ProFootballOutsiders ranks 2019 Bengals #1

[fredtoast]

In combined special teams

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/special-teams/2019

Their math is complicated but you can read about it in the link if you are interested.

FG/XP..............5th.....FG accuracy is weighted for distance of each kick.
KO coverage.....6th
KO return.........1st
Punt coverage...12th
Punt return.......25th....There is currently a thread discussing our PR options for 2020. We really need to improve in this area

They also do another analysis that measures how much of a advantage/disadvantage a team had based on the elements of the opposing teams special teams that were beyond their control (FG accuracy, depth of kick offs, length of punts) It is called "Hidden Points" and the Bengals had the 4th largest disadvatage in the league with (-10.3) hidden points.

[*bfine32*]

Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller have been doing a "Top 5" of every NFL position group. Bengals haven't earned top 5 yet. They came closest in DB. Pretty sure the Steelers have been top 5 in every category. They are currently doing ST. If the Bengals don't make Top 5, bfine will be phoning in.

[*bfine32*]

Just listened to PK and Milz break down Cincy. They love our kickers a coverage team, they hate our return game. Seemed they really didn't know who Brandon Wilson is. They kept referring to Alex Erickson's numbers in PR and KR. Give me some Wilson-Philips data so i can call and let them know what Steeler homers they are.

WTS, they still said they'll go in their top 10 but most likely not top 5

[OrangeTerrain]

(08-06-2020, 11:58 AM)fredtoast Wrote: In combined special teams

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/special-teams/2019

Their math is complicated but you can read about it in the link if you are interested.

FG/XP..............5th.....FG accuracy is weighted for distance of each kick.
KO coverage.....6th
KO return.........1st
Punt coverage...12th
Punt return.......25th....There is currently a thread discussing our PR options for 2020. We really need to improve in this area

They also do another analysis that measures how much of a advantage/disadvantage a team had based on the elements of the opposing teams special teams that were beyond their control (FG accuracy, depth of kick offs, length of punts) It is called "Hidden Points" and the Bengals had the 4th largest disadvatage in the league with (-10.3) hidden points.

Worst team in the nfl but fantastic special teams.

Small wins

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Huber has had a nice career here.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

I am thinking if Phillips doesn't take a starting spot at Corner he will really improve that PR rank.

This guy is a very good Returner, not to mention Wilson is the best right now on Kicks.

Also thinking we even get better at stopping big Returns with Wilson, ADG, Bailey and of course Bynes.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-06-2020, 05:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Just listened to PK and Milz break down Cincy. They love our kickers a coverage team, they hate our return game. Seemed they really didn't know who Brandon Wilson is. They kept referring to Alex Erickson's numbers in PR and KR. Give me some Wilson-Philips data so i can call and let them know what Steeler homers they are.

WTS, they still said they'll go in their top 10 but most likely not top 5

Idiots don't even know who the best Kick Returner in the NFL was last season....

[samhain]

(08-06-2020, 01:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller have been doing a "Top 5" of every NFL position group. Bengals haven't earned top 5 yet. They came closest in DB. Pretty sure the Steelers have been top 5 in every category. They are currently doing ST. If the Bengals don't make Top 5, bfine will be phoning in.

I've been disagreed with about it on here before, but I'm not as impressed by Pittsburgh as many here and in the national media seem to be.  I grant that the front 7 on defense is pretty impressive, but I just don't have the same fear of that offense anymore.  Conner isn't overly special, Schuster was exposed as a guy that's not quite a true number 1 last year, and Ben is old and banged up.  I know that dismissing them is dangerous, but I just don't have the same fear that I had when Bell and Brown were there.  Those two were legitimately considered two of the best weapons in the game for several years.  I still think it will be tough sledding for Ben without those two.

Also, I never have a high regard for Steeler DBs as a collective group, and this season is no different.

[samhain]

(08-06-2020, 06:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am thinking if Phillips doesn't take a starting spot at Corner he will really improve that PR rank.

This guy is a very good Returner, not to mention Wilson is the best right now on Kicks.

Also thinking we even get better at stopping big Returns with Wilson, ADG, Bailey and of course Bynes.

I see no chance that Philips takes a starting spot without an injury to a starter.  Jackson's going to play, and Waynes/Alexander didn't get signed to sit behind him.  I look at Phiilips as a still-developing corner with a high upside that may get a shot at WJ3's spot should he not re-sign here.  He has a knack for big plays, but his tackling/coverage could use some fine-tuning.

[fredtoast]

You have to be pretty damn good to keep your job when the head coach gets replaced. Darrin Simmons has done a solid job.

I'm sure there are plenty of ways to nit pick at the way these rankings are compiled, but Simmons has such a large sample size (17 years as head of Bengals ST) it shows he is pretty consistent. Bengals have finished in the top ten 6 times in the last nine years. When Simmons took over in '03 the Bengals ST had ranked 30th and 32nd the 2 previous years. They ranked in the top half of the legue his first year and top ten in his second. They have ranked in the top half of the league 11 times.

He has produced a First Team All Pro KR (Adam Jones '14), and Pro Bowlers at punter (Huber '14), PK (Shayne Graham '05), coverage (Cedric Peerman '15) and even long snapper (Clark Harris'17).

[*bfine32*]

(08-06-2020, 06:58 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Idiots don't even know who the best Kick Returner in the NFL was last season....

They do now

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-06-2020, 08:13 PM)samhain Wrote: I see no chance that Philips takes a starting spot without an injury to a starter.  Jackson's going to play, and Waynes/Alexander didn't get signed to sit behind him.  I look at Phillips as a still-developing corner with a high upside that may get a shot at WJ3's spot should he not re-sign here.  He has a knack for big plays, but his tackling/coverage could use some fine-tuning.

I don't know Sam, with the way both Waynes and WJ3 have covered at times and the way they don't come up with many 
interceptions the coaches better look at Phillips IMO. This guy is a ballhawk and is really good in coverage. I hope the new 
coaches have done away with the thought of always starting a player because where he is drafted or what he is paid.

Alexander is the starting Slot, not a boundary Corner like WJ3, Waynes and Phillips are.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-06-2020, 08:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: They do now

Well done Bfine.

[WiregrassBenGal]

(08-06-2020, 06:33 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Huber has had a nice career here.

Kevin is an excellent punter. I am still furious that that Pittsburgh thug player rearranged his jaw on that play that time. 

[jfkbengals]

(08-06-2020, 01:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller have been doing a "Top 5" of every NFL position group. Bengals haven't earned top 5 yet. They came closest in DB. Pretty sure the Steelers have been top 5 in every category. They are currently doing ST. If the Bengals don't make Top 5, bfine will be phoning in.

(08-06-2020, 05:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Just listened to PK and Milz break down Cincy. They love our kickers a coverage team, they hate our return game. Seemed they really didn't know who Brandon Wilson is. They kept referring to Alex Erickson's numbers in PR and KR. Give me some Wilson-Philips data so i can call and let them know what Steeler homers they are.

WTS, they still said they'll go in their top 10 but most likely not top 5

Did you call in?

Coming back from a break after they finished us, they gave the entire league list due to several requests from tweets during the break.  We were tied for 4th on their list.

[*bfine32*]

(08-06-2020, 10:41 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Did you call in?

Coming back from a break after they finished us, they gave the entire league list due to several requests from tweets during the break.  We were tied for 4th on their list.

I did and didn't have to wait to get on the air. They kept with the "well we put them in our top 10" and I granted them that it's just you said the return game was a weakness and used Erickson's 4 returns as an indicator. I let them know we had the best kick returner (statistically) in the NFL better than Corderrlle Patterson on Milz' "beloved Bears". They wouldn't drop the "return game is a weakness" stance because of Erickson. But I feel when they relook their top 10 to determine top 5 I have a feeling they'll consider who Brandon Wilson is.

What made me equally "upset" with their AFC North analysis was the Balt was terrible in every ST stat except FG Kicker but they got top 10 consideration mainly because Harbaugh is their HC. Hell when they started to analyze the Bengals Milz said they have new ST coordinator Darrin Simmons. PK corrected him on that. 

[impactplaya]

I think the Bengals were the only NFL team to have 2 different players to return kickoffs for TDs. Yeah I know Phillips TD got called back. But it's a total horse feathers call on Tate to bring it back

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-06-2020, 08:10 PM)samhain Wrote: I've been disagreed with about it on here before, but I'm not as impressed by Pittsburgh as many here and in the national media seem to be.  I grant that the front 7 on defense is pretty impressive, but I just don't have the same fear of that offense anymore.  Conner isn't overly special, Schuster was exposed as a guy that's not quite a true number 1 last year, and Ben is old and banged up.  I know that dismissing them is dangerous, but I just don't have the same fear that I had when Bell and Brown were there.  Those two were legitimately considered two of the best weapons in the game for several years.  I still think it will be tough sledding for Ben without those two.

Also, I never have a high regard for Steeler DBs as a collective group, and this season is no different.

agree 

[HarleyDog]

(08-08-2020, 11:21 AM)impactplaya Wrote: I think the Bengals were the only NFL team to have 2 different players  to return kickoffs for TDs. Yeah I know Phillips TD got called back. But it's a total horse feathers call on Tate to bring it back

Horse feathers?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-08-2020, 10:43 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I did and didn't have to wait to get on the air. They kept with the "well we put them in our top 10" and I granted them that it's just you said the return game was a weakness and used Erickson's 4 returns as an indicator. I let them know we had the best kick returner (statistically) in the NFL better than Corderrlle Patterson on Milz' "beloved Bears". They wouldn't drop the "return game is a weakness" stance because of Erickson. But I feel when they relook their top 10 to determine top 5 I have a feeling they'll consider who Brandon Wilson is.

What made me equally "upset" with their AFC North analysis was the Balt was terrible in every ST stat except FG Kicker but they got top 10 consideration mainly because Harbaugh is their HC. Hell when they started to analyze the Bengals Milz said they have new ST coordinator Darrin Simmons. PK corrected him on that. 

Man, these dudes are all mixed up...