Cap Space Article

[kdgjr]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bengals-cap-space-update-after-andy-dalton-s-release/ar-BB13r3Ql?ocid=hplocalnews

The Cincinnati Bengals were never going into 2020 with Andy Dalton’s $17.7 million cap hit on the books after drafting Joe Burrow.

While talk about Dalton serving as a mentor to Burrow was worth exploring, the reality is Dalton had made it clear last season when he got benched that he wanted out so he could go compete for a starting job elsewhere.

The Bengals granted that wish Thursday with Dalton’s release, clearing his non-guaranteed $17.7 million from the books. According to Spotrac, that leaves the team with roughly $25.7 million in cap space.

Keep in mind that number is before the Bengals dole out contracts to rookies with Joe Burrow leading the way about $6.5 million in 2020.

The number will fluctuate from here as the Bengals make moves over the summer. But for as much as this offseason was about spending big on free agents, it was also about trimming the fat — big contracts belonging to Dalton and Dre Kirkpatrick are off the books, leaving A.J. Green, Geno Atkins and Carlos Dunlap as the team’s three biggest cap hits and the only above five percent of the total cap.

Speaking of Green, the next monetary matters facing the Bengals are an extension with him, as well as pondering the futures of Joe Mixon and John Ross.

[schroomytunes]

This offseason I would grade an A, they did a good job acquiring good young talent on the defensive side of the ball, and drafted well at areas of need. What I really liked was the trimming of the fat to make those deals happen!

Free Agents:
-for once we didn't overpay for our own and it shows as many are still unemployed (Dennard, Kirkpatrick, Glenn, Webb) and the ones that did sign none of them signed a huge contract.

Salary Cap:
- they jettisoned so much dead weight this year, where in years past they would have just rode out the entire contract.
-Kirkpatrick, Webb, Miller, Dalton, Glenn, Brown, all cuts!!!

Future:
-this team is younger and much better positioned to make a run in 2021, but be way more competitive in 2020.

-I would like to see an extention to Mixon before AJ Green though, I'm just leery on the health issue, and I would absolutely not pick up John Ross's 5th year, but I would try to re-sign on a cheap 2-3 yr deal.

[BengalsBong]

(04-30-2020, 05:56 PM)schroomytunes Wrote: This offseason I would grade an A, they did a good job acquiring good young talent on the defensive side of the ball, and drafted well at areas of need. What I really liked was the trimming of the fat to make those deals happen!

Free Agents:
-for once we didn't overpay for our own and it shows as many are still unemployed (Dennard, Kirkpatrick, Glenn, Webb) and the ones that did sign none of them signed a huge contract.

Salary Cap:
- they jettisoned so much dead weight this year, where in years past they would have just rode out the entire contract.
-Kirkpatrick, Webb, Miller, Dalton, Glenn, Brown, all cuts!!!

Future:
-this team is younger and much better positioned to make a run in 2021, but be way more competitive in 2020.

-I would like to see an extention to Mixon before AJ Green though, I'm just leery on the health issue, and I would absolutely not pick up John Ross's 5th year, but I would try to re-sign on a cheap 2-3 yr deal.

I agree pay Mixon he is going to earn 1.4 million I think is what I heard he is worth a lot more. Even if you do not want to give him a big contract this year and want to wait till next year you still got to throw him a bone. Offer him a 4 million raise to 5.4 million and tell him that he will get a new contract next year. He is a big durable guy I do not think he will worry about not being healthy for his contract next year.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-30-2020, 06:17 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: I agree pay Mixon he is going to earn 1.4 million I think is what I heard he is worth a lot more. Even if you do not want to give him a big contract this year and want to wait till next year you still got to throw him a bone. Offer him a 4 million raise to 5.4 million and tell him that he will get a new contract next year. He is a big durable guy I do not think he will worry about not being healthy for his contract next year.

Giving a guy a straight up raise with no extra control is a terrible precedent to make that can lead to no good. Every single player in their contract year is going to expect to get some extra money too.

William Jackson, Carl Lawson, and Auden Tate will probably all want raises too, because why shouldn't they? They're on rookie contracts that are in contract years and are being underpaid compared to what the open market would pay them, too.

Good teams take advantage of when their players are making less to assemble good teams. It saw Seattle win a SB and be a stupid decision to not run the ball away from a 2nd one. If they went and started just giving everyone raises in their contract years because they were decent players, that team would have fallen apart in an instant.

Also on the topic of collusion, pretty much every other owner will hate you for it because it sets a precedent. 

[pulses]

(04-30-2020, 06:17 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: I agree pay Mixon he is going to earn 1.4 million I think is what I heard he is worth a lot more. Even if you do not want to give him a big contract this year and want to wait till next year you still got to throw him a bone. Offer him a 4 million raise to 5.4 million and tell him that he will get a new contract next year. He is a big durable guy I do not think he will worry about not being healthy for his contract next year.

I don't see them paying Mixon any more than they are paying Boyd IMO.

[BengalChris]

(04-30-2020, 03:03 PM)kdgjr Wrote: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bengals-cap-space-update-after-andy-dalton-s-release/ar-BB13r3Ql?ocid=hplocalnews

The Cincinnati Bengals were never going into 2020 with Andy Dalton’s $17.7 million cap hit on the books after drafting Joe Burrow.

While talk about Dalton serving as a mentor to Burrow was worth exploring, the reality is Dalton had made it clear last season when he got benched that he wanted out so he could go compete for a starting job elsewhere.

The Bengals granted that wish Thursday with Dalton’s release, clearing his non-guaranteed $17.7 million from the books. According to Spotrac, that leaves the team with roughly $25.7 million in cap space.

Keep in mind that number is before the Bengals dole out contracts to rookies with Joe Burrow leading the way about $6.5 million in 2020.

The number will fluctuate from here as the Bengals make moves over the summer. But for as much as this offseason was about spending big on free agents, it was also about trimming the fat — big contracts belonging to Dalton and Dre Kirkpatrick are off the books, leaving A.J. Green, Geno Atkins and Carlos Dunlap as the team’s three biggest cap hits and the only above five percent of the total cap.

Speaking of Green, the next monetary matters facing the Bengals are an extension with him, as well as pondering the futures of Joe Mixon and John Ross.

That's how I see it.

Well, except for pondering the future of John Ross. The team should not even consider exercising his 5th option, which would give him $18M next season. For his production his rookie contract way over paid him.

 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-30-2020, 07:24 PM)pulses Wrote: I don't see them paying Mixon any more than they are paying Boyd IMO.

8-10m per? That sounds about right.

[pulses]

(04-30-2020, 07:59 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: 8-10m per? That sounds about right.

Yeah and if he wants anything more than that then NO. Just let him play this year out and tag him and trade him next year.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-30-2020, 03:03 PM)kdgjr Wrote: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bengals-cap-space-update-after-andy-dalton-s-release/ar-BB13r3Ql?ocid=hplocalnews

The Cincinnati Bengals were never going into 2020 with Andy Dalton’s $17.7 million cap hit on the books after drafting Joe Burrow.

While talk about Dalton serving as a mentor to Burrow was worth exploring, the reality is Dalton had made it clear last season when he got benched that he wanted out so he could go compete for a starting job elsewhere.

The Bengals granted that wish Thursday with Dalton’s release, clearing his non-guaranteed $17.7 million from the books. According to Spotrac, that leaves the team with roughly $25.7 million in cap space.

Keep in mind that number is before the Bengals dole out contracts to rookies with Joe Burrow leading the way about $6.5 million in 2020.

The number will fluctuate from here as the Bengals make moves over the summer. But for as much as this offseason was about spending big on free agents, it was also about trimming the fat — big contracts belonging to Dalton and Dre Kirkpatrick are off the books, leaving A.J. Green, Geno Atkins and Carlos Dunlap as the team’s three biggest cap hits and the only above five percent of the total cap.

Speaking of Green, the next monetary matters facing the Bengals are an extension with him, as well as pondering the futures of Joe Mixon and John Ross.

Which is why they should have released him at the start of free agency and used that money to sign other free agents or extend current players.

[BengalsBong]

(04-30-2020, 06:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Giving a guy a straight up raise with no extra control is a terrible precedent to make that can lead to no good. Every single player in their contract year is going to expect to get some extra money too.

William Jackson, Carl Lawson, and Auden Tate will probably all want raises too, because why shouldn't they? They're on rookie contracts that are in contract years and are being underpaid compared to what the open market would pay them, too.

Good teams take advantage of when their players are making less to assemble good teams. It saw Seattle win a SB and be a stupid decision to not run the ball away from a 2nd one. If they went and started just giving everyone raises in their contract years because they were decent players, that team would have fallen apart in an instant.

Also on the topic of collusion, pretty much every other owner will hate you for it because it sets a precedent. 

Because none of those guys have been making the impact Mixon has year by year. Mixon's only year he didnt run for over 1,000 yards was his rookie year that he was under 200 carries. If Lawson was a 10 sack guy every year or Tate was an 800 plus yard guy every year and Jackson was getting 4 or 5 picks a year or shutting guys down like he did his first year then they could all ask for a bit of an increase too. If the players production is high then he can get a bit of a raise 5 million is not a lot for a RB like Joe Mixon and take into account he is a RB and his career does not last nearly as long as a WR ,CB or a rushing end that is in a rotation. 

[TSwigZ]

I understand the argument for not paying a HB after his rookie contract bc it never pans out investing in that position but I’m all for giving Mixon 4 years 40 Mil OT something in that ballpark i just hope there‘a no holdout and it gets settled quickly. I love AJ Green but i wouldn’t negotiate any extension with him until after the season even if that means he tests free agency he’s too big of a risk to pay now. And the Bengals clearly won’t pick up John Ross option like that shouldn’t even be a topic.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-30-2020, 07:52 PM)BengalChris Wrote: That's how I see it.

Well, except for pondering the future of John Ross. The team should not even consider exercising his 5th option, which would give him $18M next season. For his production his rookie contract way over paid him.

 

Well, if you are going to value the four year contact based on the first three years, I guess you could say he has been overpaid.  But 4 years and $17 million is still pretty cheap.  That number for the fifth year is absurdly high, though, and makes is all but impossible for the Bengals to commit to Ross on that fifth year.  Oddly, teams have to decide whether to pick up the fifth year option on their first round picks by May 30th after the THIRD year on the contract.  

So, essentially, the Bengals will be paying Ross about $5.5 million to play in 2020 and then he will be a UFA.  My hope is he produces and the team sees value in him (no one else on this team can take the top off like him) and offer him a new contract next year.  It wouldn't be anywhere close to the deal of Green, but I would much rather have a burner like Ross playing outside for the price of what Dillon would likely need ($8-9 million per year).  That would likely only be feasible if Ross stays healthy all year and produces well in 2020.

The reality of the situation is he will likely be like a Ted Ginn, Jr.  He will bounce around the league from team to team and produce here and there but the Dolphins never really got first round value out of him.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-01-2020, 04:44 AM)TSwigZ Wrote: I understand the argument for not paying a HB after his rookie contract bc it never pans out investing in that position but I’m all for giving Mixon 4 years 40 Mil OT something in that ballpark i just hope there‘a no holdout and it gets settled quickly. I love AJ Green but i wouldn’t negotiate any extension with him until after the season even if that means he tests free agency he’s too big of a risk to pay now. And the Bengals clearly won’t pick up John Ross option like that shouldn’t even be a topic.

Trying to see this through Bengal-colored glasses, I think the team wants AJ to remain a Bengal until retirement.  I could see them extending him before they extend Mixon.  If Joe has a great year, not just a great second half, and contributes in the passing game like I believe he can under this offense, then he will warrant further examination after next year.  Joe and his agent should realize that potential addition to his game, as that is where CMC earned his contract:  as a receiver AND RB....not just a RB.  If Mixon wants a deal now, I would say around $8 million per year.  He isn't good at blitz pick up and comes off the field on a lot of third downs.  Whether that is a coaching issue or not, those are the facts.  If he wants to try and prove himself under this offense with Burrow, then don't sign for $8 million.  Go out and bet on yourself and if you do have a season with 1000 yards rushing and 600 yards receiving (or more), then your value on the market has gone up substantially.  

I think the Bengals are probably offering Mixon that kind of contract and he will not accept.  They are likely going to have AJ play under the franchise tag to show his health, but I am pretty certain once they see him play all 16 games they will extend him to make him a Bengal for life.  

[BengalChris]

(05-01-2020, 10:12 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Well, if you are going to value the four year contact based on the first three years, I guess you could say he has been overpaid.  But 4 years and $17 million is still pretty cheap.  That number for the fifth year is absurdly high, though, and makes is all but impossible for the Bengals to commit to Ross on that fifth year.  Oddly, teams have to decide whether to pick up the fifth year option on their first round picks by May 30th after the THIRD year on the contract.  

So, essentially, the Bengals will be paying Ross about $5.5 million to play in 2020 and then he will be a UFA.  My hope is he produces and the team sees value in him (no one else on this team can take the top off like him) and offer him a new contract next year.  It wouldn't be anywhere close to the deal of Green, but I would much rather have a burner like Ross playing outside for the price of what Dillon would likely need ($8-9 million per year).  That would likely only be feasible if Ross stays healthy all year and produces well in 2020.

The reality of the situation is he will likely be like a Ted Ginn, Jr.  He will bounce around the league from team to team and produce here and there but the Dolphins never really got first round value out of him.  

$17M over 4 years for a guy who has around 700 and something yards receiving in the first 3 years isn't good value for the team. His 1 superb game versus the 23 games that totaled around 500 yards receiving plus the 24 games of not even playing pretty much tell us what to expect from him.

Speed in one thing, but there is so much more to the position that he's sub-average at.

The team would be better off finding a reliable WR with some speed to replace him. Possibly in next season's draft.

The analogy to Ted Ginn Jr is pretty spot on, except I believe Ted Ginn stays more healthy.
 

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-01-2020, 10:34 AM)BengalChris Wrote: $17M over 4 years for a guy who has around 700 and something yards receiving in the first 3 years isn't good value for the team. His 1 superb game versus the 23 games that totaled around 500 yards receiving plus the 24 games of not even playing pretty much tell us what to expect from him.

Speed in one thing, but there is so much more to the position that he's sub-average at.

The team would be better off finding a reliable WR with some speed to replace him. Possibly in next season's draft.

The analogy to Ted Ginn Jr is pretty spot on, except I believe Ted Ginn stays more healthy.
 

What if Ross has a 1000 yard, 5 TD season this year?  That would average out at around 425 yards and 4 TDs per season.  And that is allowing for his injured rookie season to be factored in to the equation.

If he gets 1000 yards and 5 TDs this year, that would average 567 yards and 5 TDs for the last three years.  Not #9 overall pick numbers, but let's face it:  Ross had a poor offensive line that affected his abilities just like a QB.  And you can't discount his TD production:  Just like in college, he averages a TD every 5 touches....that is based on the last three years, and no projections for year 4.  

I think Taylor will find a way to get Ross more involved in the offensive game plan this year.  Slants, screens, end-arounds, etc.  

The fact that the Bengals have three VERY important pieces on their offense (Green, Ross, Mixon) playing on one year contracts is actually kind of exciting.  Someone a long time ago said "Show me a team full of guys in their contract years and I will show you a championship team".  

[BengalChris]

(05-01-2020, 11:07 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: What if Ross has a 1000 yard, 5 TD season this year?  That would average out at around 425 yards and 4 TDs per season.  And that is allowing for his injured rookie season to be factored in to the equation.

If he gets 1000 yards and 5 TDs this year, that would average 567 yards and 5 TDs for the last three years.  Not #9 overall pick numbers, but let's face it:  Ross had a poor offensive line that affected his abilities just like a QB.  And you can't discount his TD production:  Just like in college, he averages a TD every 5 touches....that is based on the last three years, and no projections for year 4.  

I think Taylor will find a way to get Ross more involved in the offensive game plan this year.  Slants, screens, end-arounds, etc.  

The fact that the Bengals have three VERY important pieces on their offense (Green, Ross, Mixon) playing on one year contracts is actually kind of exciting.  Someone a long time ago said "Show me a team full of guys in their contract years and I will show you a championship team".  

That would be great if Ross had a 1000 yards this season. But he's gotta do it first. The time where he's paid on potential is over.

Yes, the those guys being in the final year of their deals does make it interesting. Mixon > Ross, AJ due to age and recent injuries makes him a ? mark. But we'll have to see how it turns out.

 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-01-2020, 10:12 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The reality of the situation is he will likely be like a Ted Ginn, Jr.  He will bounce around the league from team to team and produce here and there but the Dolphins never really got first round value out of him.  

(05-01-2020, 10:34 AM)BengalChris Wrote: The analogy to Ted Ginn Jr is pretty spot on, except I believe Ted Ginn stays more healthy.

Ginn was obviously a complete bust as a 1st round pick, but he has actually had a pretty solid career as a #3-4 WR. 4 different seasons over over 700 yards receiving. Also through his first 3 years, he had almost 1,000 more yards receiving than Ross has had so far (he also added in the benefit of being a good returner with 3 return TDs in his first 3 years).

I think Ross turning into Ginn is optimistic best case scenario at this point. 

My current comparison player for John Ross is Jacoby Ford. (Who was also a good returner.)

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Ross is interesting. That speed is almost like a shooter in basketball. It has gravity. It bends the defense. He is having an impaxt even when he isn't catching the the ball, or being targeted.

First couple games were pretty darn good last year. He is the only speed guy we have. I would not mind rolling the dice on an extension in the Gio/CJ/Hopkins/Hart range.

I think our top 5 WRs will all be over 500 yards this year.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-01-2020, 11:17 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Ginn was obviously a complete bust as a 1st round pick, but he has actually had a pretty solid career as a #3-4 WR. 4 different seasons over over 700 yards receiving. Also through his first 3 years, he had almost 1,000 more yards receiving than Ross has had so far (he also added in the benefit of being a good returner with 3 return TDs in his first 3 years).

I think Ross turning into Ginn is optimistic best case scenario at this point. 

My current comparison player for John Ross is Jacoby Ford. (Who was also a good returner.)

I get your point, but my comparison was more of a projection and less of what he is now.  Ginn had a slow start, was left for dead, and then has made a pretty good living as the guy to take deep shots and take the proverbial top off the defense.  Ginn has stayed pretty healthy, though.  

[SladeX]

I'm ok with paying Mixon more.
Lukewarm to keeping Ross, he needs to show a lot more consistency.

One tack the team may take with the Dalton $ is to see how Training camp plays out, and fill in holes with veteran cuts from other teams. Especially if some of the OL help is no help at all. No need to be in a rush at this point to sign a Vet.