Season is already over

[Big Boss]

Here's what you do.

- Each team plays six games - all divisional opponents.
- Games are two weeks apart - to allow for staggered practices and to allow positive players to quarantine/recover without missing too many games.
- Three post-season rounds (divisional, conference, Super Bowl). Wild-card is cut.

Altogether, nine weeks' worth of football spread over 18 weeks (4.5 months).

[2MinutesHate]

(08-02-2020, 02:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There are actually more cases now than when we originally shut down most businesses.  But everyone knew shutting down would not make it go away.  The goal was just to slow it down so that or medical facilities would not be overwhelmed i.e. "flatten the curve".

So the question is if things are getting better or worse.  It seems it is getting worse in some places but levelling out and even decreasing in others.

Hopefully if it spikes again people will take it seriously this time.  That was the problem when we re-opened.  Too many people ignored sound medical advice and failed to take proper precautions.

Back in April, when well over 2,000 people a day were dying, they were averaging 30,000 cases/day or so.  I don't believe that the number of confirmed infections really tells the true story.  The number of dead is something that can at least be measured with some degree of certainty and I believe is in direct correlation to detected/undetected infections. 
And while I'm no Trump lover, it is true when he says that more testing = more cases.  In April, there were probably more like 100,000+ cases per day but they simply went undetected due to many being asymptomatic and lack of available test kits.

I'm from one of the last free states out there (South Dakota) and there are few restrictions here.  We haven't seen much of a rise at all in cases in the past few months and all the tourists are here now (it's packed like I've never seen before.)  Most outbreaks are in assisted living facilities who are under the most stringent lockdown rules.

There is Sturgis motorcycle rally coming up next week with 250,000 people showing up.  That should be a true test of what will happen from a mass gathering.  I can't say I support this, but it could offer a glimpse into what could or could not happen at NFL games.

**P.S. - For the record, I don't buy into any of that government conspiracy nonsense. Good grief. What a waste of energy trying to connect those dots!

[Sled21]

I'll trade you Andy Beshear for Kristi Noem....

[fredtoast]

(08-03-2020, 01:52 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: I'm from one of the last free states out there (South Dakota) and there are few restrictions here.  We haven't seen much of a rise at all in cases in the past few months and all the tourists are here now (it's packed like I've never seen before.) 

Why is South Dakota one of the last "free States"?

And even with tourists South Dakota's population density is miniscule.

[Millhouse]

(08-03-2020, 11:40 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Their death rates are over ten times the rate of their neighbors Finland and Norway.

The people in Sweden who are trying to argue that they are reaching herd immunity are relying on the theory that once a person has the virus he will be immune for up to six months.  That has not been proven at all.

There were reports out of South Korea where like 160 people that had the virus caught it again, but this was back in late April.

But yeah, as of today, there is absolutely no proof that if someone has had it they are immune to it, let alone a 'herd' being immune after having it.

[Sled21]

(08-03-2020, 01:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why is South Dakota one of the last "free States"?

And even with tourists South Dakota's population density is miniscule.

Maybe because the Governor ASKED people to do the right thing instead of mandating it through Executive Order.

[2MinutesHate]

(08-03-2020, 01:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why is South Dakota one of the last "free States"?

And even with tourists South Dakota's population density is miniscule.

We are not under constant lockdown like places like California, New York, etc.  I don't have much time to explain it.

Here's a link you can read for yourself.
https://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-2020/coronavirus-state-restrictions.html

Mount Rushmore alone has 2 million annual visitors and btw I was there Saturday and it was packed like always.  No social distancing, no masks.  
I can go to a bar or a restaurant.  My business was not forced to close.
No constant ambulances either picking up the covid dead.  

Population density should not matter when talking about mass gatherings and their effects on the population in relation to coronavirus.

[fredtoast]

(08-03-2020, 02:12 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Population density should not matter when talking about mass gatherings and their effects on the population in relation to coronavirus.

The "mass gatherings" you are talking about are not South Dakota citizens.  So you have no idea what their impact is on infection rates.

If over 2 million people visit Mt Rushmore then that is over twice the population of South Dakota.  Lots of those people probably got infected but they don't count against South Dakota because they don't live in South Dakota.

[2MinutesHate]

(08-03-2020, 02:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The "mass gatherings" you are talking about are not South Dakota citizens.  So you have no idea what their impact is on infection rates.

If over 2 million people visit Mt Rushmore then that is over twice the population of South Dakota.  Lots of those people probably got infected but they don't count against South Dakota because they don't live in South Dakota.

Where do you think the people who run the campgrounds, hotels, bars, restaurants, food trucks, tshirt stands, police stations, hospitals etc. etc.  live at Fred?  Good grief, think a little bit.


If those that are infected travel to South Dakota, wouldn't you think that would spread to the population here?  Or it doesn't work that way due to population density so some other silliness you can come up with?  

You obviously have never been here if you don't think there are many South Dakotan's (as well as others) going to the motorcycle rally or all the campgrounds and tourist attractions here in the state.  I'm telling you because I live here and I know.  

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(08-03-2020, 02:44 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Where do you think the people who run the campgrounds, hotels, bars, restaurants, food trucks, tshirt stands, police stations, hospitals etc. etc.  live at Fred?  Good grief, think a little bit.


If those that are infected travel to South Dakota, wouldn't you think that would spread to the population here?  Or it doesn't work that way due to population density so some other silliness you can come up with?  

You obviously have never been here if you don't think there are many South Dakotan's (as well as others) going to the motorcycle rally or all the campgrounds and tourist attractions here in the state.  I'm telling you because I live here and I know.  

Dont show a pic from 2015 to prove your point. Picture is irrelevant. Meat processing plants in SD specifically have some of the highest rates from infection in entire US

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-03-2020, 11:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't even understand this logic.  

What exactly does "the left" have to gain by forcing people to wear masks and stay 6 feet away from each other?  
What is the goal of this "tactic"? 

And when exactly have you "seen it before"?  I clearly remember when the right used a campaign of lies and disinformation to convince over half the population that Saddam Hussein was involved in 9-11, but they had the clear goal of justifying a military invasion.  I just don't see what he left has to gain by getting people to wear masks.

Don’t remember that one. The invasion of Iraq was sold on the premise of Saddam having WMD.

[2MinutesHate]

(08-03-2020, 02:49 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Dont show a pic from 2015 to prove your point. Picture is irrelevant. Meat processing plants in SD specifically have some of the highest rates from infection in entire US

It's just a picture of the crowd on main street in Sturgis.  Obviously, I don't have this year's picture as it doesn't happen until next week and I would expect it to be smaller, but they do expect 250,000+ to attend.  Come see for yourself.  You don't have to believe me.

Basically, this area could be a good glimpse into the future for what happens during a mass gathering that is going to happen.

Meat processing plants are people working shoulder to shoulder all day long.  They're absolutely a great place to spread a virus.  No argument there.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(08-03-2020, 02:57 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: It's just a picture of the crowd on main street in Sturgis.  Obviously, I don't have this year's picture as it doesn't happen until next week and I would expect it to be smaller, but they do expect 250,000+ to attend.  Come see for yourself.  You don't have to believe me.

Basically, this area could be a good glimpse into the future for what happens during a mass gathering that is going to happen.

Meat processing plants are people working shoulder to shoulder all day long.  They're absolutely a great place to spread a virus.  No argument there.

I hope the citizens in SD will be smart the devastation could be brutal if the community isn't smart. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-03-2020, 01:52 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Back in April, when well over 2,000 people a day were dying, they were averaging 30,000 cases/day or so.  I don't believe that the number of confirmed infections really tells the true story.  The number of dead is something that can at least be measured with some degree of certainty and I believe is in direct correlation to detected/undetected infections. 
And while I'm no Trump lover, it is true when he says that more testing = more cases.  In April, there were probably more like 100,000+ cases per day but they simply went undetected due to many being asymptomatic and lack of available test kits.

I'm from one of the last free states out there (South Dakota) and there are few restrictions here.  We haven't seen much of a rise at all in cases in the past few months and all the tourists are here now (it's packed like I've never seen before.)  Most outbreaks are in assisted living facilities who are under the most stringent lockdown rules.

There is Sturgis motorcycle rally coming up next week with 250,000 people showing up.  That should be a true test of what will happen from a mass gathering.  I can't say I support this, but it could offer a glimpse into what could or could not happen at NFL games.

**P.S. - For the record, I don't buy into any of that government conspiracy nonsense. Good grief. What a waste of energy trying to connect those dots!

Didn’t we get a glimpse of what can happen with Florida as an example?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-03-2020, 02:49 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Don’t remember that one. The invasion of Iraq was sold on the premise of Saddam having WMD.

And harboring Al Qaeda.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/shaping-public-opinion-the-911iraq-connection-in-the-bush-administrations-rhetoric/FBF0272D582863800F770F1AEE276593#

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-03-2020, 03:58 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: And harboring Al Qaeda.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/shaping-public-opinion-the-911iraq-connection-in-the-bush-administrations-rhetoric/FBF0272D582863800F770F1AEE276593#

That’s not what it was sold on and you (and Fred) know it.

[2MinutesHate]

(08-03-2020, 03:49 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Didn’t we get a glimpse of what can happen with Florida as an example?

Well, I think Florida has been a subject of debate concerning suppression of covid numbers.  I believe they had problems all along and used the kids on the beaches, bars, etc. as good scapegoats.  Just my opinion really based on what I've read.  They probably didn't want to scare the living crap out of all the old people down there with alot of really bad news.

I think our state is going to use the effects of the rally and tourist season as a way to determine whether or not they open schools on Sept. 8th, which is the plan for now.  If there is a huge rise of cases and deaths, they'll pump the brakes I think.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-03-2020, 04:09 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: That’s not what it was sold on and you (and Fred) know it.

They sold it as both. Just because you don’t remember doesn’t mean it’s false.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/3689022.pdf?seq=1

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-03-2020, 04:16 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Well, I think Florida has been a subject of debate concerning suppression of covid numbers.  I believe they had problems all along and used the kids on the beaches, bars, etc. as good scapegoats.  Just my opinion really based on what I've read.  They probably didn't want to scare the living crap out of all the old people down there with alot of really bad news.

I think our state is going to use the effects of the rally and tourist season as a way to determine whether or not they open schools on Sept. 8th, which is the plan for now.  If there is a huge rise of cases and deaths, they'll pump the brakes I think.

Okay, what about Georgia?

[fredtoast]

(08-03-2020, 02:49 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Don’t remember that one. The invasion of Iraq was sold on the premise of Saddam having WMD.

Over 60% of Americans believed Saddam Hussein was involved in 9-11 at the time we went to war with Irag, and it was no accident.

FoxNews packaged it all together in the "War on Terrorism".  Fox has a favorite technique I call "This raises questions...."  That is a line they use all the time when they have no evidence but they want to get a story out there anyway.   It is a way to get wild rumors into their viewers minds who after listening to a ten minute story forget that it was just thrown out there as a possibility.  Here is classic Brit Hume from '03 spreading that FoxNews propaganda

BRIT HUME, HOST: It's an applause line. And in that case, a laughter line for the Democrats in their presidential debates. There you heard it from Howard Dean (search), from Dennis Kucinich (search) and finally, there from Senator Bob Graham (search) of Florida, the flat out statement…definitive statement, no connection between 9-11 and Iraq. Well, certainly the administration has never claimed a connection, but is it that clear that it is definite there was not? For more on this, we turn now to FOX News foreign affairs analyst, Mansoor Ijaz, who joins us now from Berlin; the man with the best sources we know of anybody on these kinds of issues.

Mansoor, welcome. And tell us, first of all, your sense about whether it is…whether it can be definitively stated as a fact that there was no…9-11 connection to Iraq.




MANSOOR IJAZ, FOX NEWS FOREIGN AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, Brit, I'll first…I'll say to you that with regard to Howard Dean and Congressman Kucinich, you have to forgive them because they don't know any better. But I was surprised to hear Bob Graham say that since he sat in a senior position on the Senate Intelligence Committee during the course of these events.

The fact of the matter is that as early as 1994, but certainly proof positive as of 1998, the connection between Al Qaeda (search) and Saddam Hussein was very clear. In February and March of 1998, bin Laden's No. 2 guy visited Baghdad at the request of the intelligence services of Iraq.

And he was living in Khartoum at the time at the very moment that the Sudanese intelligence chief was begging the FBI in hand written notes that were carried back and forth to come to the Sudan and look at what the data was that they had, who they were dealing with, how bin Laden's people were moving around, which ones were moving where and what they were doing.
There is no and, if's, or but's about the fact that there was a connection between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein that early.