Nascar bans Confederate flags

[magikod]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/10/us/nascar-bans-confederate-flag-spt-trnd/index.html

Quote:(CNN)On Monday, the only full-time African American driver in NASCAR's Cup Series called for the auto racing body to ban Confederate flags from its events. Two days later, his dream came true.

"The presence of the Confederate flag at NASCAR events runs contrary to our commitment to providing a welcoming and inclusive environment for all fans, our competitors and our industry," NASCAR said in a statement on its website hours ahead of its race Wednesday night in Martinsville, Virginia.

What are your thoughts?

[HarleyDog]

Doesnt really affect me because the flag has no meaning for a guy who grew up in the north. However, many southerners love that flag. Kind of sad really. There will be some boycotting of NASCAR now.

[samhain]

I don't exactly frequent NASCAR forums or communities, but I'm a little surprised that there's not a bit more backlash right now.

[HarleyDog]

(06-12-2020, 02:31 PM)samhain Wrote: I don't exactly frequent NASCAR forums or communities, but I'm a little surprised that there's not a bit more backlash right now.

Backlash right now would be looked at as racist fans trying to hold on to their flag which would not be true at all. Yet that's how the MSM would twist it.

[Millhouse]

There is no place for that flag to fly anywhere in the world we live in today. Fortunately the North won the war that culminated with fixing the greatest mistake by the founding fathers by freeing the slaves. Unfortunately the South won the aftermath of the war for about 100 years with legalized segregation, the KKK, Jim Crow laws, etc. And they made sure to remind the black population of their extreme racism of past and present with things such as Confederate monuments in public areas and flying the Stars and Bars wherever they could, even on government buildings.

So yeah, better late than never to rid our society of this symbol of a four year old confederacy with slavery as the main cornerstone. It should have been banned back in 1865 imo, like how Germany has banned the Nazi flag and such to exist. But very few would have cared back then and over the decades since the Civil War as the country was full of racism, legalized or not.

[samhain]

(06-13-2020, 02:09 AM)Millhouse Wrote: There is no place for that flag to fly anywhere in the world we live in today. Fortunately the North won the war that culminated with fixing the greatest mistake by the founding fathers by freeing the slaves. Unfortunately the South won the aftermath of the war for about 100 years with legalized segregation, the KKK, Jim Crow laws, etc. And they made sure to remind the black population of their extreme racism of past and present with things such as Confederate monuments in public areas and flying the Stars and Bars wherever they could, even on government buildings.

So yeah, better late than never to rid our society of this symbol of a four year old confederacy with slavery as the main cornerstone. It should have been banned back in 1865 imo, like how Germany has banned the Nazi flag and such to exist. But very few would have cared back then and over the decades since the Civil War as the country was full of racism, legalized or not.

IDK, man.  I give some credence to the idea that people have roots to the flag that didn't necessarily have awful intentions.  Unfortunately, any dignity that flag may have maintained after the war has been lost to the many ******** that fly it now as a symbol of white grievance.  How many white nationalist rallies or events do you se where that flag isn't present?  What kinds of people do you see wearing it in public?  Are they people that look like they are anything other than racist and looking to let you know without saying it outright?  Usually, I'd say yes.

The flag went from a symbol of the confederacy to basically a sign indicating, as DL Hughley once said : "We still hate blacks and gays".  It's like the swastika in a way.  Originally it was a Hindu symbol of luck.  Not so much anymore.  A new meaning has dominated the original to the point where it's no longer what people associate with it.

I say take the treason rag and burn it like Sherman did Atlanta.  To paraphrase the prez: I like flags that don't get their asses kicked in civil wars.

[HarleyDog]

(06-13-2020, 03:32 PM)samhain Wrote: IDK, man.  I give some credence to the idea that people have roots to the flag that didn't necessarily have awful intentions.  Unfortunately, any dignity that flag may have maintained after the war has been lost to the many ******** that fly it now as a symbol of white grievance.  How many white nationalist rallies or events do you se where that flag isn't present?  What kinds of people do you see wearing it in public?  Are they people that look like they are anything other than racist and looking to let you know without saying it outright?  Usually, I'd say yes.

The flag went from a symbol of the confederacy to basically a sign indicating, as DL Hughley once said : "We still hate blacks and gays".  It's like the swastika in a way.  Originally it was a Hindu symbol of luck.  Not so much anymore.  A new meaning has dominated the original to the point where it's no longer what people associate with it.

I say take the treason rag and burn it like Sherman did Atlanta.  To paraphrase the prez: I like flags that don't get their asses kicked in civil wars.

Good post and I understand where your getting at. A POV I guess I never looked at before. Good job.


Does this mean I can't ever watch Dukes of Hazard reruns on TV? A car named General Lee w/a confederate flag on top. Prolly not.

[*jason*]

(06-12-2020, 02:31 PM)samhain Wrote: I don't exactly frequent NASCAR forums or communities, but I'm a little surprised that there's not a bit more backlash right now.

They don't care... They don't have to take them off of their trucks. Hell they already had to endure the removal of Winston from sponsorship of the sport.

[HarleyDog]

(06-13-2020, 04:41 PM)jason Wrote: They don't care... They don't have to take them off of their trucks. Hell they already had to endure the removal of Winston from sponsorship of the sport.

Yep. Went from Winston to Nextel I think.

[*jason*]

(06-13-2020, 02:09 AM)Millhouse Wrote: There is no place for that flag to fly anywhere in the world we live in today. Fortunately the North won the war that culminated with fixing the greatest mistake by the founding fathers by freeing the slaves. Unfortunately the South won the aftermath of the war for about 100 years with legalized segregation, the KKK, Jim Crow laws, etc. And they made sure to remind the black population of their extreme racism of past and present with things such as Confederate monuments in public areas and flying the Stars and Bars wherever they could, even on government buildings.

So yeah, better late than never to rid our society of this symbol of a four year old confederacy with slavery as the main cornerstone. It should have been banned back in 1865 imo, like how Germany has banned the Nazi flag and such to exist. But very few would have cared back then and over the decades since the Civil War as the country was full of racism, legalized or not.

It wasn't banned back then for the same reason we didn't put Robert E. Lee or anyone else on trial. The idea was to heal the nation (imagine that). They were allowed to keep their land, guns, horses... All of it. Confederate soldiers are classified as US veterans. I don't really care about that flag, but we're better than Germany (at least for most of my life I thought so). We don't need to ban symbols from society. If NASCAR doesn't want it there, cool... If some rednecks wanna fly it on their porch, that's cool too.

[HarleyDog]

(06-13-2020, 05:00 PM)jason Wrote: It wasn't banned back then for the same reason we didn't put Robert E. Lee or anyone else on trial. The idea was to heal the nation (imagine that). They were allowed to keep their land, guns, horses... All of it. Confederate soldiers are classified as US veterans. I don't really care about that flag, but we're better than Germany (at least for most of my life I thought so). We don't need to ban symbols from society. If NASCAR doesn't want it there, cool... If some rednecks wanna fly it on their porch, that's cool too.

We have become a selfish society where only our personal opinion matters. Diversity is no longer accepted and entitlement is our biggest enemy.

[UKWhoDey]

As a Southerner, yeah, it bothers me. This cancel culture is ridiculous. Blacks fought for the Confederacy and owned slaves. There were riots in New York over the draft and the influx of slaves. Lets not pretend this issue was a stark and clear cut one. Hopefully we all are glad it resulted in the end of slavery. We are still fighting today to move forward. But as a Southerner who holds zero ill will towards anyone until they give me a reason to, the Confeeerate flag is simply a way of showing pride in beaing a Southerner. It doesnt translate for you yanks, Nd I absolutely understand why a lot of blacks dont like it. But many of them also understand not every white guy who has that displayed is some racist Klan member. Unfortunately those jackasses co-opted it as a racist symbol, so its hard to come to a resolution or a compromise on the issue until someone shuts those jackasses up.

To me, it's no different than our "S-E-C" chants during football season. There's pride in being from the South, the Confederate flag is an extension of that. Its a complicated history. But dont automatically judge a book by its cover and assume its just some backwards redneck displaying it. The North was responsible for plenty of unspeakable acts and atrocities as well, but since the winners write the history books they get a pass.

The bottom line is this cancel culture and PC b.s. has gone so absurdly overboard. Middle America needs to step up and speak out and say enough.

[samhain]

(06-13-2020, 03:45 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Good post and I understand where your getting at. A POV I guess I never looked at before. Good job.


Does this mean I can't ever watch Dukes of Hazard reruns on TV? A car named General Lee w/a confederate flag on top. Prolly not.

I watched the Dukes as well, and my maternal grandmother who died before I was born was partial to it (the flag, I mean).  She was an orphan who grew up in four or five different orphanages between New Orleans and Birmingham before she joined the Army.  My grandpa, who was a pharmacist in Covington during the 60's and 70's, was close to a lot of black people in the community, and had them over to his house for cookouts frequently.  However, in the basement, even long after grandma Alene was gone, the flag hung next to his pantry/photgraphy room above the CCM rowing machine.  I remember it like yesterday.  He certainly didn't view it as a symbol of hate, but also had no real attachment to it beyond a woman he met in the army and subsequently married.  

From a historical standpoint, it's worth remembering.  I have no problem seeing it in museums or textbooks.

Kind of makes you wonder, though.  Lots of historical figures that we view as significant or great today killed a shit ton of people.  Enslaved them, too, and sometimes on the basis or race and nationality.  I don't want to see the things they did erased from the record book, good or bad, because it serves as a lesson.  

[J24]

As a guy who grew up in the south but comes from a Northern family. I can honestly say I don't get the fascination with the Confederate flag or love affair with the Confederate war heroes. With that being said it's a big deal to a lot of white southerners and that's NASCAR's main audience so this won't end well for them.
To me if you're against corporate censorship and you're for the banning of the flag you are full of crap. If you're for corporate censorship ( like Colin Kaepernick in the NFL) and against this then you are full of crap.

[HarleyDog]

3

[*jason*]

(06-13-2020, 08:02 PM)J24 Wrote: As a guy who grew up in the south but comes from a Northern family. I can honestly say I don't get the fascination with the Confederate flag or love affair with the Confederate war heroes. With that being said it's a big deal to a lot of white southerners and that's NASCAR's main audience so this won't end well for them.
To me if you're against corporate censorship and you're for the banning of the flag you are full of crap. If you're for corporate censorship ( like Colin Kaepernick in the NFL) and against this then you are full of crap.

I'm sure there are a million reasons that some southerners love that flag. One of them is very misunderstood in modern times. The average soldier that spilled his blood in that war never owned a slave, and didn't know anyone who did. Most of them never ventured more than 20 miles from where they grew up (until the war), and most likely never saw a slave before that. It's just like it is today... The little man fights the big man's wars. They weren't fighting for slavery. They were fighting to defend what little they had from large foraging armies that had invaded where they lived. It changes as we get farther and farther away, but someone my age may have had their great great grand pappy die in that war. It's also sorta ironic that a guy who grew up in the south, but recently moved to Minnesota and was killed by a cop there started all of this.

I get it... The Klan, neo Nazis, and various other shitheads have waved that flag over the years. It's been used to intimidate, but it's really just a battle flag that a certain group of Americans used during our history. I don't think it has any place on statehouses or anything like that, but "banning" it does nothing to solve any social problems we have in this society. I don't know how we solve the problem, or if there is even a solution at all... But I know that symbolism isn't going to do it.

[*jason*]

(06-13-2020, 08:22 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: 3

Haha... Pour out a lil liquor on the pavement.

[samhain]

(06-13-2020, 11:58 PM)jason Wrote: I'm sure there are a million reasons that some southerners love that flag. One of them is very misunderstood in modern times. The average soldier that spilled his blood in that war never owned a slave, and didn't know anyone who did. Most of them never ventured more than 20 miles from where they grew up (until the war), and most likely never saw a slave before that. It's just like it is today... The little man fights the big man's wars. They weren't fighting for slavery. They were fighting to defend what little they had from large foraging armies that had invaded where they lived. It changes as we get farther and farther away, but someone my age may have had their great great grand pappy die in that war. It's also sorta ironic that a guy who grew up in the south, but recently moved to Minnesota and was killed by a cop there started all of this.

I get it... The Klan, neo Nazis, and various other shitheads have waved that flag over the years. It's been used to intimidate, but it's really just a battle flag that a certain group of Americans used during our history. I don't think it has any place on statehouses or anything like that, but "banning" it does nothing to solve any social problems we have in this society. I don't know how we solve the problem, or if there is even a solution at all... But I know that symbolism isn't going to do it.

I sort of agree.  I can't say what it's like to be a black person in America, or how it feels to see that flag on a shirt or bumper sticker.  I know that when I learned about the civil war and slavery, the flag I'd seen in my grandpa's basement as long as I could remember certainly seemed a bit more controversial.  Again, it was a weird juxtaposition, because for his time, my grandpa was extremely liberal considering the community he lived in.  My paternal grandparents didn't have a confederate flag anywhere near them, but objectively were far more racist than he was.  

I'll say this:  I won't miss it.  I definitely have judgements about a person who openly flies it, right or wrong.  That said, it's not quite swastika level judgment.  If I see that flag, I practically wish death on whoever wears or flies it.  I've been raised to believe that it's pure evil, and I was raised by pretty conservative people.  

[UKWhoDey]

(06-14-2020, 03:25 AM)samhain Wrote: I sort of agree.  I can't say what it's like to be a black person in America, or how it feels to see that flag on a shirt or bumper sticker.  I know that when I learned about the civil war and slavery, the flag I'd seen in my grandpa's basement as long as I could remember certainly seemed a bit more controversial.  Again, it was a weird juxtaposition, because for his time, my grandpa was extremely liberal considering the community he lived in.  My paternal grandparents didn't have a confederate flag anywhere near them, but objectively were far more racist than he was.  

I'll say this:  I won't miss it.  I definitely have judgements about a person who openly flies it, right or wrong.  That said, it's not quite swastika level judgment.  If I see that flag, I practically wish death on whoever wears or flies it.  I've been raised to believe that it's pure evil, and I was raised by pretty conservative people.  

And I think you hit the nail on the head for white folks, its how you were raised. As Kentuckian, my dads sode fought for the South, my moms for the North.  I assume most of yall are from Ohio and Indiana. What youre reared upon is different from what we are taught below the Mason Dixon. The reality is for 99% of us Southerners its simply about regional pride.  No other region in this country espouses such pride, which is why none of you understand said fascination.  Southern culture has a lot to be proud of and Ill be damned if we're going to let this modern revionism go unchecked.   The North has every bit as much to answer for as the South but no one wants to have that honest conversation in today's society sadly. 

[*jason*]

(06-14-2020, 03:25 AM)samhain Wrote: I sort of agree.  I can't say what it's like to be a black person in America, or how it feels to see that flag on a shirt or bumper sticker.  I know that when I learned about the civil war and slavery, the flag I'd seen in my grandpa's basement as long as I could remember certainly seemed a bit more controversial.  Again, it was a weird juxtaposition, because for his time, my grandpa was extremely liberal considering the community he lived in.  My paternal grandparents didn't have a confederate flag anywhere near them, but objectively were far more racist than he was.  

I'll say this:  I won't miss it.  I definitely have judgements about a person who openly flies it, right or wrong.  That said, it's not quite swastika level judgment.  If I see that flag, I practically wish death on whoever wears or flies it.  I've been raised to believe that it's pure evil, and I was raised by pretty conservative people.  

Yeah... A swastika makes me wanna spit, and the fact that it's sometimes seen in close proximity to the Confederate flag in this country is the reason I have any negative feelings toward that flag at all. Again; I see why people don't like it, and why some people do.