Nervous? Not Joe

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2020, 04:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Herbert has an absolute canon, but Joe and Tua still went ahead of him. I keep hearing Joe throws a “very catchable ball” coming out of camp.

Burrow has plenty of arm strength to succeed in the NFL.  But when talking about "prospects" his arm strength is the reason he was not on the level of guys like Elway and Luck.

[Sled21]

(08-20-2020, 04:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Herbert has an absolute canon, but Joe and Tua still went ahead of him. I keep hearing Joe throws a “very catchable ball” coming out of camp.

If having a cannon for an arm was all that important, Dolegaga would be our starting QB....

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-20-2020, 04:04 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Do you agree with the NYG that Bobby Hart was not worth keeping even on a terrible OL?

He picks and chooses. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-20-2020, 04:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I agree with everything you say.

The problem with most of the people around here is that they never even heard of Burrow before 2019.  But, like you, I saw him play in 2018.  No one was raving about his superhuman swagger back then.

Here you go caring about 2 years ago again. Two years ago Lamar was sitting behind Joe freaking Flacco. Things can change in a hurry.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-20-2020, 03:58 PM)odysseus32 Wrote: Don't get me wrong, I'm saying that if there is any question about Burrow it's his arm strength.  I think it's fine, but it's not the big time NFL arm you see scouts hyping up.  And my perspective on his arm comes from a few of the smaller games this past season in which he was able to get away with not being able to blast it 60 yards down field.  It's quite possible that he just never tried to hit  50/50 deep bombs in the big games unless he knew his guy was gonna get open.  

I'm just trying to see it without tinted glasses, because truth be told, I think Burrow is going to have success wherever he goes.  He's got the mentality, he's got the accuracy, he can keep plays alive, he's a workaholic.  I just see a lot of people (admittedly, mostly LSU fans) thinking he is going to come in an rock the world.  And he definitely might, but I think he is going to take some lumps.  I'm excited to see him progress.

I agree with the sense that we don't know how strong Burrow's arm is but as you say, it's strong enough.

The thing is, you don't need a cannon to be a successful QB. In fact, I'd argue that most of the greatest QBs didn't have cannons: Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Joe Montana, etc. That said, imagine if Burrow truly does have a cannon but he's so good at using just enough strength that we will only ever get glimpses of it.

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2020, 04:04 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Do you agree with the NYG that Bobby Hart was not worth keeping even on a terrible OL?

Yes.  Bobby Hart was horrible until last year.

If you don't believe me I will pull up some comments I made when we gave him that big contract after 2018.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-20-2020, 04:06 PM)Sled21 Wrote: If having a cannon for an arm was all that important, Dolegaga would be our starting QB....

Ryan Mallet would be a starter in the league and only die hard NFL fans would be saying, "Who's Andy Dalton?"

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2020, 04:07 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Here you go caring about 2 years ago again. Two years ago Lamar was sitting behind Joe freaking Flacco. Things can change in a hurry.

But I am worried that the "things that changed" at LSU were more about Joe Brady more than Burrow.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-20-2020, 04:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes.  Bobby Hart was horrible until last year.

If you don't believe me I will pull up some comments I made when we gave him that big contract after 2018.

Ah ok. So he went from horrible to slightly less horrible...

Pay that man!

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-20-2020, 04:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But I am worried that the "things that changed" at LSU were more about Joe Brady more than Burrow.

Joe still ran the system and he’s the one that balled out. Otherwise Brady must be some next level genius that’s going to make Teddy Bridgewater and MVP and win the Panthers a Super Bowl.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Burrow's OL: Wins Joe Moore award for best OL in the country. Has 2 3rd round picks, 1 4th round pick, 2 UDFA who signed with teams.

Burrow's WRs: 1 1st round pick, plus 1 guy who won the Fred Biletnikoff award as the nation's top receiver and unnanimous All American that will be a 1st round pick next year when he's eligible.

Burrow's RB: 1 1st round pick who ran for 1,400 yards at 6.6 YPC and 16 TD with another 450 of receiving

Burrow's TEs: 1 7th round pick, 1 UDFA who signed with a team

Burrow's OC: Got an NFL OC job.

- - - - - - - - - -

Somehow the best OL in the country, the best WR group in the country, an elite RB, good TE, and an NFL-caliber OC equates to Burrow had a bad OL that he masterfully ignored by being so cool under pressure, he throws receivers open regardless of separation, and he's basically God's gift to football.

Dude is good at football, but he had a STACKED team. Basically he was playing with an entire offense of NFL talent (5 OL, 2 WR, 1 RB, 2 TE is 10 plus him, that's an entire offense worth of NFL talent)... but against college defenses that are filled with guys with no NFL chance.

Expectations are a bit high.

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2020, 04:20 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Joe still ran the system and he’s the one that balled out. Otherwise Brady must be some next level genius that’s going to make Teddy Bridgewater and MVP and win the Panthers a Super Bowl.

So why did Burrow wait until his fifth season in college to become a good QB?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-20-2020, 04:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Burrow's OL: Wins Joe Moore award for best OL in the country. Has 2 3rd round picks, 1 4th round pick, 2 UDFA who signed with teams.

Burrow's WRs: 1 1st round pick, plus 1 guy who won the Fred Biletnikoff award as the nation's top receiver and unnanimous All American that will be a 1st round pick next year when he's eligible.

Burrow's RB: 1 1st round pick who ran for 1,400 yards at 6.6 YPC and 16 TD with another 450 of receiving

Burrow's TEs: 1 7th round pick, 1 UDFA who signed with a team

Burrow's OC: Got an NFL OC job.

- - - - - - - - - -

Somehow that equates to Burrow had a bad OL that he masterfully ignored by being so cool under pressure, he throws receivers open regardless of separation, and he's basically God's gift to football.

Dude is good at football, but he had a STACKED team. Basically he was playing with an entire offense of NFL talent (5 OL, 2 WR, 1 RB, 2 TE is 10 plus him, that's an entire offense worth of NFL talent)... but against college defenses that are filled with guys with no NFL chance.

Expectations are a bit high.

Some of you act like there’s not crazy stacked teams every year in college. Look at some of the recent Alabama and Clemson teams. Ofc he had a ton of talent around him. Especially at WR (he will here too). He still had the single best season ever. It’s the Bengals job to give him what he needs to replicate that at the NFL level.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-20-2020, 04:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So why did Burrow wait until his fifth season in college to become a good QB?

He didn’t. He was always good. Otherwise he doesn’t even land a spot on 2 top programs. It took that long for him become great. Many factors were probably at play. He worked his ass off and improved his game, Brady being hired as pass coordinator (I think people forget he wasn’t even the OC), he developed better chemistry with his WR’s, they opened up the offense and gave him the chance, etc..

[odysseus32]

(08-20-2020, 04:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So why did Burrow wait until his fifth season in college to become a good QB?

So, I think this is where the two camps on Burrow diverge.  I had MANY arguments with people on TigerDroppings during the off-season between 2018 and 2019 that Burrow was in fact a very good QB.  I predicted that he would throw for 3500 and 30 TDs in 2019.  I slotted him as, I think, the 3rd best SEC QB behind Tua and Fromm.  My personal thoughts were that it was evident that he can manage and take over a game.  He did it against Auburn, UGA, Texas A&M (in losing fashion), and UCF.  There were many instances in 2018 where you saw that he had it, he was just in a new offense.  I was drooling waiting to see him with a full off-season with his WRs under his belt, as well as a year+ in the same environment.  I had no clue he was going to do what he did last season, but to say that nobody thought he was good before 2019 is false.  A handful of us over on Tigerdroppings knew he was good, we just didn't understand just how unshakable he would be when put in the right situations.

But I can understand how people get the impression that he was average in 2018, because statistically he was.  But his on the field play week in and week out told an entirely different story.

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-20-2020, 04:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes.  Bobby Hart still horrible last year.

Fixed this for you. :andy:

[Nicomo Cosca]

Tiger droppings? Lol

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2020, 04:31 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Some of you act like there’s not crazy stacked teams every year in college

No college team has ever had more players drafted since the draft became 7 rounds in 1994.

And no team ever had more players taken in the first three rounds in the entire history of the draft.

And that does not include the best WR in the country who was not draft eligible this year.

[Sled21]

(08-20-2020, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No college team has ever had more players drafted since the draft became 7 rounds in 1994.

And no team ever had more players taken in the first three rounds in the history of the draft.

And that does not include the best WR in the country who was not draft eligible this year.

Yep, that team was stacked alright. Heck, their Quarterback even went #1 overall......

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-20-2020, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No college team has ever had more players drafted since the draft became 7 rounds in 1994.

And no team ever had more players taken in the first three rounds in the entire history of the draft.

And that does not include the best WR in the country who was not draft eligible this year.

Right but other teams have matched those numbers.

OSU had 14 total in 2004

OSU had 10 in the first 3 rounds in 2016

Neither time did the Buckeys even win the championship, let alone set the record books on fire like Burrow did. It’s almost like being on a stacked team doesn’t guarantee anything...