Urban Meyer on Elite Talent

[fredtoast]

(05-16-2020, 10:47 AM)Fullrock Wrote: Yeah, let's not forget about Meyer denying he knew about assistant coach Zach Smith's domestic violence against his wife, and his attempt to cover it up by deleting text messages from his phone that showed he was well aware of it. Meyer is a huge scumbag.

Forgot about that.

Funny how this turned to a Meyer roast, but I was originally talking about his footrball judgement, and, hate him or not, the son-of-a-***** knows how to win.

3 National Championships at 2 different schools.

Top 4 teams at three different schools

Top 6 teams 10 of 17 years as head coach

Double digit wins 12 of 17.

Never won fewer than 8 games.

[*jason*]

(05-16-2020, 02:10 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m sure there’s exceptions, but plenty of the big time programs (Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, etc) seem time run pretty tight ships, no?

There are definitely exceptions, and I'm not arguing that all of the big boys are filled with thugs and knuckleheads... Most of the really bad incidents are guys who aren't known by the general public... I can't really speak on the tightness of ships of those schools.... And they are sorta still kids after all. When I was at OSU I knew Tyson Walter personally. He had a cup of coffee in Dallas, but for those who don't know, he was the guy who sued LeCharles Bentley years after he punched him, and broke his face. He was a legit good guy, but had a smart ass way about him. I could see why a guy his own size may not like it. He once gave me a slight shove that had me backpedaling a good 6 ft...

[*jason*]

(05-16-2020, 02:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Forgot about that.

Funny how this turned to a Meyer roast, but I was originally talking about his footrball judgement, and, hate him or not, the son-of-a-***** knows how to win.

3 National Championships at 2 different schools.

Top 4 teams at three different schools

Top 6 teams 10 of 17 years as head coach

Double digit wins 12 of 17.

Never won fewer than 8 games.

That's really all that matters... When Urban Meyer is beating his wife, shooting people, or driving drunk, I'll judge him. Nobody should be held responsible for every action of everyone around them.

[Whatever]

(05-16-2020, 02:10 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m sure there’s exceptions, but plenty of the big time programs (Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, etc) seem time run pretty tight ships, no?

Alabama had two players arrested for possession of narcotics and a stolen firearm a few years back.  The DA refused to prosecute, making this statement...  

"I want to emphasize once again that the main reason I'm doing this is that I refuse to ruin the lives of two young men who have spent their adolescence and teenage years, working and sweating, while we were all in the air conditioning," district attorney Jerry Jones told KNOE-TV.

The issue is that unless ESPN picks up the story, it largely goes unnoticed.  Even the local media rarely blows this stuff up because they are in the University's pockets.  It's just insanely easy for fans of a program to stick their heads in the sand and pretend it doesn't happen at their college of choice.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-16-2020, 04:20 PM)Whatever Wrote: Alabama had two players arrested for possession of narcotics and a stolen firearm a few years back.  The DA refused to prosecute, making this statement...  

"I want to emphasize once again that the main reason I'm doing this is that I refuse to ruin the lives of two young men who have spent their adolescence and teenage years, working and sweating, while we were all in the air conditioning," district attorney Jerry Jones told KNOE-TV.

The issue is that unless ESPN picks up the story, it largely goes unnoticed.  Even the local media rarely blows this stuff up because they are in the University's pockets.  It's just insanely easy for fans of a program to stick their heads in the sand and pretend it doesn't happen at their college of choice.

Like I said, there’s obviously exceptions. But it seems like some programs produce more troublemakers than others.

[sandwedge]

(05-15-2020, 11:23 PM)Whatever Wrote: Meyer most certainly did have something to do with it.  Hernandez was consuled by one of the University of Florida's lawyers during the two day investigation.  Plus, Hernandez was only a 17 year old recruit at the time.  Meyer actively tried to keep him out of trouble and then decided that a 17 year old that hangs out in night clubs, gets in fights, and shoots people is the type of kid he should give a scholarship to.

Whether you're a fan of OSU or not, it's simply naive to believe that some real garbage human beings haven't rolled through that program, just as they've rolled through every other program.  The more successful the program, the more crap gets swept under the rug.

Most college HC's that have long term success have a "good guy" public persona, but it's an act.  They have immense political power.

So Meyer should have kicked someone off the team, even if no one was charged with the crime?

[fredtoast]

(05-16-2020, 09:25 PM)sandwedge Wrote: So Meyer should have kicked someone off the team, even if no one was charged with the crime?

Yes.  It happens all the time in both college and the NFL.

[JerseyDD09]

(05-16-2020, 11:59 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Um, what?

It was his program.  He recruited those kids. He allowed those kids to stay in the program.  The culture created at that program is a direct reflection of the person who was in charge running of it. What the hell do you mean he had nothing to do with it?

---Aaron Hernandez, shortly after arriving at UF went to a bar to drink. At the age of 17.  Not a huge deal, right?  Then he refused to pay for his drinks.  Then when confronted by the manager he punched the guy in the head and ruptured the man's ear drum.  It was recommened to be a felony charge, but was later "settled" out of court.

---Hernandez was later investigated for being in involved in an assault that put two men in the hospital, with one being beaten and another being shot in the back.  Despite this, no discussion took place between Meyer and Hernandez, and Meyer described it as being "a minor situation".

---Hernandez failed at least 3 different drug tests at UF.

---Percy Harvin and Brandon Spikes failed multiple drug tests.

---The Pouncy brothers were also investigated for a shooting

---It came out years later, from interviews from former players and staff, that Meyer and UF would skirt the system hide positive drug tests and simply list the players as injured for games.  All the while practicing 1st team all week, then being put in walking boots for cupcake games to avoid suspensions and missed practice time.

---Percy Harvin attacked a coach, and not only wasn't dismissed, he never missed a single game.  No discipline whatsoever.

---30 players were arrested at UF in just 6 years.

The list goes on and on, and continues until his O$U days.  Go ahead and read some of the emails that came out recently.  Even if you want to brush the whole Zach Smith domestic situation off as bs, there's so much more than.  There's so much there that paints him as such a cunning and manipulative coach, who is nothing like the person who tries to portray himself as publically.

And that's really my biggest gripe.  I'm not so naive to think this is unique to Urban Meyer.  That only he allows some of the above to skate by.  Sure, it happens.  But he's got the gall to act like he's all about God, and this and that.

He claimed to have routinely hosted bible studies for Hernandez and other players.  Give me a freaking break.  You mean to tell me, after this kid, goes out and drinks at 17, refuses to pay his bill, ruptures a man's eardrum, assaults a man and is witness to a shooting, fails multiple drug tests, that the two of you are going to sit down weekly and study the bible?  You know all these things happened, he know you know all these things happened, then you'll both sit there and say "let's turn to The Book of Matthew:3:24.  GTFOH!

The man is an absolute fraud of a person.  He ran a dirty program and then faked a health scare to get out of the mess created.  He then started a bunch of more shady shit at his next school.  Then when another scandal started brewing there he ran from there.

Urban Meyer is a FRAUD.  A phony.  A big fat phony.  And to sat he had nothing to do with what was going on at UF is the most absurd thing I've ever heard. 

Name me one F**%^$% College Coach who hasn't had a few bad apples go through their programs?!
Jimmie Johnson ran an asylum down in Miami for years. Even the Saint Nick himself runs into problems in Alabama.
Every top program runs into some type of trouble.
When you are competing in the SEC or Big Ten for Titles, you have to take some chances, plain and simple.

So, I guess Bellichick is a scum bag for drafting Hernandez then, even though he's revered as the greatest coach of all time????
I guess all the other NFL teams which every one of those stated players played for are all scum bag NFL Teams and owners, coaches, etc...???
Throw Pittsburgh and Miami on that list as rogue scum bag Franchises?

I think people on here are going a little overboard into placing blame on a few highlighted situations and not giving the credit for the rest of the 99% of good he did for those players, families and communities. No one can control everything, they are not God as you seem to pretend to be I guess.

College football is fraudulent everywhere in the big programs b/c of all the bullshit rules that it has and competition for the elite players.
I think Meyer did enough right to win 3 National Titles, which according to everyone on here bitching about him doesn't mean squat?! Does anyone on here understand how much good has to go into a Program in order to pull National Titles out of it?!
You have to be doing a whole lot of things right with your program in order to get to those levels which you aren't giving him any credit for.

Ok, so Bellichick, you don't care about your players and your program sucks and you are human scum b/c of drafting Hernandez!! He went to jail under your watch buddy!!

Give me a break....

[Whatever]

(05-18-2020, 01:35 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: Name me one F**%^$% College Coach who hasn't had a few bad apples go through their programs?!
Jimmie Johnson ran an asylum down in Miami for years. Even the Saint Nick himself runs into problems in Alabama.
Every top program runs into some type of trouble.
When you are competing in the SEC or Big Ten for Titles, you have to take some chances, plain and simple.

So, I guess Bellichick is a scum bag for drafting Hernandez then, even though he's revered as the greatest coach of all time????
I guess all the other NFL teams which every one of those stated players played for are all scum bag NFL Teams and owners, coaches, etc...???
Throw Pittsburgh and Miami on that list as rogue scum bag Franchises?

I think people on here are going a little overboard into placing blame on a few highlighted situations and not giving the credit for the rest of the 99% of good he did for those players, families and communities. No one can control everything, they are not God as you seem to pretend to be I guess.

College football is fraudulent everywhere in the big programs b/c of all the bullshit rules that it has and competition for the elite players.
I think Meyer did enough right to win 3 National Titles, which according to everyone on here bitching about him doesn't mean squat?! Does anyone on here understand how much good has to go into a Program in order to pull National Titles out of it?!
You have to be doing a whole lot of things right with your program in order to get to those levels which you aren't giving him any credit for.

Ok, so Bellichick, you don't care about your players and your program sucks and you are human scum b/c of drafting Hernandez!! He went to jail under your watch buddy!!

Give me a break....

It really speaks to Urban's character that you're trying to prop him up by comparing him to a documented cheater in Billy B.

Every major program has it's scumbags roll through.  However, helping a recruit beat an attempted murder rap is insanely low, even for the coach of a program with national title aspirations.  When the only national championship winning HC that doesn't have the moral high ground on you is Joe Paterno, you're a piece of shit.

He was a good coach and he achieved success.  He also sunk to lower depths than most any of his peers would be willing to sink in order to do so.  Let's be real here, if Urban actually stayed retired for his "health reasons" after leaving Florida, how many people would be jumping to his defense?  

[Hammerstripes]

(05-15-2020, 05:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A scheme may limit production, but you can still see skill and talent in any system.

Burrow just did not look that good in 2018.

But I am not going over this again.  Let us just agree that Urban Meyer has one of the best coaching records in college football history, so he does not have to justify his decisions to anyone.

Sure he does, every coach does.  Nobody gets a free pass just because they won.  He's also never been that great when it comes to putting the best QB on the field - as far as pro potential goes.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-16-2020, 03:51 PM)jason Wrote: That's really all that matters... When Urban Meyer is beating his wife, shooting people, or driving drunk, I'll judge him. Nobody should be held responsible for every action of everyone around them.

(05-18-2020, 01:35 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: Name me one F**%^$% College Coach who hasn't had a few bad apples go through their programs?!
Jimmie Johnson ran an asylum down in Miami for years. Even the Saint Nick himself runs into problems in Alabama.
Every top program runs into some type of trouble.
When you are competing in the SEC or Big Ten for Titles, you have to take some chances, plain and simple.

So, I guess Bellichick is a scum bag for drafting Hernandez then, even though he's revered as the greatest coach of all time????
I guess all the other NFL teams which every one of those stated players played for are all scum bag NFL Teams and owners, coaches, etc...???
Throw Pittsburgh and Miami on that list as rogue scum bag Franchises?

I think people on here are going a little overboard into placing blame on a few highlighted situations and not giving the credit for the rest of the 99% of good he did for those players, families and communities. No one can control everything, they are not God as you seem to pretend to be I guess.

College football is fraudulent everywhere in the big programs b/c of all the bullshit rules that it has and competition for the elite players.
I think Meyer did enough right to win 3 National Titles, which according to everyone on here bitching about him doesn't mean squat?! Does anyone on here understand how much good has to go into a Program in order to pull National Titles out of it?!
You have to be doing a whole lot of things right with your program in order to get to those levels which you aren't giving him any credit for.

Ok, so Bellichick, you don't care about your players and your program sucks and you are human scum b/c of drafting Hernandez!! He went to jail under your watch buddy!!

Give me a break....

See post #17 BS goes on everywhere.......period ! But when someone has a school they hate (Ohio St.) they need to be held to a higher standard because well you know.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-18-2020, 07:57 PM)Whatever Wrote: It really speaks to Urban's character that you're trying to prop him up by comparing him to a documented cheater in Billy B.

Every major program has it's scumbags roll through.  However, helping a recruit beat an attempted murder rap is insanely low, even for the coach of a program with national title aspirations.  When the only national championship winning HC that doesn't have the moral high ground on you is Joe Paterno, you're a piece of shit.

He was a good coach and he achieved success.  He also sunk to lower depths than most any of his peers would be willing to sink in order to do so. Let's be real here, if Urban actually stayed retired for his "health reasons" after leaving Florida, how many people would be jumping to his defense?  

[BURROWorBUST]

(05-12-2020, 08:19 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001113584/article/meyer-haskins-needs-great-players-elite-culture

Found an article interview with Urban Meyer on how it takes elite teammates and culture to make an elite QB to play up to their pedigree. It’s basically an article of Meyer defending Haskins saying it’s not his fault that the Redskins are bad and they need to surround him with elite talent for him to be elite...

Meyer says the same of Burrow and the Bengals in the last paragraph.

It’s interesting to me because on one hand you believe elite qbs can change an organizations culture ... on the other hand, are certain organizations so crippling that elite QBs will never make it? I don’t necessarily buy that.

Anyways, thought I’d share as it relates to the current culture change here.

Back to the OP, Tom Brady didn't always have elite talent around him, but he was part of an elite culture that he helped to create and maintain. An elite culture can't create elite players per se, but they get close to playing at an elite level. If that makes any sense.

I think Zac is trying to build that kind of culture here. Hence all the former team captains we drafted, and the free agents with playoff experience. 

[sandwedge]

(05-18-2020, 01:35 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: Name me one F**%^$% College Coach who hasn't had a few bad apples go through their programs?!
Jimmie Johnson ran an asylum down in Miami for years. Even the Saint Nick himself runs into problems in Alabama.
Every top program runs into some type of trouble.
When you are competing in the SEC or Big Ten for Titles, you have to take some chances, plain and simple.

So, I guess Bellichick is a scum bag for drafting Hernandez then, even though he's revered as the greatest coach of all time????
I guess all the other NFL teams which every one of those stated players played for are all scum bag NFL Teams and owners, coaches, etc...???
Throw Pittsburgh and Miami on that list as rogue scum bag Franchises?

I think people on here are going a little overboard into placing blame on a few highlighted situations and not giving the credit for the rest of the 99% of good he did for those players, families and communities. No one can control everything, they are not God as you seem to pretend to be I guess.

College football is fraudulent everywhere in the big programs b/c of all the bullshit rules that it has and competition for the elite players.
I think Meyer did enough right to win 3 National Titles, which according to everyone on here bitching about him doesn't mean squat?! Does anyone on here understand how much good has to go into a Program in order to pull National Titles out of it?!
You have to be doing a whole lot of things right with your program in order to get to those levels which you aren't giving him any credit for.

Ok, so Bellichick, you don't care about your players and your program sucks and you are human scum b/c of drafting Hernandez!! He went to jail under your watch buddy!!

Give me a break....

[fredtoast]

(05-18-2020, 01:35 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: Name me one F**%^$% College Coach who hasn't had a few bad apples go through their programs?! 

Boy, you got to love this logic.

"Name me one F**^%&# country that doesn't have some people who hate Jews.  People just hate on Hitler because they don't like Germany.  Any country that has any people who hate Jews is just like Germany under the Third Reich."




BTW If you want me to I can provide a long list of college teams that don't have 30 arrests in six season, do not cover up failed drug test with phony one game suspensions, don't have a coach who lied about his assistant coaches spousal abuse, and did not have multiple players physically attacking assistant coaches


Maybe Meyer doesn't seem that bad to you because you were used to Tressel.    

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-19-2020, 05:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Boy, you got to love this logic.

"Name me one F**^%&# country that doesn't have some people who hate Jews.  People just hate on Hitler because they don't like Germany.  Any country that has any people who hate Jews is just like Germany under the Third Reich."




BTW If you want me to I can provide a long list of college teams that don't have 30 arrests in six season, do not cover up failed drug test with phony one game suspensions, don't have a coach who lied about his assistant coaches spousal abuse, and did not have multiple players physically attacking assistant coaches


Maybe Meyer doesn't seem that bad to you because you were used to Tressel.    

Wow, that Nazi comparison was quite a stretch.

Name me a country that doesn’t have racists Fred...

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-19-2020, 02:37 AM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: Back to the OP, Tom Brady didn't always have elite talent around him, but he was part of an elite culture that he helped to create and maintain. An elite culture can't create elite players per se, but they get close to playing at an elite level. If that makes any sense.

I think Zac is trying to build that kind of culture here. Hence all the former team captains we drafted, and the free agents with playoff experience. 

I agree, the culture of a franchise is huge!

I look at Seattle for inspiration. Before the 2010s they were much like us. Then, their culture changed with Russell Wilson, Richard Sherman and others. They created the 12th man phenomenon and really encouraged fan participation to a whole new degree. The city rallied around the new culture and they are still benefitting today. Culture is massively important to a teams success.

[SladeX]

(05-19-2020, 12:23 PM)sandwedge Wrote:

Puzzling. Meyers obstructs justice, basically, but he's ok. 
Turner doesn't do anything close to this level and he's a huge POS.
Make a few off color jokes,  possibly look the other way in a hazing situation=scum

Assist covering up felonies,  actual assaults=salt of the earth

Wtf? I've always respected your views going back to the other boards, etc, but this seems a little  off kilter...

Edit. Maybe I'm confused. I thought when Turner was hired, you were 100% against the hire at the time. But I could be wrong.

IAE, Meyer's right to a degree. But some great players seem to be able to elevate a team beyond the sum of its parts.

[Whatever]

(05-18-2020, 08:49 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote:





See post #17 BS goes on everywhere.......period ! But when someone has a school they hate (Ohio St.) they need to be held to a higher standard because well you know.

We're not talking about giving college seniors that write at a 6th grade level passing grades(which I've seen first hand at OSU) or turning a blind eye to the $100 handshakes from the boosters.  We're not talking about cops giving warnings for DUI's, drunk and disorderly's, and dimebags.  

We're talking about a guy who covered up attempted murder, spousal abuse, had 30+ arrests in 6 years in his program, flubbed drug tests, etc., etc.  That doesn't happen everywhere.

It's mind blowing that anyone would try to argue that anyone involved with that is being held to a higher standard.  People aren't holding Meyer to a higher standard because they hate OSU.  People are holding him to a lower standard because they love OSU.  

[Fullrock]

One thing you can always count on from the Ohio State homers is you're just a hater if you criticize anything that's remotely affiliated with the program, no matter how right you are. It has become as bad as Steelers fans "6 rings" comments to everything.