was going to get a vet backup we would of picked him up before the draft to get a decent one. I agree it would be a safe play but this late in FA it just seems like a gamble that one will be released that fits us.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

My take is we have 3 options.

1. Release him soon so he can try to find a team of his choosing. From a chouce standpoint, this helps Andy, but it likely hurts his pocketbook. This also frees up more Bengal money to spend on FAs or extend AJ/Mixon.

2. Keep him. Pay him. He gets to keep $17.7 mil. Mentors Joe. We have an excellent backup. Perhaps he gets to show out in mop up duty (and break the yardage record). Which might lead to option #3.

3. Mid-season trade. Some QB goes down. We get a pick next year. As long as we have some salary room left (we likely have to eat salary), it could work.

I am cool with trying to treat Andy right (be it dollars or a new team), as long as that does not cost us the chance to improve the team via other means.

[*Nately120*]

(04-26-2020, 09:17 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: A few reasons why you would bring a veteran in to compete  and backup Minshew 

1. A small window by Minshew vs large window by Dalton (overall winning record, lead team to 5 playoffs, solid QB, still young for a QB etc)
2. If Jacksonville feels they have the pieces to compete they might want a veteran to be able to step in if Minshew struggles or gets hurt
3.  Dalton's greatest success as a QB was under Gruden.

I guess it depends on what you think his greatest success was...he was the best in the 2015 season before his injury and that was with Hue as the OC.

I'm not saying Minshew is untouchable, and if we cut Dalton I can see them grabbing him off the scrap-heap.  I'm just saying Gruden bringing in a QB who he hasn't coached since 2013 and who hasn't had a winning season since 2015 is a hard sell seeing how happy they were to get Foles and Bortles out of town.

But yes, if/when Dalton is cut and he goes from "trade for a plug in starter" to "scrapheap system vet for cheap" I could see them grabbing him.

[Bengalitis]

(04-27-2020, 12:49 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: My take is we have 3 options.

1. Release him soon so he can try to find a team of his choosing. From a chouce standpoint, this helps Andy, but it likely hurts his pocketbook. This also frees up more Bengal money to spend on FAs or extend AJ/Mixon.

2. Keep him. Pay him. He gets to keep $17.7 mil. Mentors Joe. We have an excellent backup. Perhaps he gets to show out in mop up duty (and break the yardage record). Which might lead to option #3.

3. Mid-season trade. Some QB goes down. We get a pick next year. As long as we have some salary room left (we likely have to eat salary), it could work.

I am cool with trying to treat Andy right (be it dollars or a new team), as long as that does not cost us the chance to improve the team via other means.

#2 is a big no, unless they cut the QB coach position. 

[Essex Johnson]

(04-27-2020, 04:00 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I guess it depends on what you think his greatest success was...he was the best in the 2015 season before his injury and that was with Hue as the OC.

I'm not saying Minshew is untouchable, and if we cut Dalton I can see them grabbing him off the scrap-heap.  I'm just saying Gruden bringing in a QB who he hasn't coached since 2013 and who hasn't had a winning season since 2015 is a hard sell seeing how happy they were to get Foles and Bortles out of town.

But yes, if/when Dalton is cut and he goes from "trade for a plug in starter" to "scrapheap system vet for cheap" I could see them grabbing him.

A scrapheap to me is not a QB at what 31 that has been a starter.. coaches see past records.. they know that is not always an indication of a player.. When you look at the total picture. you have a QB that has stayed healthy most of career.. has a winning record as a Starter. lead his team to 5 playofss.. zero issues on and off the field.. man that sounds good for a a veteran backup without a doubt

[Essex Johnson]

Though I think Colts work a trade with Patriots and send Brissett to NE... he came from that system.. showed promise as a starter,,, seems to make sense

[Bengalstripes9]

New England doesn’t seem too upset about their QB situation right now. They didn't draft a Qb. Not showing any signs of trying to bring one in. I don’t really see them as a potential trade partner at this point—but hey, maybe they’re being deceptive. Doesn’t seem like it though.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-27-2020, 08:26 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: New England doesn’t seem too upset about their QB situation right now. They didn't draft a Qb. Not showing any signs of trying to bring one in. I don’t really see them as a potential trade partner at this point—but hey, maybe they’re being deceptive. Doesn’t seem like it though.

That's easy for you to say;  But I'd be willing to just about bet anything that BB, Robert Kraft, and all of the "Patriots Nation" is shitting bricks about now..

[Bengalstripes9]

(04-27-2020, 08:33 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's easy for you to say;  But I'd be willing to just about bet anything that BB, Robert Kraft, and all of the "Patriots Nation" is shitting bricks about now..

They didn't draft a QB. They haven't brought anyone in except for Hoyer. Everything they are doing in terms of FA and the draft supports what I said. Of course their fan base is shitting bricks. But their organization seems rather calm. It could be all for show, as I stated. I'm just calling it as I see it.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-27-2020, 09:12 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: They didn't draft a QB. They haven't brought anyone in except for Hoyer. Everything they are doing in terms of FA and the draft supports what I said. Of course their fan base is shitting bricks. But their organization seems rather calm. It could be all for show, as I stated. I'm just calling it as I see it.

I suspect that they were fully expecting to draft a QB in the 1st round.  They likely tried to make deals to move up, but lacked the draft capital this season to pull it off.  It's just a hunch, as I have nothing to back it up, just my own opinion.

[Bengalstripes9]

(04-27-2020, 09:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I suspect that they were fully expecting to draft a QB in the 1st round.  They likely tried to make deals to move up, but lacked the draft capital this season to pull it off.  It's just a hunch, as I have nothing to back it up, just my own opinion.

They could have drafted Love, but they traded down. They could have drafted one of the other QBs in the second--they didn't. I guess I don't see it. Everything they did makes me believe they didn't value those QBs more than what they have in Stidham. 

[SunsetBengal]

(04-27-2020, 09:44 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: They could have drafted Love, but they traded down. They could have drafted one of the other QBs in the second--they didn't. I guess I don't see it. Everything they did makes me believe they didn't value those QBs more than what they have in Stidham. 

After the top 3 QB prospects, the potential level took a nose dive.  Jordan Love has fantastic physical tools, I just don't think that he processes things as quick as it takes to be an NFL game changer.

[samhain]

(04-27-2020, 09:44 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: They could have drafted Love, but they traded down. They could have drafted one of the other QBs in the second--they didn't. I guess I don't see it. Everything they did makes me believe they didn't value those QBs more than what they have in Stidham. 

I can't say what the plan is.  I think they are waiting to see what shakes loose in FA before the season starts.  I'm not sure about Newton's health or fit with their system, but he's out there.  If they truly like Andy as an option, then they have to know that all they need to do is wait.  The Bengals can in no way afford to keep him at his current salary.  Bill isn't quite out of options.  Maybe ideal options, but not all of them.

Or maybe he's going to tank for Trevor, lol.

[guyofthetiger]

I think the Patriots are waiting to move on Dalton once it is determined there will be a 2020 season. Why pay him and no games? And I think the Bengals will have to pay part of Dalton's salary.

[Luvnit2]

(04-27-2020, 09:12 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: They didn't draft a QB. They haven't brought anyone in except for Hoyer. Everything they are doing in terms of FA and the draft supports what I said. Of course their fan base is shitting bricks. But their organization seems rather calm. It could be all for show, as I stated. I'm just calling it as I see it.

BB said they intended to draft a QB and their guy did not fall to them. That was a ton of info from BB who normally says nothing.

He wants a better option short and long term.

[Luvnit2]

(04-27-2020, 10:42 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: I think the Patriots are waiting to move on Dalton once it is determined there will be a 2020 season. Why pay him and no games? And I think the Bengals will have to pay part of Dalton's salary.

It is my understanding NFL salaries are tied into TV revenue, no TV revenue = noone gets paid

I m fairly certain all pro sports have this clause.

[*Nately120*]

(04-27-2020, 08:12 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: A scrapheap to me is not a QB at what 31 that has been a starter.. coaches see past records.. they know that is not always an indication of a player.. When you look at the total picture. you have a QB that has stayed healthy most of career.. has a winning record as a Starter. lead his team to 5 playofss.. zero issues on and off the field.. man that sounds good for a a veteran backup without a doubt

I get that but saying Dalton is a lot better than his 2019 self gets people nervous that ZT is going to mishandled Burrow. 

It's easier to hope Dalton just sucks now. 

[Joelist]

(04-28-2020, 11:01 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I get that but saying Dalton is a lot better than his 2019 self gets people nervous that ZT is going to mishandled Burrow. 

It's easier to hope Dalton just sucks now. 

I prefer to look at ALL the elements. 

2019 was almost a perfect offensive bad storm. We lost AJ and Jonah before the season even started. Boling retired. Price bombed out, Glenn was hurt, Ross got hurt. All this within a very short time of opening day. With no real threats at WR and an OL doing an atrocious job blocking (partly because the scheme was a total misfit to the players), there was no way for any QB to be successful. The bad blocking and lack of threats even caused ZT to scrap parts of the playbook because the line could not hold blocks long enough for the plays to develop. And last but FAR from least the incredibly bad defense put us behind the eight ball in almost every game which again served to limit the offensive options. 

This season, in theory adding Higgins gives us some ability to still be explosive even if AJ is hurt again. The OL gets Jonah back, adds Filo and hopefully this time they tailor the blocking scheme to the players better. And hopefully all the new adds on defense lead to us not constantly playing from a disadvantaged position. 

[Aquapod770]

(04-25-2020, 10:39 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree with you. It is either Pats or Jags as neither has a good QB option.

However, Bengals may be trying to restructure AD and compete year #1 with Burrow. It is a huge deal having no rookie camps and possibly training camp for a QB. I found it interesting Zac told Burrow he had to win the job and Burrow agreed. Maybe smoke screen by Zac or maybe not.

Minshew was better than Murray last year. The Jags are fine at QB. 

Dalton to NE makes way too much sense. I'd love to see what Dalton could do under Bill.