For the 4th of July: Dogs and fireworks

[George Cantstandya]

So last year I mentioned this in another thread. The people in my neighborhood love their fireworks on the 4th. But really they start days before and through the entire holiday. I understand people wanting to celebrate with fireworks on the 4th. But as I stated before, in my area it gets rather excessive in my opinion and goes on for days and nights over the holiday weekend almost nonstop.

My dog suffers greatly due to this. He spends most of his time hiding in the basement and is afraid to go outside. I had planned to rent a cabin out in the middle of nowhere this year but that didn't work out. So this year I talked to my vet and they told me about a product called Sileo. It is a gel that comes in a syringe without a needle that you measure to the appropriate dose and put on the gums of your dog. Apparently it works by somehow blocking receptors that register the loud noises in the dog and causing a panic response. It doesn't make the dog deaf or anything like that and doesn't sedate them either.

It isn't cheap, at least for a dog as large as mine. One syringe that is enough for two doses for my dog cost $40. So when I took him in today for his vaccinations I bought 2 which should be enough to get through most of the weekend during the worst parts at night. Of course $80 is a lot cheaper than renting a cabin. :)

For those interested I'll update after the first time I use it this weekend on how well it works. My vet highly recommended it and having been a customer of theirs for the last few years I really trust them. Anyway, I thought I would share this for anyone else with dogs that have a hard time with fireworks.

[HarleyDog]

As soon as I seen the title of your thread, my first reaction was, "Didn't george post this last year?" But this is good information you discovered. That's actually amazing how that works per your explanation. I know so many pet owners, including ourselves, have issues on the week of the 4th. Hopefully some pet owners and their pets can benefit from this discovery. Great post George.

[George Cantstandya]

(07-02-2020, 01:28 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: As soon as I seen the title of your thread, my first reaction was, "Didn't george post this last year?" But this is good information you discovered. That's actually amazing how that works per your explanation. I know so many pet owners, including ourselves, have issues on the week of the 4th. Hopefully some pet owners and their pets can benefit from this discovery. Great post George.

Thanks, yeah it was a bit of a rant of mine last year in a thread about what people did on the 4th. Knowing that it should help keep my dog comfortable and calm without sedating him works for me.  I know I have heard of other medications that more or less just sedate the dog but don't really inhibit the panic part.  Apparently while the dog may seem calm, they are still suffering mentally.  As much as I love my dog that would not work for me knowing he is still suffering even though he seemed okay.

It is very interesting that they have developed a medication that can somehow block the panic response to loud noises and keep the dog comfortable.  My vet explained  how it worked in greater detail but a lot of it was medical/neurological stuff that went over my head. So I tried to explain what she told me the best I could recall.   :)

[fredtoast]

It is really strange how much it bothers some dogs and not others.

When my father was growing up during the depression in the hills of Kentucky dogs were tools used for hunting.  If a dog was "gun shy" it was useless and would get "culled out".

Just getting a gun out in front of a "gun shy" dog will be enough for it to run away and hide.  But dogs that love to hunt go crazy with excitement when they see the gun.  It is like a dog seeing a leash and getting excited to go on a walk.

My ex-wife has an Afghan Hound that has extreme social anxiety.  She says she thinks it is because the dog was abused as a puppy.  But it could be that the dog was just born crazy like some people are.  Most dogs that are afraid of noises have not been injured or hurt by something with a loud noise.  Instead they are just born that way.

And it bother me to see it.  I had a dog that would crawl up in your lap during fireworks, but I know people who had dogs that would tear down screen doors and crawl under beds to hide even in thunderstorms.

[George Cantstandya]

(07-02-2020, 06:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is really strange how much it bothers some dogs and not others.

When my father was growing up during the depression in the hills of Kentucky dogs were tools used for hunting.  If a dog was "gun shy" it was useless and would get "culled out".

Just getting a gun out in front of a "gun shy" dog will be enough for it to run away and hide.  But dogs that love to hunt go crazy with excitement when they see the gun.  It is like a dog seeing a leash and getting excited to go on a walk.

My ex-wife has an Afghan Hound that has extreme social anxiety.  She says she thinks it is because the dog was abused as a puppy.  But it could be that the dog was just born crazy like some people are.  Most dogs that are afraid of noises have not been injured or hurt by something with a loud noise.  Instead they are just born that way.

And it bother me to see it.  I had a dog that would crawl up in your lap during fireworks, but I know people who had dogs that would tear down screen doors and crawl under beds to hide even in thunderstorms.

I think my dog was abused before I adopted him from the shelter.  When I first brought him home and took him for walks he would freak out and grab my pant leg in his teeth if my foot got too close to him and he would not let go.  He was visibly upset and angry to the point at times I thought he would attack me. On a few occasions I literally walked him back home with him growling and pulling on my pant leg. It was never an issue as long as he was further away from my feet while walking. So I think he had probably been kicked by someone, probably multiple times, before I adopted him.  It took some work, patience, and treats before he would walk with me without that being an issue.  But it was totally worth it and if was a matter of him just being born crazy I don't know if I could have resolved that so easily.

I also wonder what else he was subjected to.  A friend of mine gave me this pet treat launcher that sort of looks like a gun.  He was totally terrified of it even though it didn't make a loud noise and dispensed treats.

So maybe he has some genetic predisposition that makes him afraid of loud noises. But having worked with him for almost 7 years now I think at least part of it has to do with his past before I adopted him. He is still rather skittish even without loud noises.  Sometimes when I pet him he gets startled if he doesn't notice me first.  

He is extremely intelligent.  For example even though he had not been to the vet in over 6 months, when I took him there today the first thing he did was get on the scale and sit so they could take his weight.  He didn't even have to be prompted.  He just seemed to remember that was how things work even after all that time.   I've trained him to sit, stay, lay down, give paw and roll over and it only took a few treats to do so before he learned it.  I can put some of his toys in another room and say, "Go get your ball," or "Go get your bear," or "Go get your squeaky," and he will retrieve them correctly every time.

But yes there are probably some genetics as well as history.  I've spent so much time and effort with my dog making sure he is happy and comfortable that I think a lot of his anxiety has to do with how he was treated before I adopted him. I'm no dog trainer and not a vet either so what do I know?

[SunsetBengal]

When I saw "Dogs and Fireworks", I had a completely different idea in mind.. But yes, many animals are traumatized by the sounds that the fireworks emit. Heck, my wife's Yorkie gets nervous when I fire the BB gun, let alone the .12 ga. So, just like at the Battle of Ft. McHenry, I'm sure that all of the animals will find cover while all of the bombs are bursting in air.

[jfkbengals]

(07-02-2020, 06:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is really strange how much it bothers some dogs and not others.

Very true.  My sister has a place on the Potomac, and her in-laws are retired across the water.  There are fireworks EVERYWHERE there over the water for pretty much the whole week.  To put this in perspective, one guy in particular used to drop over $20k a year on his displays.  The in-laws would have to drug their dog nightly for the entire week because otherwise he would get so terrified that his heart rate would get to a critical stage.  Meanwhile, my sister's dogs were just like "whatever, where are the treats?".

[jfkbengals]

(07-02-2020, 08:36 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: When I saw "Dogs and Fireworks", I had a completely different idea in mind..

Ditto.

My first thought was "Uh oh, what did Harley do?"

[*Synric*]

(07-02-2020, 06:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is really strange how much it bothers some dogs and not others.

When my father was growing up during the depression in the hills of Kentucky dogs were tools used for hunting.  If a dog was "gun shy" it was useless and would get "culled out".

Just getting a gun out in front of a "gun shy" dog will be enough for it to run away and hide.  But dogs that love to hunt go crazy with excitement when they see the gun.  It is like a dog seeing a leash and getting excited to go on a walk.

I've noticed the smarter the dog the more likely they are to be gun shy. You can train it out of them but even though it's an easy process it takes a decent amount of time. 

[HarleyDog]

(07-03-2020, 03:31 PM)Synric Wrote: I've noticed the smarter the dog the more likely they are to be gun shy. You can train it out of them but even though it's an easy process it takes a decent amount of time. 

This brings me to question if hunting dogs are effected by fireworks? I would think not?

[*Synric*]

(07-03-2020, 04:14 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: This brings me to question if hunting dogs are effected by fireworks? I would think not?

No they are more interested in the noise than scared. 

[fredtoast]

(07-03-2020, 03:31 PM)Synric Wrote: I've noticed the smarter the dog the more likely they are to be gun shy. You can train it out of them but even though it's an easy process it takes a decent amount of time. 

I did not mean to insult anyone's pet with my "born crazy" comment.  Being gun-shy or afraid of noises doesn't really mean they are "crazy".

[George Cantstandya]

So reporting back after using the medication for the first time last night.  It seemed to work very well.  The only issue I had was that the directions were to use it 1 hour before loud events.   So I gave it to him about 6:30 PM as later in the evening is when the fireworks usually start to get worse.  About an hour later the louder fireworks increased in intensity but the medication didn't seem to help at first.  However, about 2 hours later it seemed to kick in. 

After the 2 hour mark he was completely calm and seemed totally unaffected by the fireworks.  He even had no problem going out to use the bathroom before bed when the noise was almost nonstop.  He slept well and seemed like his normal self.  So overall I'm very happy with the results.  This evening I'll give it to him a bit earlier or if the fireworks become more intense earlier than I plan then I'll give it to him then.  Tonight will probably be the best test as I am certain the fireworks will peak then.

(07-04-2020, 10:27 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I did not mean to insult anyone's pet with my "born crazy" comment.  Being gun-shy or afraid of noises doesn't really mean they are "crazy".

Hi, Fred.  Sorry if I seemed a bit defensive in my earlier post.  I didn't take offense.  I was just trying to explain what I know about my dog.  But I do know there are some animals that are born with mental problems.  Back in the 80's my mom bought a Miniature Pinscher puppy from a pet store.  That poor dog had problems from the start.  It would often shake uncontrollably, could not at all be house trained, and was just a complete mess.  She ended up giving it to a dog trainer she knew but I don't recall what ever happened to the dog.

My guess is that dog came from a puppy mill and from I have read often there is a fair amount of inbreeding going on in those places.  That's one reason I adopt from shelters and think having a mixed breed helps as well.  

Of course the main reason to adopt and not shop is to give a dog in need a loving home.  They really seem to appreciate being rescued.   When I found my dog at the shelter he was just laying there looking depressed.  Even when they took him out to the area where I could visit with him he just laid there looking sad.   I asked them about his history and all they knew was he was found laying by a road under weight, covered with fleas and suffering from mange.  When I brought him home he completely changed as soon as I brought him in the door.  He was extremely happy, full of energy and we bonded immediately.  I kept him in a crate the first night because I didn't know what to expect and didn't want any overnight issues.  That lasted one night and he has stayed crate free and has slept in my bed every night since.   Other than the walking issue that was resolved he seems to show me every day how much he appreciates having a good home. Also he has helped me through some rather difficult times as well so I very much appreciate him too. :)

Edit: Sorry to go a bit off topic later in my post. I'm just a big advocate for adopting pets from shelters.

Anyway, happy 4th everyone! I hope you all enjoy it. But remember if you drink a 5th on the 4th, you might not go forth on the 5th.

[HarleyDog]

(07-02-2020, 09:26 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Ditto.

My first thought was "Uh oh, what did Harley do?"

That's a legitimate thought/question. Hell, half the time I ask myself the same thing?

(07-04-2020, 12:26 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Edit: Sorry to go a bit off topic later in my post.  I'm just a big advocate for adopting pets from shelters.

So is my wife and me. So many animals that need rescued. I think both of our dogs had faced trauma because if either one of us raises our voice, they pretty much sink where they are and they get nervous and depressed. Both are pretty weird but lovable dogs. One of them is laid back and really doesn't get excited too much about anything except when someone knocks on the door. She also gets really nervous in storms and fireworks and willo pee on the floor if we don't watch her. She's probably 15yrs old. The other one goes ape over garden hoses and leaf blowers. And, while out in the mancave this week, I discovered she really has an issue with nail guns. Oh and hugs, she can;t stand when my wife and I give each other a prolonged hug. She get's nervous and thinks we are hurting each other and tries to split us apart. Well, either that or she's just jealous as heck?

Worst part is they will fight. Vet said we need to get rid of one of them but we can't do it. We just keep our eyes on them all the time. They can walk together, sleep next to each other and be great for months. Yet, all the sudden, in an instant, one will attack the other and has gotten pretty bloody a few times. So much so that trips to the vet had to be made. That part there sucks worse than you can imagine.

[SunsetBengal]

(07-03-2020, 04:14 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: This brings me to question if hunting dogs are effected by fireworks? I would think not?

Well, if you live in town, just be prepared for them to bring back all sorts of rabbits, squirrels, and slow cats.. 

Hotdogs and Fireworks sounds fun, but all of our local festivities have been canceled due to the virus..

[fredtoast]

(07-04-2020, 02:24 PM)HarleyDog Wrote:  The other one goes ape over garden hoses and leaf blowers.

My parents had cattle, and one time my Dad was thrilled to find a full blooded young Blue Heeler at the pound.  When he brought it home he found out it was crazy. 

It had problems with all sorts of things but went really nuts on the weedeater.  Eventually it bit my mom bad while she was using it.  I figured he would just shoot it, but he took it back to the pound.

[HarleyDog]

(07-04-2020, 03:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My parents had cattle, and one time my Dad was thrilled to find a full blooded young Blue Heeler at the pound.  When he brought it home he found out it was crazy. 

It had problems with all sorts of things but went really nuts on the weedeater.  Eventually it bit my mom bad while she was using it.  I figured he would just shoot it, but he took it back to the pound.

This is tough. If one of the dogs went crazy and started biting me, the wife, kids or grandkids, I couldn't shoot it. I know several people that would, but personally, I just couldnt. Yet, I would feel just as guilty taking it to the pound because if adopted, could hurt someone else. I think I would probably take to vet and peacefully have the animal put down. But that's kind of tough too? Kinda like our dogs still living together. 

The vet told us after their first fight, which was pretty bloody, that they would continue to go at it. He said that once they get the taste of blood, it's what they will do. I'm not sure I agree with that, but it is exactly what happened. Kind of like 2 kids who freaken go at it and try to kill one another. You just can't bring yourself to kill one. I know, kinda stupid analogy, just hope you understand what I meant. WTS, I don't judge others for shooting a dog for being violent or even taking back to pound. Just would be difficult or impossible for me to do it myself.

[George Cantstandya]

(07-04-2020, 02:24 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: That's a legitimate thought/question. Hell, half the time I ask myself the same thing?


So is my wife and me. So many animals that need rescued. I think both of our dogs had faced trauma because if either one of us raises our voice, they pretty much sink where they are and they get nervous and depressed. Both are pretty weird but lovable dogs. One of them is laid back and really doesn't get excited too much about anything except when someone knocks on the door. She also gets really nervous in storms and fireworks and willo pee on the floor if we don't watch her. She's probably 15yrs old. The other one goes ape over garden hoses and leaf blowers. And, while out in the mancave this week, I discovered she really has an issue with nail guns. Oh and hugs, she can;t stand when my wife and I give each other a prolonged hug. She get's nervous and thinks we are hurting each other and tries to split us apart. Well, either that or she's just jealous as heck?

Worst part is they will fight. Vet said we need to get rid of one of them but we can't do it. We just keep our eyes on them all the time. They can walk together, sleep next to each other and be great for months. Yet, all the sudden, in an instant, one will attack the other and has gotten pretty bloody a few times. So much so that trips to the vet had to be made. That part there sucks worse than you can imagine.

I've been thinking about getting another dog as mine is now considered a senior due to his size.  At least that is what the vet told me.  I guess larger dogs age faster.  I'd like to have another companion when I have to sadly say goodbye to my dog.  Plus I think he would like having a friend to hang out with when I'm busy and can't give him much attention.

If I do, I think adopting a puppy would work better.  Even though I know puppies are the first adopted from shelters and the older dogs get the short end of the stick.  I just think my dog would adapt to it better having a young dog he could mentor and be a role model to.  I don't know how he would react if I brought an older dog home and I'd hate to adopt one and have them not get along. Since my dog is number one it would suck to bring another home, have them not get along, and have to find a good, safe home for the second dog.  I wouldn't feel comfortable returning the  dog to the shelter.  I've heard that adopted dogs that are returned to a shelter are less likely to get adopted again.  So that is not something I would want to put it through.

My mom has two really small dogs.  I took him over there once and they terrified him getting in his face barking nonstop even though he could have easily put them in their place since he is about 60 lbs larger.  At the same time he will let my young niece and nephew chase him, yell at him as playful kids seem to do, and jump all over him with no problem.   It's like he knows that small kids are not a threat.

He's a gentle giant I suppose. But I do think if anyone tried to harm me he would have something to say about it. I've had people he doesn't know while walking him approach me and he starts barking if they get too close to me. Not in a, "I'm going to bite your face off sort of way," but as a general warning like, "Who the heck are you and why are you getting so close to the person that feeds me?" Once I let him know that the person is okay he just chills out. Works good for Covid social distancing these days I guess. :)

[HarleyDog]

(07-04-2020, 04:11 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: I've been thinking about getting another dog as mine is now considered a senior due to his size.  

We have figured out that it is key to find a submissive dog, if you can. We had Cheyanne and felt she was getting lonely because when we would leave, she would get seperation anziety and then tear the blinds up, knock over the trash, etc. Then we adopted Peach. The day we brought them home, they played and Cheyenne got posessive and came at Peach. Peach submitted, and from that day fourth they were best friends. They would play, wrestle and do dog stuff. It was great. Then Peach got cancer and we had to put her to sleep.

Cheyenne fell into a depression not having her friend around. We waited 6 months and got Isabell. She is very muscular, but was pretty this when we got her. Actually now that I remember it, we didn't get her from the pound. The woman at the animal shelter gave my wife a contact who had rescue dogs as well. However, one thing she never told my wife was that Isabell wasn't good with other dogs. She is extremely posessive and everyday, she stares down Cheyenne when she get's close. Specially in the kitchen. Plus, when my wife sit's down, she always sits at her feet like she is guarding her. It sucks.

The worst part is that Cheyenne is in her (what I consider) retirement years. She should enjoy the last years of her life. Yet, I think she's more unhappy now than when after Peach passed. She doesn't have a friend in the other dog. Yet, she's forced to live with her. Plus, Chey was never crated. But since we can't trust they will not fight when we are out? They are crated when we leave. Makes for a long day for those girls. We don't like crating. That's not much different than being in the pound.

[CKwi88]

In a similar situation. Despite my neighbors knowing that I have an 11 month old and a dog that is not a fan, they've been routinely setting off fireworks over the past year, at just about any time and on just about any day. Luckily my dog doesn't get too too upset.

I usually don't get too worked up around the 4th, people are gonna set them off. But the town I live it the entire summer is firework time, and it gets old quick, especially with an infant waking up.

The schadenfreude was strong when I learned my neighbors house is getting foreclosed on.