Lapham interview with Jim Turner

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

If you haven't already, check out the latest Bengals Booth Podcast where Jim Turner is interviewed for almost 40 minutes: https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-booth-podcast-block-party

Turner talks up all his guys, as a coach would during the offseason, but is also pretty forthright and honest. What did you all think were the biggest takeaways?

Here are mine:

1. Maybe we can put the "Fred Johnson is quietly the RT of the future" narrative to rest. Turner even flatly says Johnson has never been a standout and acts like he doesn't care about football. He lauds Johnson's size and intelligence, sure, but competitiveness and will to win are the things ZT has been promoting all along. I did not get the impression he's as high on Johnson as many in the media and this board are. The fact that he says he wanted to take an OL higher than we did in the draft leads me to believe he's not as high on our current talent as he acts.

Also alarming that he told Ben Martin not to teach Johnson any technique going into the Browns game, but I digress.

2. When Lap interviews him he ticks off all the guys he think can contribute, and never mentions Billy Price, at least not until Hoard jumps in at the end to ask about him. He mentions Alex Redmond as a potential starter before Price. The best thing he can say about Price is that he took his demotion well... big deal. I still have hope Price can turn the corner, but this is damning with faint praise.

3. He is extremely high on Mike Jordan, and I think for good reason. I'm bullish on Jordan. Remember he was an early entry junior who never redshirted. He was always supposed to be a project for the future. Forget what Hobson says about Jordan "earning" the starting job... he got it because of injuries to Glenn and Boling's retirement. But as Turner points out, if he'd gone back to school in 2019 where would he have been drafted this year? I think actually pretty high.

[fredtoast]

I think the love for Fred Johnson had more to do with disgust for our current starters than anything Johnson actually did.

Same thing happened with Redmond and especially Christian Westerman when they played a few snaps in a meaningless game at the end of the year. Fans were so desperate for ANY help for our O-line that they grasped at straws.

[Yojimbo]

I listened to this yesterday and got the exact opposite feeling for what Turner thinks of Johnson. I heard him praise Johnson and admire how talented he is having only started football as a junior in high school. The whole “don’t teach him technique” was done to not overload him mentally before his first ever start. Turner wanted Johnson just playing on instinct and talent.

[GreenCornBengal]

Turner and Price’s personalities clash in my opinion. Turners biggest flaw is that he wants his rowdy bunch of troublemakers and once he discredits a guy I think it’s tough to get back into his good graces. Just my opinion, but even if Price improves Turner will find a way to keep him out of the starting lineup.

[Whatever]

(06-29-2020, 12:36 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Turner and Price’s personalities clash in my opinion. Turners biggest flaw is that he wants his rowdy bunch of troublemakers and once he discredits a guy I think it’s tough to get back into his good graces. Just my opinion, but even if Price improves Turner will find a way to keep him out of the starting lineup.

I think Price would be immune to something like that because as a 1st round pick and a home state kid, there would be pressure to start him from Tobin and MB if he were capable.  

[fredtoast]

(06-29-2020, 12:36 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Turner and Price’s personalities clash in my opinion. Turners biggest flaw is that he wants his rowdy bunch of troublemakers and once he discredits a guy I think it’s tough to get back into his good graces. Just my opinion, but even if Price improves Turner will find a way to keep him out of the starting lineup.

I think Turner's wife is attracted to Price and that makes Jim insanely jealous.

Just my opinion, but even if price improves Turner will find a way to keep him out of the starting lineup. 

[fredtoast]

(06-29-2020, 11:32 AM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Also alarming that he told Ben Martin not to teach Johnson any technique going into the Browns game, but I digress.

(06-29-2020, 11:52 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: The whole “don’t teach him technique” was done to not overload him mentally before his first ever start. Turner wanted Johnson just playing on instinct and talent.

I have not listened to theinterview yet, but it could just be that you can't teach a lot of technique in a couple of weeks of regular season practice.

Remenber when Alexander said he would work on a player's (I think maybe Bodine) poor technique in the offseason?

A "technique" used in a sport is a habit that you do without thinking.  I have never played golf, but I have heard that guys ruin their swing by thinking about too many details of the swing. Changing technique usually requires TONS of repetition because it is actually learning a new habit.

And in the regular season most of the time is spent preparing for the strengths and weaknesses of specific opponenets instead of working on fundamentals of technique.  

Or, since I have not actual heard him yet, he might mean something completely different.

It is always interesting to note how different people can get different messages from the same interview.  But I will probably also hear what I want to hear when I listen to it.

[impactplaya]

History is not on the Bengals side when it comes
To Billy Price. Most o-linemen taken in RD 1 that struggle
within their 1st 3 years end up as draft pick failures and never live
Up to their potential.
You can make list starting with Tony Manadrich, Robert Gallery
Jason Smith, Greg Robinson, Danny Watkins , Jake Fisher
Cedric Oghubui, Cameron Irving , etc etc etc

[*Synric*]

Turner said Don't try to teach him technique this week just let him play he's a natural.

As for the questioning his football want to Turner said Johnson comes off like he doesn't care but when you ask him a question he jumps right in with the answer. Also Turner mentioned he was excited about Fred Johnson.

[Dr.Z]

(06-29-2020, 01:38 PM)impactplaya Wrote: History is not on the Bengals side when it comes
To Billy Price. Most o-linemen taken in RD 1 that struggle
within their 1st 3 years end up as draft pick failures and never live
Up to their potential.
You can make list starting with Tony Manadrich, Robert Gallery
Jason Smith, Greg Robinson, Danny Watkins , Jake Fisher
Cedric Oghubui,  Cameron Irving , etc etc et

I pretty much see the point you're making and agree with the premise for the most part.   Just noting that Gallery actually became a decent player once he was moved to guard.    Bobbie Williams (2nd rounder) also became a pretty good starter for us, whom also moved from tackle to guard.   

[fredtoast]

(06-29-2020, 01:38 PM)impactplaya Wrote: History is not on the Bengals side when it comes
To Billy Price. Most o-linemen taken in RD 1 that struggle
within their 1st 3 years end up as draft pick failures and never live
Up to their potential.
You can make list starting with Tony Manadrich, Robert Gallery
Jason Smith, Greg Robinson, Danny Watkins , Jake Fisher
Cedric Oghubui,  Cameron Irving , etc etc etc

Maybe he will be like Robert Gallery who struggle in the NFL until he changed position to OG.

And Andre Smith did nothing his first two seasons, but eventually played at a high level for us.

And how can you forget Alex Wojceichowicz who was the 6th pick in the first round of the 1938 draft.  He only started 16 games over his first two seasons, but he ended up in the HALL OF FAME.  Price has started 2 more games than A-Woj, so he is actually ahead of the Hall of Famers pace.

[Essex Johnson]

(06-29-2020, 12:36 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Turner and Price’s personalities clash in my opinion. Turners biggest flaw is that he wants his rowdy bunch of troublemakers and once he discredits a guy I think it’s tough to get back into his good graces. Just my opinion, but even if Price improves Turner will find a way to keep him out of the starting lineup.

The main problem with your post is Taylor benched Price not Turner

[Yojimbo]

(06-29-2020, 01:39 PM)Synric Wrote: Turner said Don't try to teach him technique this week just let him play he's a natural.

As for the questioning his football want to Turner said Johnson comes off like he doesn't care but when you ask him a question he jumps right in with the answer. Also Turner mentioned he was excited about Fred Johnson.

Same as I heard. Nothing but praise for Johnson from Turner. Pretty sure you can hear Turner jerking it while he talked about Johnson’s size and ability to move.

[Big Boss]

I do not like this guy.

[3wt]

(06-29-2020, 11:52 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: I listened to this yesterday and got the exact opposite feeling for what Turner thinks of Johnson. I heard him praise Johnson and admire how talented he is having only started football as a junior in high school. The whole “don’t teach him technique” was done to not overload him mentally before his first ever start. Turner wanted Johnson just playing on instinct and talent.

With you on this Yojimbo.   He seemed tremendously high on Johnson.   He seemed very impressed with his intelligence.   Said players come in all types of personalities.  Said he appears like he's not tracking but he definitely is and is always ready with the right answer.


Also, massively high on Adeniji.  Said he was really high on his film before sitting down with him, then he reminded him of Jonah Williams in terms of his intelligence and drive.

Hope Turner's right about all this...

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Adeniji I think is the wild card man. This guy is versatile and smart.

Think both Jordan and Adeniji could be good soon. Don't know much about Fred Johnson but Turner seems to be high
on him. With Jonah coming in, Trey Hop continuing to grow into a top Center I see us improving big time on the OL
soon. Love the XSF pick and the way the OL improved late last season with the change up in scheme that Turner made.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(06-29-2020, 02:34 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Same as I heard. Nothing but praise for Johnson from Turner. Pretty sure you can hear Turner jerking it while he talked about Johnson’s size and ability to move.

Ok, so that seems to be the dominant reaction to my reaction. But let's look at this in context. He says some nice things, but he says nice things about EVERY lineman he has. You have to take that with a grain of salt and read between the lines (to mix some metaphors). I mean by that logic he's excited about O'shea Dugas too. I read more into the part where he said Fred Johnson acts like he doesn't care (which definitely comes off if you watch an interview with FJ... I mean the dude loves his video games). 

Point being he's going to praise every player, but when one of them illicit's a pretty serious "on the other hand," it's not great. 

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(06-29-2020, 01:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have not listened to theinterview yet, but it could just be that you can't teach a lot of technique in a couple of weeks of regular season practice.

Remenber when Alexander said he would work on a player's (I think maybe Bodine) poor technique in the offseason?

A "technique" used in a sport is a habit that you do without thinking.  I have never played golf, but I have heard that guys ruin their swing by thinking about too many details of the swing. Changing technique usually requires TONS of repetition because it is actually learning a new habit.

And in the regular season most of the time is spent preparing for the strengths and weaknesses of specific opponenets instead of working on fundamentals of technique.  

Or, since I have not actual heard him yet, he might mean something completely different.

It is always interesting to note how different people can get different messages from the same interview.  But I will probably also hear what I want to hear when I listen to it.

So Turner was clear on why he did it. As others in this thread have said, it was to just see how he plays naturally, not how he plays when he's trying imitate technique. 

I don't doubt that's why he did it, but it seems a dumb idea to me. Great way to get your QB killed. Coaches are supposed to coach, so friggin' coach. You throw a guy out there to play in front of millions of viewers, to protect Andy Dalton's blindside, and you don't coach him.  (full disclosure: I have my doubts about Turner so maybe i'm reading more than I should into this). 

[GreenCornBengal]

(06-29-2020, 02:30 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: The main problem with your post is Taylor benched Price not Turner

I guess I’m lost, whaddya mean, isn’t Turner the Oline coach? Does he have no say in who starts??

[GreenCornBengal]

(06-29-2020, 01:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think Turner's wife is attracted to Price and that makes Jim insanely jealous.

Just my opinion, but even if price improves Turner will find a way to keep him out of the starting lineup. 

I personally believe Turner sees Price as Martin-esque. Probably sent him a male blowup doll to ‘practice blocking on’...