We'll Learn a Lot Over 5 Days (First Two Games)

[Wes Mantooth]

So as everyone probably knows, we open with the Chargers, followed by the Browns. The first game is on Sunday, and the second is just five days later on Thursday.

I thought it might be interesting to have a conversation about these two games, and about how we might feel with differeing results. I think they will be very telling, as far as where we're at.

First up we have the Chargers. This is definitely a winnable game.

1.) It's a home game.
2.) It's against another last place team from 2019 (5-11).
3.) They have new a QB. That QB is a retread, and is a below average starter.
4.) It's a West Coast team (travel goes both ways)

Next up we have the Browns. This is also a winnable game.

We split the series with these guys last year. We beat them by 10 to close out the year. And we lost them to by 8, just a few weeks prior. (We outscore them in the series)

Even in the loss, the the game was competitive throughout. It's not like some of other games where we scored some late, almost meaningless points, to make it look close. It was close.

These guys have a lot of talent, but they're still the Browns. They're also a rivalry game, a division opponent, and far, far from great.

So here's how I would feel depending on how we fare after these games.

2-0

2-0 is a heckuva start. Winnable games or not, this is nothing to sneeze at. For a 2-14 team to match their win total in a 5 day stretch would be fantastic. And to do that with a rookie QB? Awesome.

This is definitely an attainable goal. If we truly believe we've improved our team there is no way not to believe this isn't a strong possiblity.

0-2

This would be an absolute disaster. Two games against two not so great teams, and you come out winless... Not good.

This is unacceptable. Even after only 2 games, any confidence I have left in Zach Talor may be gone. This cannot happen.

No more excuses.

1-1

This is still encouraging. Getting a W by week 1 or 2, instead of week 12, is progress.

I wouldn't be doing cartwheels or anything, but as long as we can win one of these games I will remain cautiously optimistic about being truly competitive this season.

Curious to hear what you all think.

Obviously how we play, and how we look, matters too. Simple record totals don't tell the whole story. But figured this makes for decent discussion. And I think we're past the point of moral victories.

I can't believe after all of this waiting, and all of the debates and bs, and everything else, we're 9 days away from the season. And that once it hit I'll get to Bengals games in 5 days. I can't wait!!!

[Mer]

Considering the first few games are pretty much our preseason I'm going to do my best not to get too high or low based on the results. WTS if we go 2-0 it will be hard to harness my enthusiasm and expectations.

[*SHRacerX*]

I think the most likely scenario is the Bengals get the win in a close game against the Chargers. I simply don't fear Tyrod Taylor and their defense took a huge blow in losing Derwin James.

The Browns game has so many variables. They travel to Baltimore week 1 to play the ratbirds. The Ravens traditionally start very strong and I don't see the same out of the Browns. What makes it toughest for the Bengals is if they win week 1 and travel to a Browns team on a short week coming off an opening day loss (and potentially a big loss) then the Browns will have that "backs against the wall" mentality. The Bengals also looked so slow and beaten up in week 2 last year (how much of that was the travel and black jerseys, I don't know) that I wonder if ZTs idea to have "the healthiest team and the freshest team" backfired a bit as they were super sore after week 1. Though, in all fairness, I can't imagine any team truly being prepared for the rigors of a full games especially this year with no preseason games.

I don't want to give Cleveland any credit for simply having a strong roster of weapons as they STILL have a number of potential issues in the trenches. Just like we will find out a lot about our team's coaches in these first two games, we will see what the Browns have in their new coaching staff.

My bet would be 1-1, but my heart says Burrow will not go down to Baker. If they start 2-0....holy shit. It gives me the chills.

[HarleyDog]

(09-04-2020, 09:58 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: 0-2

This would be an absolute disaster.  Two games against two not so great teams, and you come out winless... Not good.

Not an ideal start but I'm willing to give benefit of doubt here if this happens. No preseason games is tough with a rookie QB and well, when you play a scrimmage against your own D, forgive me if I don't remotely see that as challenging as a preseason game.

Quote:This is unacceptable.  Even after only 2 games, any confidence I have left in Zach Talor may be gone.  This cannot happen.

Dude - for real? This is his 2nd year as HC. This isn't Marvin Lewis and he will get it together. Zac has actually got this FO off it's ass and started making some good off-season moves. He makes players earn their spots and he doesn't coddle. He won't have a 53 man jail roster because he want's leaders, not thugs. I love the direction he has steered this organization.

Quote:No more excuses. 

Zac won't give you any. He will take responsibility and correct it if he can and if not, try something different. 

[sandwedge]

(09-04-2020, 10:34 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think the most likely scenario is the Bengals get the win in a close game against the Chargers.  I simply don't fear Tyrod Taylor and their defense took a huge blow in losing Derwin James.  

The Browns game has so many variables.  They travel to Baltimore week 1 to play the ratbirds.  The Ravens traditionally start very strong and I don't see the same out of the Browns.  What makes it toughest for the Bengals is if they win week 1 and travel to a Browns team on a short week coming off an opening day loss (and potentially a big loss) then the Browns will have that "backs against the wall" mentality.  The Bengals also looked so slow and beaten up in week 2 last year (how much of that was the travel and black jerseys, I don't know) that I wonder if ZTs idea to have "the healthiest team and the freshest team" backfired a bit as they were super sore after week 1.  Though, in all fairness, I can't imagine any team truly being prepared for the rigors of a full games especially this year with no preseason games.  

I don't want to give Cleveland any credit for simply having a strong roster of weapons as they STILL have a number of potential issues in the trenches.  Just like we will find out a lot about our team's coaches in these first two games, we will see what the Browns have in their new coaching staff.

My bet would be 1-1, but my heart says Burrow will not go down to Baker.  If they start 2-0....holy shit.  It gives me the chills.

This is where I am at.Both games are winnable, but I have no clue as to what kind of condition the Browns are in. I'd like my chances on that Thursday night having just played the Chargers instead of having just played the Ravens.

[sandwedge]

(09-04-2020, 11:01 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Not an ideal start but I'm willing to give benefit of doubt here if this happens. No preseason games is tough with a rookie QB and well, when you play a scrimmage against your own D, forgive me if I don't remotely see that as challenging as a preseason game.


Dude - for real? This is his 2nd year as HC. This isn't Marvin Lewis and he will get it together. Zac has actually got this FO off it's ass and started making some good off-season moves. He makes players earn their spots and he doesn't coddle. He won't have a 53 man jail roster because he want's leaders, not thugs. I love the direction he has steered this organization.


Zac won't give you any. He will take responsibility and correct it if he can and if not, try something different. 

Spot on Dog! Glad someone else gets it!

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-04-2020, 11:17 AM)sandwedge Wrote: This is where I am at.Both games are winnable, but I have no clue as to what kind of condition the Browns are in. I'd like my chances on that Thursday night having just played the Chargers instead of having just played the Ravens.

And traveling...

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-04-2020, 10:27 AM)Mer Wrote: Considering the first few games are pretty much our preseason I'm going to do my best not to get too high or low based on the results. WTS if we go 2-0 it will be hard to harness my enthusiasm and expectations.

Agree

I don't think you can read to much into the first couple games no matter the outcome.

[impactplaya]

Living outside of Cleveland Im in tune with the state
Of the Browns. They have alot of questions marks.

Van Pelt and Stefanski had to come out rework Mayfields
Mechanics. He still learning the position. Hes been up and down
In practice

1st Rd pick Jedrick Willis is struggling moving from RT to LT.
The Browns have issues at RG. C JC Tretter is hurt.
Their oline is in worse shape than the Bengals.

The Browns secondary has been hit hard by Injuries.
They traded for Ronnie Harrison.

The Browns offense is still behind. Yes they have talent up and down. But the offense is not in sync.

Stefanski is a upgrade over Kitchens. But hes still a rookie HC.

They are beatable.

Think when the Browns came to Cincy on a Thursday night
Game killed the Bengals with Brian Hoyer. Andy wet the bed that game.
A Bengals win on Thursday night is not impossible in Cleveland

[Hammerstripes]

I don't think we are going to learn a whole lot in the next few weeks other than what the coaching staff has to offer this year.

There's going to be a ton of ups and downs with a rookie QB. I get it, Burrow should be a special QB, but he's still a rookie with zero game experience.

I'm more concerned about where this team is in November and December. That's going to be the springboard for next year.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

I agree with those above (Harley, Sandwedge, Bengalfan74) who caution not to put too much emphasis on the first two games of a season with a rookie QB and no preseason.

I could honestly see any scenario, and won't get too high or two low, especially regarding records. I mean, if we get blown out and we're obviously being drubbed up and down the field, I'd be pretty down. But competitive losses won't kills us, especially since our championship window really opens in 2021. This is a transition year.

And let's remember, these games are likely going to swing on stupid happenstance - fumbles, penalties, muffed punts, whatever - that could go either for or against us. The refs have no preseason to shake the rust off. I'll wait at least until the bye week to make any real judgements.

[jfkbengals]

My assumption is we will lose the second game. There is a tremendous disadvantage to the road team on Thursday games, and we have even less time to recover having the 4:00 start time on Sunday. We will be in a big hole if we don’t beat LA.

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-04-2020, 11:32 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Living outside of Cleveland Im in tune with the state
Of the Browns. They have alot of questions marks.

Van Pelt and Stefanski had to come out rework Mayfields
Mechanics. He still learning the position. Hes been up and down
In practice

1st Rd pick Jedrick Willis is struggling moving from RT to LT.
The Browns have issues at RG. C JC Tretter is hurt.
Their oline is in worse shape than the Bengals.

The Browns secondary has been hit hard by Injuries.
They traded for Ronnie Harrison.

The Browns offense is still behind. Yes they have talent up and down. But the offense is not in sync.

Stefanski is a upgrade over Kitchens. But hes still a rookie HC.

They are beatable.

Think when the Browns came to Cincy on a Thursday night
Game killed the Bengals with Brian Hoyer. Andy wet the bed that game.
A Bengals win on Thursday night is not impossible in Cleveland

If this is true, you could have Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, and Gronk out there in the skill positions and it wouldn't matter.  

I think Calais Campbell could create havoc on Mayfield.  I honestly want the Browns to win that game, though, and lose to the Bengals.  

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-04-2020, 11:01 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: 1.) No preseason games is tough with a rookie QB
2.) when you play a scrimmage against your own D, forgive me if I don't remotely see that as challenging as a preseason game.
3.) Dude - for real? This is his 2nd year as HC. This isn't Marvin Lewis and he will get it together.
4.) Zac has actually got this FO off it's ass and started making some good off-season moves.
5.)I love the direction he has steered this organization.
6.) Zac won't give you any. He will take responsibility and correct it if he can and if not, try something different. 

1.) It is, you are correct.  But the Chargers have a new QB, and the Browns have a new coach, and new coordinators. 

I would argue this offseason affects the Browns the most. While it's difficult for a rookie QB to step in this way, I think it's even more difficult to install an enitirely new staff, and try to insert a system and culture in this current situation.

2.) But every team is scrimmaging their own defense.  They're all not being challened by normal preseason competition.  

3.) Key word for me here is 2nd.  I was pretty forgiving last season, and actually defended quite a bit on here.  But now he's got a full year under his belt, he got the best draft position you could have, he got a ton in free agency, and he's got AJ and Jonah back.

I'm not saying I expect great things immediately.  But an 0-2 start would be such a demoralizer.  Last year may have been the worst in franchise history.  Because of that I think there's some added urgency to see some sembelence of success.

4.) I'm not so sure about this.  While I believe he was involved with who to target I don't think it was his influence that spurred the spending.  I think the empty seats and performance on the field did that more than anything.  If it was a result of Taylor, why didn't he get the spend more last year?

5.) I'd like to actually see that direction play out on the field.  As of right now, I don't know what it is yet.  0-2 would leave me doubting it a little more, from a coaching standpoint.

6.) Fwiw, I didn't mean excuses from Taylor.  I just meant in general.  I know we're all pumped about the new team, so I think it's not unrealstic to expect at a W out of these two games.

I kinda just wanted to clarify with the above.  I didn't mean to just straight rip Taylor or anything like that.  I'm actually pretty positive right now.  And I honestly would be more shocked if we went 0-2 than 2-0.  This team really needs to pull one of these games out IMO.  That's all.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(09-04-2020, 11:55 AM)jfkbengals Wrote: My assumption is we will lose the second game.  There is a tremendous disadvantage to the road team on Thursday games, and we have even less time to recover having the 4:00 start time on Sunday.  We will be in a big hole if we don’t beat LA.

I wonder how much homefield advantage will matter without fans though. 

I don't think the difference between 1:00 and 4:00 on Sunday will amount to much... it's the same number of sleeps after all. 

[Whatever]

Personally, I think we need to wait until at least after week 4 to start making judgements. The first two weeks of the season are normally a crapshoot with teams that turn out to suck looking like world beaters and teams that turn out to be great looking like they're in big trouble. That will be magnified because of COVID.

[motoarch]

Rookie QB that's not even getting a preseason snap and questionable OL.

Additional we've had the worst defense in the nfl 2 years running. Yeah we made some changes but in my opinion some of those are lateral moves that may not actually improve the team. I'm hoping good things from our rookie LBs but again these guys have never taken even a preseason snap so we'll need to be patient with them.


Expectations are too high. Fans need to allow for some growing pains this season and hope the team can build around our young talent for the future.

[BURROWorBUST]

Browns have a brand new HC who had to work through COVID conditions. I think that has to play a role in their 2020 season.

"Our offense is ferocious. Our defense is impregnable. We want the hearts of our opponents! We want to eat their children!” – Joe Burrow

[fredtoast]

(09-04-2020, 11:01 AM)HarleyDog Wrote:  Zac has actually got this FO off it's ass and started making some good off-season moves.

Yeah, by going 2-14 and emptying the stadium of fans.

Marvin could never get them to help him with free agent talent because he never sucked that bad.  They thought he could succeed without the top paid players in free agency.

[Sled21]

Why is it when I read some of you guys' posts, I read them in Eyore's voice in my head. Every single post is whoa is me.....