PFF OL grades

[*Synric*]

(10-12-2020, 11:10 AM)Au165 Wrote: Some of them were on Burrow, many were not. Could part of it be him not getting them into the right protection? I'm sure a couple of the miscommunications were. The holding on to the ball thing is one of those things you just deal with. The kid wants to make plays, and when he buys time like he did a few weeks ago and Taylor yells to throw it away we blast Taylor but when he holds it yesterday and gives up sack fumbles we act like he "Has to get rid of it". The reality is he just has to learn from these on when he can and can't do it. The other issue people need to realize though, it's easy to say "throw it away" but for some reason, many here forget you CAN'T if you are in the pocket and a couple of times yesterday he was stuck climbing the pocket because of quick collapses which limit his ability to actually get rid of it.

The amount of times we had to go to 7 man protections yesterday is really concerning. When you go to a 7 man protection scheme you now have 3 guys out in the pattern which allows for blanket double teams across the board. The "Quick game" sounds great in theory but Baltimore never respected a deep threat so they can just sit and drive on anything underneath meaning it wouldn't really have ended any better. This team's success starts and ends upfront, that is all there is to it. If you block well Burrow and Mixon will give you a chance to win, but if not there is really no shot.

Seen more than a few miscues and thats hard to tell if it was on the player or Burrow/Hopkins. 

On the second drive the Ravens were showing 7 rushers and mostly in the A&B gaps I was waiting for a screen play but the Bengals didnt run a screen until the second half and only one that I can remember. 

[Essex Johnson]

(10-12-2020, 10:58 AM)Synric Wrote: I remember both Hart and Williams making at least one mental error.

Well if you believe in PFF then you need to trust they are consistent .

[Au165]

(10-12-2020, 11:28 AM)Synric Wrote: Seen more than a few miscues and thats hard to tell if it was on the player or Burrow/Hopkins. 

On the second drive the Ravens were showing 7 rushers and mostly in the A&B gaps I was waiting for a screen play but the Bengals didnt run a screen until the second half and only one that I can remember. 

I actually think the very first 5 wide play where they motioned Gio but instead Burrow sprinted out and threw it away was a blown-up screen. They showed it later to Mixon and it was a screen.

[Au165]

(10-12-2020, 11:28 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well if you believe in PFF then you need to trust they are consistent .

It's tough sometimes without seeing the play by play grades. I especially get concerned about assigning blame on things because two different people can see them differently. I like to look at it on the year as a whole to get a big picture view of a guy but tend to shy away from the game stuff just because things get skewed with smaller sample sizes.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-12-2020, 11:23 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: DL needs to be addressed too with Dunlap and Geno aging out, but it’s not as immediate a need as OL. We have to protect the franchise QB first and foremost.

Being able to run the ball more than once or twice a season would also be nice.

Defensive line needs addressed as well as those players rarely contribute as rookies.  If they went OT and G in the first two rounds (assuming the players were there, blah, blah, blah...) then I could see DE and DT addressed with the next few picks.  If it is true that the Raiders are interested in Dunlap (or anyone for that matter is interested), I would jump at a future draft pick for him right now.  

[WeezyBengal]

(10-12-2020, 11:05 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I would love to see at least the first few rounds (and FA) devoted to OL.

Or you could just sign a couple of really good ones in FA... 

[Joelist]

Part was Burrow having a bad game but part was also scheme. Remember that genius design which had us blocking the Rats best pass rushing DE with a TE?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-12-2020, 12:00 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Or you could just sign a couple of really good ones in FA... 

Sounds nice, but you have to get them to agree to come here. Good OL starters are about as highly coveted as anything other than a QB.

[kalibengal]

(10-12-2020, 10:14 AM)pally Wrote: Pass Blocking

Hopkins - 79.6
Hart - 79.0
Williams - 76.2
Redmond - 46.5
Jordan - 42.3

Run Blocking

Hopkins - 55.5
Hart - 55.5
Williams - 51.6
Redmond - 71.8
Jordan - 59.3

I didn't know that PFF is owned by Cris Collinsworth? Has my head been stuck underground? I dont live in Cincy maybe thats why? 

[*bfine32*]

As I said yesterday; of the 7 sacks the oline personnel were responsible for about 2. Bobby and Jonah each got beat to the inside toward the end of the game on back to back plays

[*Synric*]

(10-12-2020, 12:26 PM)Joelist Wrote: Part was Burrow having a bad game but part was also scheme. Remember that genius design which had us blocking the Rats best pass rushing DE with a TE?

The Ravens brought 6 players in and the Bengals were in an empty set with an attached TE. In that situation you set the protection inside out which will leave your TE on an island vs a defensive end. 

It's a common situation and a tough assignment for any TE, but Sample has to be able to at least make an initial block giving the QB enough time to make a quick pass because there will most likely be one open.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-12-2020, 12:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said yesterday; of the 7 sacks the oline personnel were responsible for about 2. Bobby and Jonah each got beat to the inside toward the end of the game on back to back plays

And how many pressures or tackles of Mixon in the backfield. The guards were both awful.

[TecmoBengals]

(10-12-2020, 10:14 AM)pally Wrote: Pass Blocking

Hopkins - 79.6
Hart - 79.0
Williams - 76.2
Redmond - 46.5
Jordan - 42.3

Run Blocking

Hopkins - 55.5
Hart - 55.5
Williams - 51.6
Redmond - 71.8
Jordan - 59.3

How do these numbers compare to the rest of the league? When I watch the games, my eye test says "we're the worst." Is this supported by these numbers?

[*Synric*]

(10-12-2020, 11:45 AM)Au165 Wrote: I actually think the very first 5 wide play where they motioned Gio but instead Burrow sprinted out and threw it away was a blown-up screen. They showed it later to Mixon and it was a screen.

I am not looking forward to watching the all22 this week...I'd say the Offense is looking forward to it even less. Lol

[*bfine32*]

(10-12-2020, 12:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And how many pressures or tackles of Mixon in the backfield. The guards were both awful.

Oh I agree, but I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water. 

Jonah is doing great for a 1st year LT
Bobby has turned into serviceable
Hopkins is top half of the league at C

I'd like to get the kid that played RG at Bama when Jonah was LT (Leatherwood)


Damn you Clint Boling

[Hoofhearted]

(10-12-2020, 10:19 AM)Au165 Wrote: They are being pretty generous here to Jonah because I can remember two or three major issues in my head that he messed up. I will have to watch it back again, but I have a hard time seeing him as a near 80 graded pass blocker that game.

They gave 3 of the sacks to JB, one to Mixon, one to Hart and not sure why they didn't assign the other two sacks. Maybe because he was at the LOS? This is why PFF is hard to understand/follow for me. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-12-2020, 01:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh I agree, but I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water. 

Jonah is doing great for a 1st year LT
Bobby has turned into serviceable
Hopkins is top half of the league at C

I'd like to get the kid that played RG at Bama when Jonah was LT (Leatherwood)


Damn you Clint Boling

I’d also like Leatherwood if we pick in that range. But I think he’s projected as a mid first rounder? I think we’ll be picking a lot earlier than that.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-12-2020, 11:01 AM)Au165 Wrote: I could have sworn Hart got walked back a few times but I probably need to watch it back. For me, the one that stands out for Jonah was the five-man protection on six rushers and him turning out versus turning in and making Joe take the wide rusher versus the unblocked one inside him and Jordan.

I distinctly remember this play.
Williams turned in but Jordan was blocking that guy. The guy between Jordan and Hopkins went unblocked IIRC.
I saw Williams try to turn and block the outside guy once he saw Jordan blocking the guy he thought he was supposed to block.

Could this have been a mistake on Jordan's part? Was Jordan supposed to block the guy between him and Hopkins and Williams block the guy that Jordan ended up blocking?

I could see how that could have been the case. If all the inside guys got blocked properly, it would have forced the outside rusher to arc wide to get into Burrow, of which Burrow would have had a pocket to climb to avoid the rusher.

[Au165]

(10-12-2020, 01:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I distinctly remember this play.
Williams turned in but Jordan was blocking that guy. The guy between Jordan and Hopkins went unblocked IIRC.
I saw Williams try to turn and block the outside guy once he saw Jordan blocking the guy he thought he was supposed to block.

Could this have been a mistake on Jordan's part? Was Jordan supposed to block the guy between him and Hopkins and Williams block the guy that Jordan ended up blocking?

I could see how that could have been the case. If all the inside guys got blocked properly, it would have forced the outside rusher to arc wide to get into Burrow, of which Burrow would have had a pocket to climb to avoid the rusher.

I’d have to watch again, but general thinking on 5 on 6 schemes is you turn the widest guy loose to allow the QB furthest distance a defender has to run to hit him.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-12-2020, 01:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh I agree, but I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water. 

Jonah is doing great for a 1st year LT
Bobby has turned into serviceable
Hopkins is top half of the league at C

I'd like to get the kid that played RG at Bama when Jonah was LT (Leatherwood)


Damn you Clint Boling

Leatherwood has moved into LT now, which is good because it shows he has versatility.
However, as a pure G, I think Davis might be better than Leatherwood. But Leatherwood has ability to swing outside, which Davis does not.

I would be ok with an OL of Williams - XSF - Hopkins - Leatherwood/Davis - Hart for a year.
If Leatherwood is the pick, he could swing out to RT once Hart's contract is up next year.