ESPN Trenches Win Rate Stats

[lone bengal]

(09-22-2020, 08:39 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Frank Ragnow 5th in Pass Blocking Win% among Cs.
Looked at PFF and he is rated at 89.1 in 2020, and has gotten better every year.

Could have had him instead of Billy Price and 1.5 years of Cordy Glenn not wanting to play football. A lot of people wanted Ragnow, too, so nobody can claim hindsight. It hurts.

I can’t lie I liked the move at the time but now Price looks like another wasted 1st rounder. Far as lineman go James Daniels was picked 39th overall and Braden Smith 37th overall both are better than Price and of course you have Darius Leonard 36th overall. Too make you feel better big picture we came one win away from not getting Burrow. If we had picked better 1st rounders over the last few years they could have made plays to win us a game and we lose out on Burrow. Rather have the QB and figure out the rest. But it brings into question some of Tobins draft blunders.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

ummmm.... Dunlap absolutely has massive consistency issues. He got whooped by a rookie in Cleveland.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-23-2020, 01:39 AM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: ummmm.... Dunlap absolutely has massive consistency issues. He got whooped by a rookie in Cleveland.

It's weird but with only a couple exceptions, Carlos typically grades average to (mostly) poor against Cleveland in his career. 

So i wouldn't worry about him based on the last game. He's had worse against them.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(09-23-2020, 01:48 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: It's weird but with only a couple exceptions, Carlos typically grades average to (mostly) poor against Cleveland in his career. 

So i wouldn't worry about him based on the last game. He's had worse against them.

That isn't exactly encouraging. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-23-2020, 01:39 AM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: ummmm.... Dunlap absolutely has massive consistency issues. He got whooped by a rookie in Cleveland.

I was talking over the course of his entire career here. You have to be pretty consistent to hold the franchise sacks record.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-23-2020, 01:53 AM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: That isn't exactly encouraging. 

Why not? They only play Cleveland twice every year.

[PDub80]

(09-22-2020, 03:05 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Wish we had GB’s oline or coach. Their guys are all over the top 10 lists.

Remember when the board thought the Bengals just needed Frank Pollack, the Cowboys line coach? How did that work out?

The Bengals need really good linemen, period. These coaches are not wizards who turn water into wine. The coaches and scouts evaluating O linemen have missed.... horrifically. They clearly need to change their criteria. 

[PDub80]

(09-23-2020, 02:01 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I was talking over the course of his entire career here. You have to be pretty consistent to hold the franchise sacks record.

Father Time is undefeated. Dunlap looks weak and slow thus far.

[BengalFanInNJ]

(09-23-2020, 07:04 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Remember when the board thought the Bengals just needed Frank Pollack, the Cowboys line coach? How did that work out?

The Bengals need really good linemen, period. These coaches are not wizards who turn water into wine. The coaches and scouts evaluating O linemen have missed.... horrifically. They clearly need to change their criteria. 

Pollack probably has been the best O-line coach we had the past 6-7 years. 

When the Bengals played the Jets last year, Mixon made a point to go up to Pollack (who is the Jets O-Line coach) after the game and thank him for helping the line.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-22-2020, 02:52 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: ESPN out with some new metrics for pass rush/block and rush stop/block win rates.

Surprisingly the Bengals aren’t the worst in the league at blocking, really bad, but not the worst.

They are next to last in the league in pass rush.

The only player that made any of the top 10 lists was Hubbard and run stop win rate.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings

Eagles 5th in Pass Block Win Rate even though Wentz was sacked 8 times in game 1 (wasn't sacked at all in game 2, btw). Guess another week of our defense not getting any sacks or pressures on the QB?

[PDub80]

(09-23-2020, 09:57 AM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Pollack probably has been the best O-line coach we had the past 6-7 years. 

When the Bengals played the Jets last year, Mixon made a point to go up to Pollack (who is the Jets O-Line coach) after the game and thank him for helping the line.

The line still stunk.

Class act by Mixon, though!

[GreenCornBengal]

(09-23-2020, 07:04 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Remember when the board thought the Bengals just needed Frank Pollack, the Cowboys line coach? How did that work out?

The Bengals need really good linemen, period. These coaches are not wizards who turn water into wine. The coaches and scouts evaluating O linemen have missed.... horrifically. They clearly need to change their criteria. 

I bet they’re judging them on opening jars instead of their ketchup use. Damn our new coaches, damn them!

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(09-22-2020, 10:17 PM)lone bengal Wrote: I can’t lie I liked the move at the time but now Price looks like another wasted 1st rounder. Far as lineman go James Daniels was picked 39th overall and Braden Smith 37th overall both are better than Price and of course you have Darius Leonard 36th overall.  Too make you feel better big  picture we came one win away from not getting Burrow. If we had picked better 1st rounders over the last few years  they could have made plays to win us a game and we lose out on Burrow. Rather have the QB and figure out the rest. But it brings into question some of Tobins draft blunders.

I hated the Price pick at the time. I'm no scout, didn't have access to film and don't claim to be an expert but I tried to read up on the subject by consuming a lot of scouting reports and none of them were describing a first rounder. They were all describing someone with physical limitations, lacking elite attributes, playing at a non-premium position who lacked pro-bowl potential. Whilst a high floor, low ceiling prospect at a non-premium position has some value, it's certainly not first round value. Now it turns out all those scouting reports were optimistic and this supposedly safe prospect with a high floor wasn't even that. 

The Center I wanted at the time was James Daniels and I'd have been happy with him or Ragnow in the first. Both were considered to have pro bowl ceilings, which if you're picking a non-premium position in the first seems to me to be a must. But the O-lineman - or indeed any position - I was crossing my fingers would fall to us was Isaiah Wynn and I can't help but think that this O-line would be looking much better now if he had been the pick.

FWIW the O-lineman I really wanted this year was Josh Jones. I'd have been delighted with him in the second round but for him to be there in the third and for us to pass on him hurt.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-22-2020, 08:39 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Frank Ragnow 5th in Pass Blocking Win% among Cs.
Looked at PFF and he is rated at 89.1 in 2020, and has gotten better every year.

Could have had him instead of Billy Price and 1.5 years of Cordy Glenn not wanting to play football. A lot of people wanted Ragnow, too, so nobody can claim hindsight. It hurts.

Could have also possibly had Ragnow even with Glenn if the Bengals had been willing to trade up a spot or two.
According to trade value chart, it would only cost a late 3rd or early 4th to move up from 21 to 19.
Mid-to-late 4th to go from 21 to 20.

Also, I think it's safe to say those of us who thought Ragnow would be the best C from that class were right?