"Unguardable"

[*jason*]

(08-16-2020, 10:52 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And honestly Eifert only had one good season. Mostly TD’s (sound familiar?). Nobody ever labeled him a bust though...

I look at Ross more of a disappointment than a bust so far. A true bust to me is someone that can’t even play in the league. Price is much closer to that than Ross, imo. I guarantee there’d be more interest in the former if/when they become available.

I'd agree if Ross were drafted in the 20s like Eifert. He's a top 10 pick though... Maybe not a complete bust, but a huge disappointment. I remember watching him week one last year... He started off rough, then went off... I thought he'd arrived.

[Essex Johnson]

(08-16-2020, 11:35 PM)jason Wrote: TD to catch ratio?... Lol.

He's scored TDs in losing efforts. Give me catches and yards... And health. They guy's missed half his games. He's invisible half the time he does play. The 5-1 record that was pointed out when Ross and AJ are both healthy had much more to do with AJ Green. He's been the biggest factor for Bengals wins of any single player. When he plays, there's a chance we can win, when he doesn't... We don't.

John Ross has played all of one good game in his career, and has some weird TD to catch ratio that isn't sustainable.... People pointing that out aren't hating. That's the truth.

thank you for bringing some fact and logic to the conversation... Ross has been a bust to this point.. i hope he has a good year but he is far down the list of most important to either improve or impact the team this year to be a success so im not that worried about his contribution as a whole this year compared to many others on the team.

[impactplaya]

(08-16-2020, 11:35 PM)jason Wrote: TD to catch ratio?... Lol.

He's scored TDs in losing efforts. Give me catches and yards... And health. They guy's missed half his games. He's invisible half the time he does play. The 5-1 record that was pointed out when Ross and AJ are both healthy had much more to do with AJ Green. He's been the biggest factor for Bengals wins of any single player. When he plays, there's a chance we can win, when he doesn't... We don't.

John Ross has played all of one good game in his career, and has some weird TD to catch ratio that isn't sustainable.... People pointing that out aren't hating. That's the truth.

Has Ross ever cost the Bengals a game ? 
Football is a team effort. I can think of other issues that plaqued this team worse than John Ross 
And 2 of the guys are no longer here 

[Essex Johnson]

(08-16-2020, 10:52 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And honestly Eifert only had one good season. Mostly TD’s (sound familiar?). Nobody ever labeled him a bust though...

I look at Ross more of a disappointment than a bust so far. A true bust to me is someone that can’t even play in the league. Price is much closer to that than Ross, imo. I guarantee there’d be more interest in the former if/when they become available.

Many people look at busts that dont perform to the level of their draft pick.. A 5th rounder that does not perform well is usually not looked as a bust.. a top ten pick is... and have no clue how you think there is that much difference between Ross or Price as a bust.. Ross is not even considered a starter so either is Price... it is almost impossible also to compare a WR and a lineman on individual performance with the nature of each position .. Ross also is a higher pick which also leads to a higher level of overall performance level... 

I tend to give players till end of 3 years to start placing labels on them.. Ross has 3 years in so at this point yes i would label him a bust heading into his 4th year.. Price has two years in... so this to me is his label year... 

[*jason*]

(08-16-2020, 11:40 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Has Ross ever cost the Bengals a game ? 
Football is a team effort. I can think of other issues that plaqued this team worse than John Ross 
And 2 of the guys are no longer here 

I'm not disagreeing that he hasn't single handedly lost them a game. He sure hasn't won them one either. With zero effort I can think of 2 games that the other top 10 pick WR on the team has won for them though. Week 2 2018... 3 TDs in the first half, and 2015 in Baltimore... A 60 or 70 yrd 4th quarter TD to answer Baltimore taking the lead... That was the first time they'd trailed all year.

I can think of Tyler Boyd winning one too.

Ross has played 1 good game.

[*jason*]

(08-16-2020, 11:47 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Many people look at busts that dont perform to the level of their draft pick.. A 5th rounder that does not perform well is usually not looked as a bust.. a top ten pick is... and have no clue how you think there is that much difference between Ross or Price as a bust.. Ross is not even considered a starter so either is Price... it is almost impossible also to compare a WR and a lineman on individual performance with the nature of each position .. Ross also is a higher pick which also leads to a higher level of overall performance level... 

I tend to give players till end of 3 years to start placing labels on them.. Ross has 3 years in so at this point yes i would label him a bust heading into his 4th year.. Price has two years in... so this to me is his label year... 

Even if Ross explodes this year... Do you pay him?

[Essex Johnson]

(08-16-2020, 11:40 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Has Ross ever cost the Bengals a game ? 
Football is a team effort. I can think of other issues that plaqued this team worse than John Ross 
And 2 of the guys are no longer here 

and most likely Ross will follow them out the door after this year

[*jason*]

(08-16-2020, 11:49 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: and most likely Ross will follow them out the door after this year

Both of those knuckleheads made major contributions to winning seasons too.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-16-2020, 11:39 PM)jason Wrote: I'd agree if Ross were drafted in the 20s like Eifert. He's a top 10 pick though... Maybe not a complete bust, but a huge disappointment. I remember watching him week one last year... He started off rough, then went off... I thought he'd arrived.

Eh, a 1st round pick is a 1st round pick. And we should have actually picked at 12 the year we took Price. We traded back and ended up with him and Cordy Glenn. Great value there...

AJ was a stud from day one, but it did take our last top 10 pick before that (Smith) a while to pan out, too. I still think Ross can be a good-great player. Unfortunately at this point it might not be for us. Even if he lights it up this year I can’t really see us bringing both him and AJ back. Not after drafting Tee.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-16-2020, 11:47 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Many people look at busts that dont perform to the level of their draft pick.. A 5th rounder that does not perform well is usually not looked as a bust.. a top ten pick is... and have no clue how you think there is that much difference between Ross or Price as a bust.. Ross is not even considered a starter so either is Price... it is almost impossible also to compare a WR and a lineman on individual performance with the nature of each position .. Ross also is a higher pick which also leads to a higher level of overall performance level... 

I tend to give players till end of 3 years to start placing labels on them.. Ross has 3 years in so at this point yes i would label him a bust heading into his 4th year.. Price has two years in... so this to me is his label year... 

Umm...yes he is. AJ and Ross are the starters on the outside, with Boyd in the slot.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-16-2020, 10:52 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And honestly Eifert only had one good season. Mostly TD’s (sound familiar?). Nobody ever labeled him a bust though...

I look at Ross more of a disappointment than a bust so far. A true bust to me is someone that can’t even play in the league. Price is much closer to that than Ross, imo. I guarantee there’d be more interest in the former if/when they become available.

I think the big thing is that Eifert started his rookie years and produced. 39/445/2 as a #2 TE in an offense where he was competing for targets with AJ Green/Marvin Jones/Jermaine Gresham/Giovani Bernard/Mohamed Sanu. He also was a Pro Bowler in 2015. It's hard to be labeled a bust when you go to the Pro Bowl (and I don't think he went as an alternate either, but an actual Pro Bowler).

Eifert through 3 years as a 21st overall pick TE: 94/1,097/15 ... Pro Bowl x1
Ross through 3 years as a 9th overall pick WR: 49/716/10

Bengals went to the playoffs each of the first 3 years Eifert was with the team and he contributed to two of those years. That plus the Pro Bowl season is what saved him from being labeled as a bust.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-17-2020, 12:40 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Umm...yes he is. AJ and Ross are the starters on the outside, with Boyd in the slot.

Yup. Ross has started 19 of the 24 games he's played in including all of his last 12.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-17-2020, 01:01 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think the big thing is that Eifert started his rookie years and produced. 39/445/2 as a #2 TE in an offense where he was competing for targets with AJ Green/Marvin Jones/Jermaine Gresham/Giovani Bernard/Mohamed Sanu. He also was a Pro Bowler in 2015. It's hard to be labeled a bust when you go to the Pro Bowl (and I don't think he went as an alternate either, but an actual Pro Bowler).

Eifert through 3 years as a 21st overall pick TE: 94/1,097/15 ... Pro Bowl x1
Ross through 3 years as a 9th overall pick WR: 49/716/10

Bengals went to the playoffs each of the first 3 years Eifert was with the team and he contributed to two of those years. That plus the Pro Bowl season is what saved him from being labeled as a bust.

But again he mostly went to the Pro Bowl because of the TD’s. 52 rec and 615 yds is nothing special for a receiving TE in this day and age. At least compared to the big boys (Kelce, Kittle, Gronk, etc).

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-16-2020, 11:36 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: so what you are saying is you are ok with a player that averages less than 3 catches a and less than 35 yards a game.. but gets you a TD every other game.. WOW...

It just shows a bit different picture than your statement about the rest of the league (outside Seattle) shutting him down for 3 years. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-16-2020, 11:49 PM)jason Wrote: Even if Ross explodes this year... Do you pay him?

One of the only scenarios I see paying Ross is if he has a big year and AJ Green doesn't stay healthy and when he is healthy, he doesn't produce.  I see very little chance of that happening.  I don't think you can pay Boyd, Green, and Ross big deals...that is likely a part of why Higgins was drafted.  It doesn't mean I give up on Ross as I still believe if he is out there it changes the way teams defend the Bengals and that helps the entire offense.  

Another very unlikely scenario is they decide to pay the three WRs and go on the cheap at TE.  That's a remote possibility, but I can see them spending on Mixon instead.  

[Essex Johnson]

(08-16-2020, 11:49 PM)jason Wrote: Even if Ross explodes this year... Do you pay him?

Depends if AJ performs like the past Boyd puts numbers up again and Higgins shows value you might  offer could a limited contract 

[Essex Johnson]

(08-17-2020, 07:14 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: It just shows a bit different picture than your statement about the rest of the league (outside Seattle) shutting him down for 3 years. 

I did not post on Seahawks what my post actually does is put it in a per game picture of pedestrian  numbers

[Sled21]

(08-15-2020, 01:44 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Get ready, the board haters of John Ross who openly root for him to fail will be attacking you soon.

Pointing out the fact that John Ross has not been able to put together an NFL career since he was drafted is not openly rooting for him to fail. I would love nothing more than for him to come back and make himself the #1 receiver in the NFL. But yet he hasn't.... that's on him, not on fans wanting him to fail.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-16-2020, 12:41 AM)samhain Wrote: I'd happily reap the benefits of a monster year from Ross, but no way in hell I extend him for big money.  

He is risky no doubt.

[*jason*]

(08-17-2020, 07:19 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: One of the only scenarios I see paying Ross is if he has a big year and AJ Green doesn't stay healthy and when he is healthy, he doesn't produce.  I see very little chance of that happening.  I don't think you can pay Boyd, Green, and Ross big deals...that is likely a part of why Higgins was drafted.  It doesn't mean I give up on Ross as I still believe if he is out there it changes the way teams defend the Bengals and that helps the entire offense.  

Another very unlikely scenario is they decide to pay the three WRs and go on the cheap at TE.  That's a remote possibility, but I can see them spending on Mixon instead.  

I knock Ross a lot, but I wouldn't have been opposed to hedging my bets, and trying to extend him for 2 years this off-season. More than he makes now, but not too WR money either... Too late now I suppose.