Turner on the O-line

[SunsetBengal]

(05-20-2020, 09:09 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Then why the victim blaming.

You sound like the guys who say "I am not saying rape is okay, but she was wearing a short skirt and drinking a lot".

The knuckle draggers who always bring up some reason to blame the victim make it tough for all men.  Or the guys who think any type of mental abuse is okay on a football team.  Or guys who act like bragging about sexual assault is okay if it is "locker room talk".

This type of talk is what makes single mothers want to keep their sons from playing football, and it is all BS.

C'mon man, that's not exactly an apples to apples analogy..

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

While I believe in second chances, Turner is not a guy I have a high opinion of. Either as a good coach or a good person. If there was 1 coaching change I could make, it would be him.

More than any other sport, you are going to get a lot of homophobes in football. Players, coaches, FO, fans. Sport in general runs behind society in this regard, and football behind all other team sports (though soccer in Europe could be worse, depending on the country).

In terms of this board, some of it is tribal. Turner is our coach. Fans will generally rally behind our guys. Nothing unusual there.

It would be a shame for a guys career to get ruined over something that COULD be overblown. But I am not to sympathetic to Turner.

[Sled21]

If Turner puts out a good O-line this year that Joe and Gio can run behind, and can protect Burrow, just watch how many people jump on the Turner bandwagon.

[fredtoast]

(05-20-2020, 02:33 PM)Sled21 Wrote: If Turner puts out a good O-line this year that Joe and Gio can run behind, and can protect Burrow, just watch how many people jump on the Turner bandwagon.

I complained as much as anyone when we hired him.  But now that he is here I am going to judge him on how he coaches.  He needs to be on a REAL SHORT LEASH as far as anymore stupid off field bullshit, but right now he is the ONLY new coach on the staff that has shown he is competent.

[Sled21]

(05-20-2020, 03:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I complained as much as anyone when we hired him.  But now that he is here I am going to judge him on how he coaches.  He needs to be on a REAL SHORT LEASH as far as anymore stupid off fild bullshit, but right now he is the ONLY new coach on the staff that has shown he is competent.

That's fair.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(05-19-2020, 08:07 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Turner had the only unit to improve during the season last year. I liked it when we hired him, I like it now.

I didn't like the hire. Not impressed with his resume and I felt like he got the job because he's a Zac guy and not a good oline coach. I saw the improvement last year but it felt more like a "Throw a bunch of stuff against the wall and something will stick" scenario,  rather then Turner coaching guys up to improvement. 

[Sled21]

(05-21-2020, 10:05 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: I didn't like the hire. Not impressed with his resume and I felt like he got the job because he's a Zac guy and not a good oline coach. I saw the improvement last year but it felt more like a "Throw a bunch of stuff against the wall and something will stick" scenario,  rather then Turner coaching guys up to improvement. 

I guess we'll see this year....

[Wes Mantooth]

(05-19-2020, 05:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Turner gave every O-lineman an inflatable love doll for Christmas.  All of them got females except Martin who got a male doll.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-21-2020, 10:05 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: I didn't like the hire. Not impressed with his resume and I felt like he got the job because he's a Zac guy and not a good oline coach. I saw the improvement last year but it felt more like a "Throw a bunch of stuff against the wall and something will stick" scenario,  rather then Turner coaching guys up to improvement. 

I'm not sure that I agree with that take.  Seemed more like a calculated move to better utilize the talent they had available, rather than continuing than continuing forward with a scheme that clearly wasn't working.  I'm pretty sure that the decision was made prior to the bye week, that they were going to use that time specifically, to install the new blocking scheme.

[fredtoast]

(05-21-2020, 10:05 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote:  it felt more like a "Throw a bunch of stuff against the wall and something will stick" scenario,  rather then Turner coaching guys up to improvement. 

They only changed the blocking scheme ONCE.  They needed the extra week to do it so they waited until the bye week.

The improvement was INCREDIBLE.

I don't know if the decision to change was Turner's, but he was the one who coached up the players to change

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-21-2020, 11:33 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not sure that I agree with that take.  Seemed more like a calculated move to better utilize the talent they had available, rather than continuing than continuing forward with a scheme that clearly wasn't working.  I'm pretty sure that the decision was made prior to the bye week, that they were going to use that time specifically, to install the new blocking scheme.

(05-21-2020, 12:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: They only changed the blocking scheme ONCE.  They needed the extra week to do it so they waited until the bye week.

The improvement was INCREDIBLE.

I don't know if the decision to change was Turner's, but he was the one who coached up the players to change

What these guys said. Lets not forget that Turner didn't have the most talented players to work with either...

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

Let's not forget that lots of scheme changes will "work" because they're by definition different from what we'd put on tape all year. I'm not saying it won't continue to work, only that we just don't know yet.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-22-2020, 01:38 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Let's not forget that lots of scheme changes will "work" because they're by definition different from what we'd put on tape all year. I'm not saying it won't continue to work, only that we just don't know yet.

Still should work a lot better than that scheme we were running the first half of the season last year is all I know.

[fredtoast]

(05-22-2020, 01:38 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Let's not forget that lots of scheme changes will "work" because they're by definition different from what we'd put on tape all year. I'm not saying it won't continue to work, only that we just don't know yet.

Then that means the coaches deserve even more credit because it means they found a way for untalented players to overachieve. 

The first time we played the Stealers last year they ran all over us using gadget WR sweeps and stuff like that.  It would not have worked for an entire season, but I give ther coaches a lot of credit for finding a way to win that game.  That is what good coaches do when they don't have enough talent.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(05-22-2020, 01:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then that means the coaches deserve even more credit because it means they found a way for untalented players to overachieve. 

The first time we played the Stealers last year they ran all over us using gadget WR sweeps and stuff like that.  It would not have worked for an entire season, but I give ther coaches a lot of credit for finding a way to win that game.  That is what good coaches do when they don't have enough talent.

I wasn't taking anything away from the coaches. I was only saying that we don't know for sure that it will transition to this year given that we haven't really added significant talent to the OL this year (I like Adeniji but I don't see him contributing in 2020). 

[fredtoast]

(05-22-2020, 02:03 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: I wasn't taking anything away from the coaches. I was only saying that we don't know for sure that it will transition to this year given that we haven't really added significant talent to the OL this year (I like Adeniji but I don't see him contributing in 2020). 

I agree.

I still remember in 2008 when the Dolphin coaches were geniuses for using the Wildcat scheme to rank #12 in offense and win 11 games.

In the 11 years since then they have one winning season and their offense has never ranked higher than #14.

[Circleville Guy]

Can anyone look at that 0line roster and really think that it’s anything better than bottom1/4 in the league? Maybe bottom 1/3?

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(05-22-2020, 02:23 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Can anyone look at that 0line roster and really think that it’s anything better than bottom1/4 in the league? Maybe bottom 1/3?

No, for 2 reasons:

1. I'm not cynical in the slightest.
2. TRULY, 3 spots are complete unknowns, 2 if Hart starts at RT.

Jonah could come in day 1 and literally be a top 5 LT in the league (and I sure as hell hope so, but we'll see) and Fred could halve all of Hart's pressure and penalty numbers, while being a better run blocker.

X-man is another guy whom we don't know how things will shake up; if we go for the proven 2 (3 if Hart starts), then I would say yes, bottom 3rd in the league, but as they stand right now, they are a wildcard.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(05-22-2020, 02:23 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Can anyone look at that 0line roster and really think that it’s anything better than bottom1/4 in the league? Maybe bottom 1/3?

Its one of the worst olines in the league. I saw improvement but it wasn't a big improvement like people are claiming. Mixon was still getting a meager 3ypc, and Andy was still under duress most of the time. 

[fredtoast]

(05-22-2020, 03:20 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: I saw improvement but it wasn't a big improvement like people are claiming. Mixon was still getting a meager 3ypc, 

Over the final 8 games the Bengals were n the top half of the league in yards per carry and Mixon averaged over 4.6.

In rushing yards we went from 32nd in the first 8 games to 6th over the final 8 games.