Bench AJ start Ross

[Sled21]

Enough with the Ross should be starting over Erickson. Erickson plays WR and Special teams. He returns punts and is a gunner on the other side. Ross has one job, and he can't do it. It doesn't matter how fast he is if he can't catch. This is not a track meet.

[CJD]

If we're benching AJ, his snaps should go to Tate and Higgins, not Ross.

Ross is a no effort loser who has been benched for lack of effort by both of his head coaches. He doesn't try to catch anything that isn't in his breadbasket and doesn't do anymore than is absolutely necessary to not get released outright.

[2MinutesHate]

(10-07-2020, 09:06 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The route on that third down play where Burrow supposedly overthrew him....he was running that route at 15 MPH.  That's pathetic.  

If we see it, so will other coaches.  Let's hope ours not only see it, but they do something about it.  

When you take away the 33 throws to AJ, Burrow's passer rating actually IMPROVES from 87.9 to 98.2. 
I think it's pretty apparent he's not the same player anymore.  It just sucks that we burned $18 million on him and another $5.5 million on Ross.  

I suppose AJ could turn it around but he's had a long time to heal and I don't think his body will return to what it was.

Ross, on the other hand, is likely having the same playbook/execution struggles that he had when Marvin was here.  Every week he sits, the less value he has on the trade market.  I think we will simply cut him at the end of the year with no return.  

Somebody call Mark Davis quick!  Tell him we have 2 potential superstar WR's! 

[*ochocincos*]

Bengals should have not taken the risk with AJ at the tag price. But likely no one will trade for AJ, at least until right before the trade deadline to see if he actually does anything worth trading for.

If the Bengals aren't going to activate Ross, they should try to trade him for even a late round pick. Get SOMETHING for him.
If they can do that, promote Scotty Washington to take his spot as the inactive WR.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-04-2020, 06:05 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Nah, offense has looked far better without Ross regardless. If anything, give Mike Thomas more snaps.

I agree that Mike Thomas is playing better than Ross and Green but I think Green will click on very soon.  He is still getting in football shape from lack of live action over the past two years.  Ross is done.  But I stated in a draft thread a while back that Thomas is under the radar for most fans and is likely the 4 best WR on team right now.  

[impactplaya]

What we need to keep in mind is that 4 games this offense has zero plays over 50 yards. In order to beat these teams
Upcoming on the schedule this offense generate some chunk plays from its WRs.
Yeah Burrow has 3- 300 passing games but yet no throws that have equated to
Chunk plays.
If you dont start hitting the 45 to 70 yard throws then defenses will suffocate you
Eventually. And when you play good open field tackling teams you can forget about YAC.
Everything is compressed.
Ross is only WR that has shown the ability to come up with 30 yard plus catches in recent memory.
If the offense cant force secondaries and lbers to adjust their depth then
This offense will struggle vs better teams

[Wire22Wire]

(10-07-2020, 12:02 PM)impactplaya Wrote: What we need to keep in mind is that 4 games this offense has zero plays over 50 yards. In order to beat these teams
Upcoming on the schedule this offense generate some chunk plays from its WRs.
Yeah Burrow has 3- 300 passing games but yet no throws that have equated to
Chunk plays.
If you dont start hitting the 45 to 70 yard throws then defenses will suffocate you
Eventually. And when you play good open field tackling teams you can forget about YAC.
Everything is compressed.
Ross is only WR that has shown the ability to come up with 30 yard plus catches in recent memory.
If the offense cant force secondaries and lbers to adjust their depth then
This offense will struggle vs better teams

Ross has 1 catch over 30 yards (34 to be exact) since 9.16.19 -  390 Days, one 34 yard catch is his long.  Lol

[*ochocincos*]

(10-07-2020, 09:28 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Enough with the Ross should be starting over Erickson. Erickson plays WR and Special teams. He returns punts and is a gunner on the other side. Ross has one job, and he can't do it. It doesn't matter how fast he is if he can't catch. This is not a track meet.

Alex Erickson has played a total of 21 ST snaps, which is only 17% and 26th most on the team.
His ST snaps dropped by 50% ever since he stopped doing KR.
Went from 38% in 2017 - 2018 to now just 17% in 2019 and so far in 2020.

Let's not act like he's a heavy ST guy.

[KillerGoose]

(10-07-2020, 12:02 PM)impactplaya Wrote: What we need to keep in mind is that 4 games this offense has zero plays over 50 yards. In order to beat these teams
Upcoming on the schedule this offense generate some chunk plays from its WRs.
Yeah Burrow has 3- 300 passing games but yet no throws that have equated to
Chunk plays.
If you dont start hitting the 45 to 70 yard throws then defenses will suffocate you
Eventually. And when you play good open field tackling teams you can forget about YAC.
Everything is compressed.
Ross is only WR that has shown the ability to come up with 30 yard plus catches in recent memory.
If the offense cant force secondaries and lbers to adjust their depth then
This offense will struggle vs better teams

What you’re saying simply isn’t true. The Saints are a perfect example of this. Drew Brees has only completed 1 pass that traveled over 35 yards in the air since 2017. Working the intermediate game, working the seams is much more important than hitting 45+ yard throws.

Most teams don’t have their quarterbacks throw a ton of deep balls. It is typically short and intermediate passes.

[BengalChris]

(10-07-2020, 09:01 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Ross should be starting over Erickson at the very least.  He is still a weapon and next get stats showed he hit over 21 MPH on his routes.  He could be the big play we have been missing.  You can't sit the guy the entire season because he wasn't looking on the crossing route.  

He has had about 3 targets and has about the same production as Green with something like 25 targets.  

AJ has 14 catches on 33 targets (42.4%) for 119 yards, 8.5 yards per catch, 3.6 yards per target.
Ross has 2 catches on 7 targets (28.6%) for 17 yards, 8.5 yards per catch, 2.4 yards per target.

AJ is certainly under performing compared to his usual self, by a long ways, and his numbers this year are not starter quality. But he does have a long history of performing well.
Ross, on the other hand, has no history of performing. He's had one great game, some so-so games and a ton of awful games.

Tyler Boyd has 28 catches on 34 targets (82.4%) for 320 yards and 1 TD, 11.4 yards per catch, 9.4 yards per target.
Tee Higgins has 12 catches on 22 targets (54.5%) for 152 yards and 2 TD, 12.7 yards per catch, 6.9 yards per target.
Mike Thomas has 9 catches on 10 targets (90.0%) for 62 yards and 1 TD, 6.9 yards per catch, 6.2 yards per target.
Auden Tate has 3 catches on 5 targets (60.0%) for 44 yards, 14.7 yards per catch, 8.8 yards per target.

 

[Sled21]

(10-07-2020, 02:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Alex Erickson has played a total of 21 ST snaps, which is only 17% and 26th most on the team.
His ST snaps dropped by 50% ever since he stopped doing KR.
Went from 38% in 2017 - 2018 to now just 17% in 2019 and so far in 2020.

Let's not act like he's a heavy ST guy.

That's 21 more ST snaps than Ross played. And Erickson catches the ball. He may not get a lot of YAC, but he is a solid possession receiver. Ross is Clifford Franklin prior to dumping his hands in stickum....

[*ochocincos*]

(10-07-2020, 05:39 PM)Sled21 Wrote: That's 21 more ST snaps than Ross played. And Erickson catches the ball. He may not get a lot of YAC, but he is a solid possession receiver. Ross is Clifford Franklin prior to dumping his hands in stickum....

Someone who catches 5 balls for a total of 40 yards is just as productive as someone who catches 1 ball for 40 yards and drops the rest.

You're right that Erickson plays more ST than Ross, but I did not mention Ross at all. I simply was pointing out that Erickson is not some heavy ST guy like some think he is. He's not playing on a majority of ST snaps.

[Sled21]

(10-07-2020, 05:41 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Someone who catches 5 balls for a total of 40 yards is just as productive as someone who catches 1 ball for 40 yards and drops the rest.

You're right that Erickson plays more ST than Ross, but I did not mention Ross at all. I simply was pointing out that Erickson is not some heavy ST guy like some think he is. He's not playing on a majority of ST snaps.

5 balls for 40 yds could be 3 or 4 first downs or more.... I was referencing those who say Erickson should be benched for Ross to be activated.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-07-2020, 05:53 PM)Sled21 Wrote: 5 balls for 40 yds could be 3 or 4 first downs or more.... I was referencing those who say Erickson should be benched for Ross to be activated.

You're right, 5 balls for 40 yards could be 3 or 4 first downs, but 1 catch for 40 yards removes the need to worry about getting that many first downs. You've essentially already gotten 4 of them in 1 catch.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-07-2020, 10:47 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote:
When you take away the 33 throws to AJ, Burrow's passer rating actually IMPROVES from 87.9 to 98.2. 
I think it's pretty apparent he's not the same player anymore.  It just sucks that we burned $18 million on him and another $5.5 million on Ross.  

I suppose AJ could turn it around but he's had a long time to heal and I don't think his body will return to what it was.

Ross, on the other hand, is likely having the same playbook/execution struggles that he had when Marvin was here.  Every week he sits, the less value he has on the trade market.  I think we will simply cut him at the end of the year with no return.  

Somebody call Mark Davis quick!  Tell him we have 2 potential superstar WR's! 

And frankly, this information is why they are 1-2-1 instead of perhaps 3-1.  

They need to change this up rather quickly if they are to have a shot against Baltimore.  I sincerely hope they do and we aren't disappointed with another "we just need to play better" post game analysis.

Regarding Ross, I get what you are saying, but you could design 20 plays (I am sure they have them already) where even if he doesn't get the ball he can make a positive impact.  That impact is above and beyond what the rest of the WR corps can offer.  If they can't teach him the proper routes, etc, then that is largely on them IMHO.  Ross may not have the football acumen of a Green but he is a ridiculous talent.  We have seen that in flashes when he is healthy.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-07-2020, 04:31 PM)BengalChris Wrote: AJ has 14 catches on 33 targets (42.4%) for 119 yards, 8.5 yards per catch, 3.6 yards per target.
Ross has 2 catches on 7 targets (28.6%) for 17 yards, 8.5 yards per catch, 2.4 yards per target.

AJ is certainly under performing compared to his usual self, by a long ways, and his numbers this year are not starter quality. But he does have a long history of performing well.
Ross, on the other hand, has no history of performing. He's had one great game, some so-so games and a ton of awful games.

Tyler Boyd has 28 catches on 34 targets (82.4%) for 320 yards and 1 TD, 11.4 yards per catch, 9.4 yards per target.
Tee Higgins has 12 catches on 22 targets (54.5%) for 152 yards and 2 TD, 12.7 yards per catch, 6.9 yards per target.
Mike Thomas has 9 catches on 10 targets (90.0%) for 62 yards and 1 TD, 6.9 yards per catch, 6.2 yards per target.
Auden Tate has 3 catches on 5 targets (60.0%) for 44 yards, 14.7 yards per catch, 8.8 yards per target.

 

One thing your analysis ignores is how far down the field were these targets.  It is naturally harder to hit downfield passes.  But just because you miss doesn't mean you stop trying.  And on how many of those targets to Green was he a threat to break a deep score or run away from a defender?  Judging by the 15 MPH speed on that first third down incompletion, the answer is zero.  

We all love Green for what he has done and hate Ross for what he never became.  I get it.  But if you want to win games right now, Ross does something Green doesn't.  He should be playing instead of Erickson.  Have AJ take some of Boyd's snaps in the slot and see if that gets him going.  Only when Boyd needs a blow, though.  Ross should be outside taking safeties deep.  

[HarleyDog]

We are undefeated with Ross as a healthy scratch. I'm superstitious. Let's not play him till we lose.

[BengalChris]

(10-07-2020, 06:48 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: One thing your analysis ignores is how far down the field were these targets.  It is naturally harder to hit downfield passes.  But just because you miss doesn't mean you stop trying.  And on how many of those targets to Green was he a threat to break a deep score or run away from a defender?  Judging by the 15 MPH speed on that first third down incompletion, the answer is zero.  

We all love Green for what he has done and hate Ross for what he never became.  I get it.  But if you want to win games right now, Ross does something Green doesn't.  He should be playing instead of Erickson.  Have AJ take some of Boyd's snaps in the slot and see if that gets him going.  Only when Boyd needs a blow, though.  Ross should be outside taking safeties deep.  

I 100% agree with the bolded.


I believe AJ targets have, on average, been deeper.

for Ross in 2020 https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/john-ross/
Average target distance: 12 yards
Deep targets: 1

for AJ Green https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/aj-green/
Average target distance: 14.6
Deep targets: 10

 

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-07-2020, 06:51 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: We are undefeated with Ross as a healthy scratch. I'm superstitious. Let's not play him till we lose.

I've been way on board with Ross being on the bench for the last 2 weeks. 

Here comes the butt...


I can't see the Bengals D stopping the Ravens from running so the only way i can see a Bengals win is Burrow going off and tossing 4 or 5 touchdowns. Even with all his drops and boneheaded plays...i would have Ross active this week and sit Erickson. Erickson doesn't bring so much to the table that you can't put someone else back there and get the same to better results. If you get 'good Ross', then you get an explosive player that can score from anywhere on the field. 

The Bengals need all the "lethal" weapons they can get this week and Burrow needs to channel his inner 2019 LSU Tigers Burrow, so they have a chance to win in a shootout. 

[HarleyDog]

(10-07-2020, 10:26 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I've been way on board with Ross being on the bench for the last 2 weeks. 

Here comes the butt...


I can't see the Bengals D stopping the Ravens from running so the only way i can see a Bengals win is Burrow going off and tossing 4 or 5 touchdowns. Even with all his drops and boneheaded plays...i would have Ross active this week and sit Erickson. Erickson doesn't bring so much to the table that you can't put someone else back there and get the same to better results. If you get 'good Ross', then you get an explosive player that can score from anywhere on the field. 

The Bengals need all the "lethal" weapons they can get this week and Burrow needs to channel his inner 2019 LSU Tigers Burrow, so they have a chance to win in a shootout. 

4th qtr, Bengals down by 5 on the 35yd line. Hut hut, Burrow drops back, scans the field. Ross is a step ahead of the receiver heading to endzone and Joe throws the ball. Do you have confidence he comes down with it? Games 1 & 2 says no.