Nothing wrong with Hill

[BernLock]

He's just not exploding through the holes like he did last year. He's very tentative. Just needs to see the hole and run through it

[WhoDeyWho]

(10-19-2015, 01:27 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: It's because, for one, we're running too much from the shotgun, whereas Hill's strength is just to get the ball going downhill and make cuts as he goes.

Second, we haven't given him enough carries since his game with two fumbles to get into any sort of rhythm.

If we put Dalton under center and make him our big dog again, he'll produce.

He was at his best when he carried the load.  Jeremy is a stud, and something tells me people will appreciate him more late in the year.  

[OrlandoBengal]

(10-19-2015, 01:27 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: It's because, for one, we're running too much from the shotgun, whereas Hill's strength is just to get the ball going downhill and make cuts as he goes.

Second, we haven't given him enough carries since his game with two fumbles to get into any sort of rhythm.

If we put Dalton under center and make him our big dog again, he'll produce.

The obvious quandary being that Dalton looks better in shotgun.  I think this is an adjustment that Hill is going to have to make, not the other way around.

[WhoDeyWho]

(10-19-2015, 01:30 PM)BernLock Wrote: He's just not exploding through the holes like he did last year. He's very tentative. Just needs to see the hole and run through it

I don't think he's had a lot of holes to be fair.  I'll have to go back and look at his carries, but I feel like a lot of them are getting blown up.  

[BFritz21]

(10-19-2015, 01:30 PM)BernLock Wrote: He's just not exploding through the holes like he did last year. He's very tentative. Just needs to see the hole and run through it

Problem being that he started last year (majority of the time) with Dalton under center, so he was just running full speed downhill when he got the ball.

Now, he's getting the ball from flat-footed, and not only does he have to look where he wants to run, but also has to get up a head of steam running more east/west than just running full-speed downhill.

(10-19-2015, 01:35 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: The obvious quandary being that Dalton looks better in shotgun.  I think this is an adjustment that Hill is going to have to make, not the other way around.

But it's not Hill's running style and he's too good to just say "ok, you can't work this way, then you're done."

If you look at Andy's stats, he only has five more completions on four more attempts when going from the shotgun with 88 more yards and one more TD.  Actually, it might be even more because it doesn't list from the I formation (unless we've only run from that set, and those stats come from here).

We can still run shotgun on third down (and even some on second down), and even some entire drives, but I think that we need to establish the run game, especially because it gets cold in the AFCN, not to mention establishing the run is important for almost every team.

[*Go Cards*]

No worries here.

He is scoring already and certain he will catch a gear soon.

[OrlandoBengal]

(10-19-2015, 01:51 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Problem being that he started last year (majority of the time) with Dalton under center, so he was just running full speed downhill when he got the ball.

Now, he's getting the ball from flat-footed, and not only does he have to look where he wants to run, but also has to get up a head of steam running more east/west than just running full-speed downhill.

But it's not Hill's running style and he's too good to just say "ok, you can't work this way, then you're done."

If you look at Andy's stats, he only has five more completions on four more attempts when going from the shotgun with 88 more yards and one more TD.  Actually, it might be even more because it doesn't list from the I formation (unless we've only run from that set, and those stats come from here).

We can still run shotgun on third down (and even some on second down), and even some entire drives, but I think that we need to establish the run game, especially because it gets cold in the AFCN, not to mention establishing the run is important for almost every team.

Obviously I am not a coach, but I would have a very difficult time in altering what they are doing so far this year.  Dalton is playing out of his mind... he is a legitimate MVP contender and the team is unbeaten.  How do you say "we're going to change what is working so well"?  Especially when Gio is doing well.

[WhoDeyWho]

(10-19-2015, 01:51 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Problem being that he started last year (majority of the time) with Dalton under center, so he was just running full speed downhill when he got the ball.

I don't think this was the case.  A lot of times he would get the ball, hesitate, and then shot through a hole.  How can you find a hole if you are going full speed at the time you get the ball?  On most of his long runs, he showed patience and vision. 





 

[BFritz21]

(10-19-2015, 02:06 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: I don't think this was the case.  A lot of times he would get the ball, hesitate, and then shot through a hole.  How can you find a hole if you are going full speed at the time you get the ball?  On most of his long runs, he showed patience and vision. 





 

That video proves what I was saying.

Even if he did hesitate for a split-second, he was always still going downhill.  Even when he'd sidestep to find a bigger hole or make a cut, he was still going forward at a good speed.  He's best when he's running downhill and making cuts into open holes, even if he has to stutter-step or anything.

Need to give him the ball while he's running towards the line and tell the defense "good luck in trying to stop him."

[WhoDeyWho]

(10-20-2015, 03:07 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: That video proves what I was saying.

Even if he did hesitate for a split-second, he was always still going downhill.  Even when he'd sidestep to find a bigger hole or make a cut, he was still going forward at a good speed.  He's best when he's running downhill and making cuts into open holes, even if he has to stutter-step or anything.

Need to give him the ball while he's running towards the line and tell the defense "good luck in trying to stop him."

On his longest run of the season (Denver game) he was moving laterally  until he broke the run.  

[fredtoast]

(10-19-2015, 10:00 AM)hitchopottimus Wrote: I tend to subscribe to the theory that Jill cut his teeth running behind a fullback as a lead blocker, and learning how to do without that will take a little time. It'll happen, though. He's too talented to be stymied for long.

This.

Plus, for some reason it seems that the blocking is not the same for Gio and Hill.  Probably just the small sample size that I notice, but it seems like Hill doesn't get as many big holes as Gio.

Maybe they use one scheme more with Hill than Gio?

[Utts]

(10-19-2015, 05:02 AM)Bengal Jells Wrote: Hill will be fine, and the problem isnt our Line. They arent run blocking the greatest but i think there is more to it. Besides the Chargers look at the D lines we had to go up against. Hill is going to do much better vs the steelers. If we can bust a few loose that passing game is only going to get even better.

The only problem with Hill is that he's competing against a guy playing MUCH better than him right now. He could turn it around, but I haven't seen any signs of that yet. 

As for playing much better against the Steelers. Is that based on some scouting you've done, or just a thought that popped into your head?

Questionable thread.

[Fresno B]

(10-20-2015, 05:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This.

Plus, for some reason it seems that the blocking is not the same for Gio and Hill.  Probably just the small sample size that I notice, but it seems like Hill doesn't get as many big holes as Gio.

Maybe they use one scheme more with Hill than Gio?

Nope. Hill is not hitting the hole like Gio. Gio hits the hole and it an automatic 7 yards. Hill hits the hole and either stops to juke or is immediately slowed down by the first defender. To me, Hill is looking real weak as of late. Just this past game against Seattle , Hill had a huge hole to his left but hit the wrong hole? Wtf

[Stewy]

(10-19-2015, 10:00 AM)hitchopottimus Wrote: I tend to subscribe to the theory that Jill cut his teeth running behind a fullback as a lead blocker, and learning how to do without that will take a little time. It'll happen, though. He's too talented to be stymied for long.

You know I think there's something to this, seriously.  All through college and up until this year, he's always run behind a FB.  He's looking for holes and is tentative.  Gio is much more assertive in hitting holes.  However when it clicks for Hill to hit the hole and not be looking for a blocker to follow, I think he'll be fine.

[fredtoast]

(10-20-2015, 03:07 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: That video proves what I was saying.

Even if he did hesitate for a split-second, he was always still going downhill.  Even when he'd sidestep to find a bigger hole or make a cut, he was still going forward at a good speed.  He's best when he's running downhill and making cuts into open holes, even if he has to stutter-step or anything.

Need to give him the ball while he's running towards the line and tell the defense "good luck in trying to stop him."

Hill has always been a lot more effective running out of the shotgun instead of with Dalton under center.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-19-2015, 07:17 AM)djam Wrote: I wonder if Hill may be a little more reluctant after the early fumbles? Even with his ypc down, he's still good and I'm not worried about it. He'll be fine.

I think that is it, those 2 fumbles messed with him a bit, plus Gio has just been running great this year.

As the season goes on i think we watch Hill really get into his own and with the way Gio has been running i
think our running game will go to the next level. We don't have to throw the ball if we don't have to, it is just
that we have so many weapons that it is a lot harder for teams to stop the passing game right now.

Plus Dalton playing so great. I agree that Hill will be fine.

[Slappy from New Haven]

(10-19-2015, 02:01 PM)Go Cards Wrote: No worries here.

He is scoring already and certain he will catch a gear soon.

True that, I think we keep looking for players to be "something: great. He plays hard, and gets it done. He busted his ass to score on the first drive last week.

He makes the sum great and that is all he needs to work on

[BFritz21]

(10-21-2015, 01:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Hill has always been a lot more effective running out of the shotgun instead of with Dalton under center.

Completely and utterly false, as I pointed out in the other thread.

[BFritz21]

(10-20-2015, 03:14 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: On his longest run of the season (Denver game) he was moving laterally  until he broke the run.  

He has done that on a few runs, but, even in those, he's not effective until he turns upfield and just starts going downhill.  On most of this runs, he's just running laterally until he finds his hole and then bursts upfield.  

The way we're running him now, he has to juke and dance to find holes.  He needs to run laterally, then turn upfield, try and squeeze into a hole, and then make more moves to make defenders miss because he's not just running full speed where one cut and he's gone.

We need to give him the ball deep while he's going forward and just let him pick his spots and explode upfield.

[BengalChris]

(10-19-2015, 10:22 AM)Pezmerga Wrote: Seems like Hill just needs more carries to get back on track. Him getting a few here and there isn't going to help him get in a rhythm.

The problem is, we need production, and it's hard to justify giving Hill the bulk of the carries with Gio performing so well.

^^^ this

He's the kind of back who needs 20+ carries a game and when he gets 25, watch out. But we are out receivering opponents this year, so don't need to out running back them.

You just can't run formations with a FB when you've got Green, Jones, Sanu and Eifert out on routes. That would be 12 men on the field. Andy Dalton is playing really well, so why take out a receiver?