Shedding Salary (2021 Budget)

[KillerGoose]

This coming week should give more insight as to how good Cincinnati is. The Eagles look like a bad football team. If they come out and lose to Philly, then I am suspecting we are looking at a Top 5 pick (I think we are Top 10 regardless, the question is how bad are we?) We will have some interesting options there with the money that would be opened up by this.

-Improve the line via FA and draft someone like Ja'Marr Chase?
-Improve the defense via FA and draft Penei Sewell?
-Improve both of the lines via FA and trade the pick for more value (dependent on exact pick)?

Cincinnati will have the opportunity to really lay the foundation for the next five years, and it will be very important. I think that we will see some new coaches come in this off-season.

[Brimey]

(09-21-2020, 02:03 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I can already see Taylor getting a pass for this season though. The pandemic, rookie QB, injuries, etc.

I will be absolutely SHOCKED if they fire him this offseason.

I think it would depend how badly the season goes. If they go 2-14 I would not be shocked. It think anything over 5 wins would make him completely secure as it would be deemed an improvement. 

I'm in the air about Taylor. I'm not demanding he be fired, but at the same time, two years, 100 plus million in free agents, and two drafts where you picked at the top or near it, should give an indication if this guy can do the job. So far he hasn't shown anything

[lone bengal]

Agree with other posters get younger and cut aging players. Going forward two premium positions that need to be addressed are obviously Right tackle and corner back. The corner position has become a glaring need because I’m not sure about resigning Jackson III , Alexander is a free agent after this season and I don’t think Wayne’s is a number 1. Tackles and corners are hard positions to fill most of the time the best ones are typically drafted in round 1 or you pay a high price for them in free agency, plus most teams don’t let good tackles walk. Looking at the free agent class for 2021 the best free agent lineman are guards led by Joe Thuney and Brandon Scherff. The Bengals typically don’t spend on guards but we might need to go that route. It would fill one less glaring hole on the line and then I would look to replace Hart with anybody serviceable.

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-21-2020, 02:03 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I can already see Taylor getting a pass for this season though. The pandemic, rookie QB, injuries, etc.

I will be absolutely SHOCKED if they fire him this offseason.

I don't disagree with you.  It would be definitely out of character for this front office to cut bait so soon.

That said, if they or anyone else tries to roll out the pandemic or injury excuse, I hope it falls on mostly deaf ears.

Every team is dealing with the pandemic.  In fact, as far as opt outs are concerned, we couldn't be doing any better.  Look at a team like the Patriots. 

And as far as injuries are concerned, all in all, I think we're in pretty good shape.  There's definitely a lot of teams that have it much worse in that department.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-21-2020, 02:17 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I don't disagree with you.  It would be definitely out of character for this front office to cut bait so soon.

That said, if they or anyone else tries to roll out the pandemic or injury excuse, I hope it falls on mostly deaf ears.

Every team is dealing with the pandemic.  In fact, as far as opt outs are concerned, we couldn't be doing any better.  Look at a team like the Patriots. 

And as far as injuries are concerned, all in all, I think we're in pretty good shape.  There's definitely a lot of teams that have it much worse in that department.

The pandemic excuse would probably mostly be used because we were the only team to start a rookie QB with no preseason. Herbert played yesterday, but Lynn claims he’s going to go back to Tyrod.

Now if Burrow has a really good season and wins OROY, and it’s clear he wasn’t part of the problem, but we still don’t win more than a few games...that excuse won’t have much of a leg to stand on.

[Whatever]

(09-21-2020, 01:05 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I think it's very doubtful we'd see this level of compensation for AJ if he walks.

I could be totally wrong, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but this how I understand the system.

1.) To even be eligible for compensatory picks, you have to lose more UFA's than you sign. (We'd need more guys to walk than what we sign)

2.) For AJ to be given a 3rd round value, he's have sign a deal that pays him an average salary that falls near the top of his position group. (I'm not sure of the %, or if it's all receivers or just those in FA class)

As it stand right now, I think any players we sign we'll probably cancel out those we let walk in terms of compensatory value.

And even if I'm wong on the above, I'm guessing AJ gets no more than 9 mil on the open market, unless he completely balls out.  As it stand right now, he's looking like a 3-6 mil dollar rental to me.

Like I said, I could be totally wrong on all this.  But I'd be shocked if we got a 3rd for AJ by letting him hit FA.

Unfortunately, this is AJ's 10th season in the league, meaning that like Whit when he left, a 6th is the maximum compensation we can get for him.  This was one of the reasons I was against tagging AJ.  If we had let him walk this year after 9 years in the league, he would have counted normally for comp pick purposes.

[Whatever]

(09-21-2020, 11:33 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I know we've had a lot of different talk about who we might move on from after the season. Who we could possible trade, who we could possibly cut, who we let walk etc.  I thought I'd simply list out a group a players that I think have the best possibility of not returning in 2021.  

I figured it would be nice to have a single thread where could discuss and debate who may stay and who may go as the season goes on.

Here is the list of guys I've come up with.  I'll list the player, followed by the 2021 cap savings, followed by possible type of departure.

(Note: I'm not saying all, or even most will be gone. Only that these are the most likely candidates.)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- AJ Green ------- 18.17 mil (Not resigned, money comes off books)

--- John Ross ------- 5.45 mil (Not resigned, money comes off books)

--- William Jackson - 9.95 mil (Not resigned, money comes off books)

--- Alex Erickson ---- 2.06 mil (Not resigned, money comes off books)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- Carlos Dunlap -- 11.25 mil (Traded or released) *** Going into final year

--- Geno Atkins -----  9.60 mil (Traded or released) *** Two years left

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- Bobby Hart ------- 5.90 mil (Released) *** Going into final year

--- CJ Uzomah -------  5.25 mil (Released) *** Going into final year

--- Gio Bernard ------- 4.10 mil (Released) *** Going into final year

--- Billy Price --------- 2.08 mil (Released) *** Going into final year

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note: There's a lot of additional 2021 free agents which can be found here: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cincinnati-bengals/

I just listed the ones who I think deserve the most discussion.  Feel free to add or discuss any you'd like.

I hope some may find this thread interesting or helpful.  I think it shows how and where we can shed salary.  I'm hoping it serves as a decent discussion piece about how we might best go about in doing that.

My personal feelings are AJ, Ross, and Erickson need to be allowed to walk.  They will definitely have to focus on bringing in some talent at WR if they do so, though.  We're probably talking one in rounds 1-3 and one on day 3.

So far, Jackson seems to be back in top form, so we should try to extend him.

Carlos and Geno wouldn't be guys I'm looking to trade, but would for the right price.

Hart isn't getting cut.  Even if they bring in a new starting RT, they'll keep him as a backup so there will be less holes to fill.  Price is a zero sum cut just because you have to sign or draft another backup C and lose a potential comp pick.  Gio is a possibility, particularly if they draft a RB fairly high.  I don't think CJ is in any real danger of getting cut unless Schrek blows up because again, you're just creating more depth holes and only get so many draft picks.

[*ochocincos*]

An easier way to convey this might be:

2021 current cap = $32.286 mill (spotrac.com)
2020 remaining cap to date = $9.865 mill
----------------------------
2021 cap + max rollover = $42.151 mill


Players set to hit FA after this season:
- AJ Green
- William Jackson III
- Shawn Williams
- John Ross
- Mackensie Alexander
- Kevin Huber
- Alex Erickson
- Brandon Wilson
- Randy Bullock
- Josh Bynes
- Carl Lawson

You won't be able to re-sign all the above guys with the cap you have (nor would you want to).


Players with big savings if cut:
- Geno Atkins ($9.6 mill saved)
- Carlos Dunlap ($11.25 mill saved)
- Bobby Hart (5.9 mill saved)
- Giovani Bernard ($4.1 mill saved)
- CJ Uzomah ($5.3 mill saved)
---------------------------------------
Max saved if all cut = $36.15 mill

[*psychdoctor*]

I keep WJ3 and Alexander from this list. I like Uzi but I torn Achilles can be tough for recovery. I think use the rest to improve defense and WRs.

[ah5]

(09-21-2020, 09:18 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I keep WJ3 and Alexander from this list. I like Uzi but I torn Achilles can be tough for recovery. I think use the rest to improve defense and WRs.

Keep wilson as well.

Sent from my BV9600 using Tapatalk

[Joelist]

Something to consider is next year's cap may be revised downward and also you may not see the same cap growth in succeeding years. This stems from pandemic impacts and also that the TV ratings so far are down 20% year over year.

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-21-2020, 11:33 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I know we've had a lot of different talk about who we might move on from after the season. Who we could possible trade, who we could possibly cut, who we let walk etc.  I thought I'd simply list out a group a players that I think have the best possibility of not returning in 2021.  

I figured it would be nice to have a single thread where could discuss and debate who may stay and who may go as the season goes on.

Here is the list of guys I've come up with.  I'll list the player, followed by the 2021 cap savings, followed by possible type of departure.

(Note: I'm not saying all, or even most will be gone. Only that these are the most likely candidates.)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- AJ Green ------- 18.17 mil (Not resigned, money comes off books)

--- John Ross ------- 5.45 mil (Not resigned, money comes off books)

--- William Jackson - 9.95 mil (Not resigned, money comes off books)

--- Alex Erickson ---- 2.06 mil (Not resigned, money comes off books)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- Carlos Dunlap -- 11.25 mil (Traded or released) *** Going into final year

--- Geno Atkins -----  9.60 mil (Traded or released) *** Two years left

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- Bobby Hart ------- 5.90 mil (Released) *** Going into final year

--- CJ Uzomah -------  5.25 mil (Released) *** Going into final year

--- Gio Bernard ------- 4.10 mil (Released) *** Going into final year

--- Billy Price --------- 2.08 mil (Released) *** Going into final year

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note: There's a lot of additional 2021 free agents which can be found here: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cincinnati-bengals/

I just listed the ones who I think deserve the most discussion.  Feel free to add or discuss any you'd like.

I hope some may find this thread interesting or helpful.  I think it shows how and where we can shed salary.  I'm hoping it serves as a decent discussion piece about how we might best go about in doing that.

Of that list, I would only really argue that you should keep WJIII and Gio.  Possibly Atkins.  That means they have a hell of a lot to do, and I hope it is in FA again as the time to strike is now while Burrow is on his rookie deal.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-21-2020, 01:51 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Simple.  Remove the problem.

Bienemy 2021! :andy:

Can he stop the run? (I meant the run of the other team...ZT seems capable of stopping our own run). 

[Jhowdy54]

Fearing were seeing the end of the trio of Green, Geno, and Dunlap. AJ runs a route and limps to the sidelines in pain. Dunlap has went against 2 backup OTs the first 2 weeks and I dont remember seeing him once make a play. Geno is still up in the air on what he could still bring to the team so he might stick around. Green and Dunlap are 100% off the books next year. In the 1st round Im going with the top pass rusher in the draft. In FA I'm going all in on Oline. Burrow reminds me so much of Tom Brady in the way he plays. Brady his entire career has never had a true #1 receiver besides the one year with Randy Moss. I dont think we need to invest in WR at this point.

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-22-2020, 08:33 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Of that list, I would only really argue that you should keep WJIII and Gio. 

I gotta ask, why are you in favor of keeping Gio?

Fwiw, I really like Gio as a player, and even more as a person, but it's clear we're not getting near the return on the investment.  If we're not going to use him, why not free up 4.1 million dollars?

FYI:  Gio is currently the 22nd highest paid running back in the league.  Here's are his position ranks by year these last 3 years:

2020
Rushing Yards - 79th
Rushing TD's - NR (0)
Receiving Yards - 23rd
Receiving TD's - NR (0)

2019
Rushing Yards - 70th
Rushing TD's - NR (0)
Receiving Yards - 34th
Receing TD's - NR (0)

2018
Rushing Yards - 70th
Rushing TD - 42nd
Receiving Yards -31st
Receiving TD's - NR (0)

I can't bring up combined stats for these (or at least I don't know how to) but I'm guessing his total yards for the postion would rank well outside the top 50 for each season.  And I think his total TD's would follow suit, ranking incredibly low for this timespan.

The man hasn't even scored a TD since Sept. 30th 2018.  He's now gone all most 2 full seasons without finding the endzone.

I just don't know how the Bengals can justify paying him 5.7 mil next season when he's good for about 400 yards of total offense a year.  Why not take the 4+ mil in savings and invest elsewhere?

[coachmcneil71]

(09-21-2020, 01:51 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Simple.  Remove the problem.

Bienemy 2021! :andy:

Good thread btw! I would go ape shit (happy) if we were to hire EB. Zac obviously has great charisma and says all of the right things, but he doesn't seem to understand how to implement them.

[JSR18]

(09-21-2020, 02:15 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: This coming week should give more insight as to how good Cincinnati is. The Eagles look like a bad football team. If they come out and lose to Philly, then I am suspecting we are looking at a Top 5 pick (I think we are Top 10 regardless, the question is how bad are we?) We will have some interesting options there with the money that would be opened up by this.

-Improve the line via FA and draft someone like Ja'Marr Chase?
-Improve the defense via FA and draft Penei Sewell?
-Improve both of the lines via FA and trade the pick for more value (dependent on exact pick)?

Cincinnati will have the opportunity to really lay the foundation for the next five years, and it will be very important. I think that we will see some new coaches come in this off-season.

 From your mouth to God's ears...

[JSR18]

(09-22-2020, 12:27 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Good thread btw! I would go ape shit (happy) if we were to hire EB. Zac obviously has great charisma and says all of the right things, but he doesn't seem to understand how to implement them.

 The bolded. It needs to be added that ZT should worry about being a HC. Keep him as far away from the offense as possible. Every stop he's made as a play caller has been a complete shit show...

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-22-2020, 12:13 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I gotta ask, why are you in favor of keeping Gio?

Fwiw, I really like Gio as a player, and even more as a person, but it's clear we're not getting near the return on the investment.  If we're not going to use him, why not free up 4.1 million dollars?

FYI:  Gio is currently the 22nd highest paid running back in the league.  Here's are his position ranks by year these last 3 years:

2020
Rushing Yards - 79th
Rushing TD's - NR (0)
Receiving Yards - 23rd
Receiving TD's - NR (0)

2019
Rushing Yards - 70th
Rushing TD's - NR (0)
Receiving Yards - 34th
Receing TD's - NR (0)

2018
Rushing Yards - 70th
Rushing TD - 42nd
Receiving Yards -31st
Receiving TD's - NR (0)

I can't bring up combined stats for these (or at least I don't know how to) but I'm guessing his total yards for the postion would rank well outside the top 50 for each season.  And I think his total TD's would follow suit, ranking incredibly low for this timespan.

The man hasn't even scored a TD since Sept. 30th 2018.  He's now gone all most 2 full seasons without finding the endzone.

I just don't know how the Bengals can justify paying him 5.7 mil next season when he's good for about 400 yards of total offense a year.  Why not take the 4+ mil in savings and invest elsewhere?

I don't blame Gio for being poorly utilized, like much of the team.  I also think he has the attitude I want on my team....culture fit.  Right now, as poor as Mixon is rushing the ball, I wonder if Gio shouldn't be getting more opportunities.  

[grampahol]

(09-21-2020, 02:17 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I don't disagree with you.  It would be definitely out of character for this front office to cut bait so soon.

That said, if they or anyone else tries to roll out the pandemic or injury excuse, I hope it falls on mostly deaf ears.

Every team is dealing with the pandemic.  In fact, as far as opt outs are concerned, we couldn't be doing any better.  Look at a team like the Patriots. 

And as far as injuries are concerned, all in all, I think we're in pretty good shape.  There's definitely a lot of teams that have it much worse in that department.

Who says the Bengals even need an excuse?  All they have to say is they suck and always have and nobody will have a comeback to argue with.. Heck, Marv got old being the HC for them. They just need to say Taylor is still young. Just wait till he's old..