PFF ranks Bengals receiving corps #11

[*jason*]

(05-20-2020, 07:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's almost as if they feel like Joe and Gio aren't threats to catch the ball and gain yardage..

They must've watched one of our games...

We all know they can, but they don't. So they are nothing more than threats outta the backfield. They certainly aren't factors in the passing game.

[Destro]

It is because we have so many question marks, for each guy, so #11 seems fair. Beats being in the bottom 11 teams. There's also a lot of potential to being an air show in Cincinnati, so we shall see.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-20-2020, 10:12 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I agree it's mostly on Taylor, but Taylor is still controlling playcalling duty in 2020 so there's no reason to expect it to improve.

Hmm, to the best of my football knowledge, RBs can turn into receiving targets on a very high percentage of passing plays called.  At some point, you have to question weather the QB was too busy staring down field, in order to see the potential YAC in throwing short to the RB.  

[motoarch]

There is huge gap between potential and production.

The Bengals didn't produce. Mixon an gio should be threats out of the back field but weren't. None of our TE have shown they are true threats and green and Ross can't stay on the field. Some of you think Tate has a high ceiling, but does he? We don't really know yet.

Higgens hasn't taken a pro snap yet so who knows what he'll do.

That leaves Boyd as the only real consistent producer.

Putting them at 11 was a gift.

If they meet their potential this year they should be much higher.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-20-2020, 10:56 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hmm, to the best of my football knowledge, RBs can turn into receiving targets on a very high percentage of passing plays called.  At some point, you have to question weather the QB was too busy staring down field, in order to see the potential YAC in throwing short to the RB.  

Not if the OC has assigned them to pass block because Trey Hopkins is your best OL.

I admittedly don't know the numbers for how often the Bengals used a RB to block on passing plays compared to other teams, though.

[BURROWorBUST]

(05-20-2020, 08:02 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Lions @ 6 and the Falcons @ 13???

Julio Jones and Calvin Ridley makes the Lions duo of Kenny Galladay and Marvin Jones look like they're running out Jim Abbott and Rocky Dennis from Mask as their 1/2.

I really find it hard to believe that Danny Amendola in the slot, and/or slightly better receiving backs is going to elevate them that far ahead.  And the Falcons did replace Hooper with Hayden Hurst who looks to at least be a competent option at TE.  It's not like he's Daniel Coates.

And as much as it pains me to say this, the Browns are way too low on this list.  That piece of human garbage Odell Beckham and Jarvis Landy matches up with any duo in the league. They just signed Austin Hooper and still have Njoku too.  And Kareem Hunt is a pretty good receiving back.

To be completely honest, I find it hard to argue they shouldn't be in the top 3.  I mean, you can knock that midget they have at QB, or that city is a dumpster of sadness and smells like a giant Arby's, but there's no way their receiving options are that low.

I had blocked stone hands from my memory. Worst Bengals TE ever. 

[BURROWorBUST]

(05-20-2020, 10:38 PM)jason Wrote: They must've watched one of our games...

We all know they can, but they don't. So they are nothing more than threats outta the backfield. They certainly aren't factors in the passing game.

True, but Dalton couldn't throw a screen pass or a swing pass to save his life. He had his strengths, but the short game was not one of them. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-20-2020, 11:03 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Not if the OC has assigned them to pass block because Trey Hopkins is your best OL.

I admittedly don't know the numbers for how often the Bengals used a RB to block on passing plays compared to other teams, though.

Gio probably does a lot more blocking than Mixon I would guess. Hopefully we see this elite blocking Sample was touted for soon, too...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-20-2020, 11:08 PM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: I had blocked stone hands from my memory. Worst Bengals TE ever. 

Idk...Chase Coffman was pretty awful.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-20-2020, 11:10 PM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: True, but Dalton couldn't throw a screen pass or a swing pass to save his life. He had his strengths, but the short game was not one of them. 

That and having so many passes batted down were the most frustrating parts of his game.

[sandwedge]

(05-20-2020, 10:12 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I don't disagree with any of you three on this. Gio and Mixon CAN be a potent receiving threat. Potential and reality are two different things, though.

I agree it's mostly on Taylor, but Taylor is still controlling playcalling duty in 2020 so there's no reason to expect it to improve. Doubly so since they are hopefully getting AJ back and adding a 2nd round WR. If the RBs can't get targets in Taylor's offense when there's a bad WR group, I doubt they get significantly more with a better WR group.

Even with both of their 2019 receiving yards combined, there were still 5 RBs who had more yards on their own, and no doubt that number would increase quite a bit if you did RB duos. Gio and Mixon only combined for 521 yards receiving in 2019. In 2013, Gio had 514 receiving yards on his own.

Why don't you expect the play calling to be better?

[*jason*]

(05-20-2020, 11:10 PM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: True, but Dalton couldn't throw a screen pass or a swing pass to save his life. He had his strengths, but the short game was not one of them. 

I'm not gonna lie... I've seen defenders misuse Gio's ribs more than once in those situations. I bet he hated it when those plays were called.

[Essex Johnson]

(05-20-2020, 09:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Could be because the QB was garbage and still with had 2 RBs in the top 35 of a 32 team league. To suggest Joe and Gio are not threats out of the backfield is silly. 

TE's are terrible 

But we only had a garbage QB for 3 games.. so that does not work.. the real problem was not enough targets for the RBs.. Mixon only had 45 targets all season... Play calling was a major factor

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-20-2020, 10:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: These ratings are usually based on potential. Just look at the team ranked just above the Bengals. 

Problem is maybe they don't believe in that potential anymore? 

It's been 3 years and Mixon has still never broken 300 yards receiving in a year, and Gio went from a 500 yard catcher, to a 400 yard catcher, to a 300 yard catcher, to now a 200 yard catcher. He's 29 now and he went from 9 yards per catch his first 5 seasons to 7 yards per catch the last two. He can still be a good receiving option out of the backfield, but his peak is obviously over.

Between Mixon and Gio combined, the longest reception they have had over the last two years is 35 yards. That's out of 143 catches. It's not a small sample size. The NFL is very much a "what have you done lately" league.

(05-20-2020, 11:17 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Why don't you expect the play calling to be better?

Because Zac Taylor was a terrible OC in College and now he's been a terrible OC in the NFL. He has never run a successful offense before. Or even a mediocre one.

Sometimes you have to just accept a guy's ceiling is as a QB Coach.... and even then a different QB Coach/OC other than him managed to make Ryan Tannehill have a breakout Pro Bowl/Comeback Player/Passing Rating Leader season. (You might want to point at Jared Goff as a Taylor success, but Goff was a Pro Bowler in 2017, and Taylor only became the QB Coach for him in 2018.)

[Sled21]

They can rank our team as low as they want. It'll just make is smart all the more when they come out and trounce all the darling teams....

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-20-2020, 07:05 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: "Unlike most situations highly drafted quarterbacks find themselves in, Joe Burrow will actually have weapons to throw to in Cincinnati next season. A.J. Green has struggled to stay healthy of late, but he is one of the game’s elite when he’s at 100 percent — he has recorded grades of 80.0 or higher in each season he has played in since 2012. Tyler Boyd, Tee Higgins and John Ross form a strong supporting cast, as well, and all bring their own strengths to the table. The big question with Cincinnati’s offense is the offensive line, but if that group can manage to hold up, Burrow could impress with this receiving corps early in his career."

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2020-nfl-season-receiving-corps-rankings

When I saw the teams at the top, I was puzzled.  Then I realized that they were talking about "receiving corps", including TEs.  Otherwise, no f'n way is Tampa #1...they still shouldn't be. 

They even make a comment about the offensive line.  Ok, is it receiving corps or offense?  

I think they have Cincy about right given the lack of elite talent at TE.  Maybe Sample shows he is worthy of his second round billing....one can hope.  But still:  the Bills are suddenly one of the best because they added Diggs?  The Lions?  Kenny Golladay is a stud in the making, but no way do I take him, Marvin Jones, and Amendola as a better threesome than Green, Ross, and Boyd.  Even with Hockenson.  The Chargers is a huge joke.  Keenan Allen and a RB?  Ok, if we are going to include RBs, we have two of the best receiving backs in the league with Mixon and Bernard...the Bengals have just not used them as receivers enough (I think that is changing).  The Panthers?  Seriously?  Just because of CMC? 

On the flip side, teams with underrated receiving corps:  Denver has quietly added a lot of talent on both sides of the ball.  They could surprise this year if Lock can take another step.  The Cardinals are loaded now with the addition of Hopkins, the ever-steady LFitz, and I think Isabella takes a big step in year 2.  The 49ers will have a lot of chances on offense due to their amazing defense, and adding Aiyuk to Kittle and Samuel will be a tough corps.  Lastly, I think pairing old man Rivers with one of the best offensive lines in the league will pay dividends to the likes of Hilton, Campbell, Pascal, and the addition of Michael Pittman.  

Lastly, it must have really butthurt Florio to see his site label his steelers below the Bengals in ANYTHING.  Suck it, douchebag.  

[Wes Mantooth]

(05-21-2020, 10:33 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: When I saw the teams at the top, I was puzzled.  Then I realized that they were talking about "receiving corps", including TEs.  Otherwise, no f'n way is Tampa #1...they still shouldn't be. 

 

I mean, it's not that crazy to have them at #1 in either scenario, is it? And if you're adamant they're not, how are they not 2? 

Receivers Alone...

Mike Evans and Chris Godwin combined for just shy of 2,500 yards and 17 TD's last season.  Both finished in the top 15 in the league in yardage. And Even more remarkable, they accomplished this with Evans missing 3 games, and Godwin missing 2.  If you look at their game logs their production was off the charts good. 

I think you'd be lying to yourself if you said you could come with 3 stronger duos than those two.


Group as a whole...


This is what really seperates them.  When you couple that duo above, whether you rank them at 1, or 2, or 3, with their tight ends they really stand out.

Their TE group is as follows... Rob Gronkowski, OJ Howard, Cameron Brate.

That is a ridiculous group of Tight Ends.  Even before the addition of Gronk, Howard and Brate were an above average group.  People forget that Howard was a first round pick that had all the signs of developing into an elite talent before he fell off last year.  He had a pretty damn good second season that was cut short by injury (565 yards, 5 TD's in only 9.5 games.

Cameron Brate is no slouch either.  As a 3rd TE he's unbelieveable, and better than anyone we have.  The man posted a 660 yard 8 TD season in which he only started 10 games. Proving not to be a one off, he followed it up with a 591 yard, 6 TD season in which he started only 6 games.  These are monster numbers for a Tight End who shares duties.

Then you throw in a 22 year old Ronald Jones, who was a HIGH 2nd round pick at running back, who posted a respectable 31 catches and 309 yards, in a running back by committee, to round out the group. It's now his job to take over as Peyton Barber is gone.

Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Rob Gronkowski... That's one heckuva a trio.  Can you name one better?  Two better?  Cuz I can't.

They're so damn loaded with weapons I have to type them out one more time just to further drive home the point:

Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Rob Gronkowski
OJ Howard
Cameron Brate
Ronald Jones II

I really don't understand how you think it's so strange to have this group at the top.  And it's even more strange to say "there's no f'n way" their receivers aren't #1, as if it's such a far off rank.  I'd love to see you list out better groups and your reasoning. Cuz this is a treasure trove of weapons.

[fredtoast]

(05-20-2020, 11:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: That and having so many passes batted down were the most frustrating parts of his game.

Dalton is generally no where near the top of the league in passed batted down.

Another case of fans seeing something happen to their own QB but not noticing when it happens to opponents.  Kind of like thinking that every other QB does not struggle to complete deep passes.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-21-2020, 11:39 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I mean, it's not that crazy to have them at #1 in either scenario, is it?  And if you're adamant they're not, how are they not 2? 

Receivers Alone...

Mike Evans and Chris Godwin combined for just shy of 2,500 yards and 17 TD's last season.  Both finished in the top 15 in the league in yardage. And Even more remarkable, they accomplished this with Evans missing 3 games, and Godwin missing 2.  If you look at their game logs their production was off the charts good. 

I think you'd be lying to yourself if you said you could come with 3 stronger duos than those two.


Group as a whole...


This is what really seperates them.  When you couple that duo above, whether you rank them at 1, or 2, or 3, with their tight ends they really stand out.

Their TE group is as follows... Rob Gronkowski, OJ Howard, Cameron Brate.

That is a ridiculous group of Tight Ends.  Even before the addition of Gronk, Howard and Brate were an above average group.  People forget that Howard was a first round pick that had all the signs of developing into an elite talent before he fell off last year.  He had a pretty damn good second season that was cut short by injury (565 yards, 5 TD's in only 9.5 games.

Cameron Brate is no slouch either.  As a 3rd TE he's unbelieveable, and better than anyone we have.  The man posted a 660 yard 8 TD season in which he only started 10 games. Proving not to be a one off, he followed it up with a 591 yard, 6 TD season in which he started only 6 games.  These are monster numbers for a Tight End who shares duties.

Then you throw in a 22 year old Ronald Jones, who was a HIGH 2nd round pick at running back, who posted a respectable 31 catches and 309 yards, in a running back by committee, to round out the group. It's now his job to take over as Peyton Barber is gone.

Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Rob Gronkowski... That's one heckuva a trio.  Can you name one better?  Two better?  Cuz I can't.

They're so damn loaded with weapons I have to type them out one more time just to further drive home the point:

Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Rob Gronkowski
OJ Howard
Cameron Brate
Ronald Jones II

I really don't understand how you think it's so strange to have this group at the top.  And it's even more strange to say "there's no f'n way" their receivers aren't #1, as if it's such a far off rank.  I'd love to see you list out better groups and your reasoning. Cuz this is a treasure trove of weapons.

Three stronger duos than Goodwin and Evans?  Heck, I think Cleveland has a better duo with OBJ and Landry.  You have to consider (have no idea how to find the breakdowns) that Tampa was behind in a lot of games and they were getting prevent defenses allowing them to load up underneath.  They also had no running game.  Stats don't equal talent.  You could say they suffered from erratic QB play, but they sure as hell didn't lack for targets.  In 2018, Godwin had something like 850 yards.  They have hardly been as consistent as OBJ and Landry.  Ditto Buffalo with Brown and now Diggs.  Heck, I would sure take Green and Boyd over them as well.  

The TE argument?  Howard caught, what...34 balls in each of the last two seasons?  CJ Uzomah beat that!  Gronk was an elite TE.  I have no idea what he will be now...he lost a ton of weight and his body has taken a pounding.  Huge unknown.  

And who was their RB that was a receiving threat?  

The Dallas cowboys are more loaded with receiving options than Tampa.  They have Cooper, Gallup, and the rookie CeeDee Lamb and an underrated receiving back in Ezekiel Elliot.  

We will see how Tampa fares with an old Gronk and ageless Brady.  One thing is for sure...they won't be getting the help of the refs in Tampa.  

[Essex Johnson]

(05-21-2020, 12:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton is generally no where near the top of the league in passed batted down.

Another case of fans seeing something happen to their own QB but not noticing when it happens to opponents.  Kind of like thinking that every other QB does not struggle to complete deep passes.

So true.. many fans tend to see their team and player performance with blinders on to other teams...