'Bengals need to part ways with Carlos Dunlap, Geno Atkins now'

[Hoofhearted]

(10-20-2020, 05:17 PM)J24 Wrote: Atkins has only played 36 snaps this season so I have zero idea how anyone can honestly give an opinion of his play so far 

Secondly Dunlap played well the previous 3 games so once again the demise of him has been extremely exaggerated just like last season.

Then why pay him 14 million to play 36 snaps? It's a silly use of resources.

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-20-2020, 05:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Geno's fellow NFL players selected him  to the Pro Bowl and we had NO ONE on the roster to replace him.

I don't know how many times I've had this discussion, but I'll guess I'll do it one more time.

People often say something like (in response to trading someone like Geno Atkins):  "You think you're going to replace Geno Atkins with a 4th round pick?"

What they're missing is, you're not only getting the draft pick, you're getting the cap space saved as well.  It's Geno Atkins vs. a 4th round pick and around 7 million to spend elswhere in 2020.

You say we had no one to replace him with.  Do you not think we could have replaced his current production with someone under 7 million dollars on the free agency market?

Hell, look at someone like Mike Daniels.  I'm not sure he's any worse a caliber of player than Geno Atkins at this point.  We got him for, what, 2.7 million?

You take the pick, and take the savings, and move on.  Otherwise you're stucking paying 14 million dollars to guy that's probably not even worth 1/3 of that.

And before anyone says hindsight is 20/20, I, along with many others, were squeeling (just for you, Fred) to start  shopping these two guys last year.

[fredtoast]

(10-20-2020, 05:11 PM)Sled21 Wrote: How many sacks does he have this year?

Dunlap has 18 tkls, 1 sack, 2 PDs, 2 TFL, and 3 QB hits.

Those numbers are better than the combined production of Andrew Brown, Amani Beldsoe, and Khalid Kareem.  So who is playing well enough to push Dunlap to the bench?

You compared his situation to Whitworth's but what do you think Whit would have done if they had benched him to play Ogbuehi?

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-20-2020, 05:23 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I don't know how many times I've had this discussion, but I'll guess I'll do it one more time.

People often say something like (in response to trading someone like Geno Atkins):  "You think you're going to replace Geno Atkins with a 4th round pick?"

What they're missing is, you're not only getting the draft pick, you're getting the cap space saved as well.  It's Geno Atkins vs. a 4th round pick and around 7 million to spend elswhere in 2020.

You say we had no one to replace him with.  Do you not think we could have replaced his current production with someone under 7 million dollars on the free agency market?

Hell, look at someone like Mike Daniels.  I'm not sure he's any worse a caliber of player than Geno Atkins at this point.  We got him for, what, 2.7 million?

You take the pick, and take the savings, and move on.  Otherwise you're stucking paying 14 million dollars to guy that's probably not even worth 1/3 of that.

And before anyone says hindsight is 20/20, I, along with many others, were squeeling (just for you, Fred) to start  shopping these two guys last year.

They don't understand we're not replacing 2012 Geno and Dunlap and Green. We're not replacing Pro Bowlers, we're not replacing the game changing level of play.

"You gonna replace a 7 time pro bowler" ? Umm news flash - we can't keep them around until they're 40 because they "used to" be a pro bowler.

[Sled21]

(10-20-2020, 05:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dunlap has 18 tkls, 1 sack, 2 PDs, 2 TFL, and 3 QB hits.

Those numbers are better than the combined production of Andrew Brown, Amani Beldsoe, and Khalid Kareem.  So who is playing well enough to push Dunlap to the bench?

You compared his situation to Whitworth's but what do you think Whit would have done if they had benched him to play Ogbuehi?

The point is, Dunlap is not playing up to his potential, especially in the run game. Reducing his snaps (he's not benched) is the coaches only means of trying to motivate him to get his production up.

What would Whit have done, he probably would have taken the snaps given to him and reeked havoc on the field so they couldn't demote him again.

[J24]

(10-20-2020, 05:19 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Then why pay him 14 million to play 36 snaps? It's a silly use of resources.

Or why not play him? It's silly to a HOF player and not use him.

[fredtoast]

(10-20-2020, 05:23 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You say we had no one to replace him with.  Do you not think we could have replaced his current production with someone under 7 million dollars on the free agency market?

Hell, look at someone like Mike Daniels.  I'm not sure he's any worse a caliber of player than Geno Atkins at this point.  We got him for, what, 2.7 million?

Here you go using hindsight again.

Can you imagine if the front office had announced that we were cutting Atkins and replacing his 47 tkls, 4.5 saks, 10 QB hits and Pro Bowl appearance with Mike Daniels 10 tkls, 1 sack, and 2 QB hits?

It is real easy to make great decisions when you know how everything is going to play out..

[fredtoast]

(10-20-2020, 05:33 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: They don't understand we're not replacing 2012 Geno and Dunlap and Green. We're not replacing Pro Bowlers, we're not replacing the game changing level of play.

"You gonna replace a 7 time pro bowler" ? Umm news flash - we can't keep them around until they're 40 because they "used to" be a pro bowler.

But no one knew that during the offseason.  Geno was coming off a Pro Bowl season.  Not up to his previous level of play, but not easy to replace at all.

The second half of last year after Dunlap got healthy he played as well as any DE in the league.

Go back and look at the preseason predictions.  Almost everyone here said our D-line would be one of our strengths and a lot of that was because of Dunlap and Atkins.

[Sled21]

(10-20-2020, 05:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But no one knew that during the offseason.  Geno was coming off a Pro Bowl season.  Not up to his previous level of play, but not easy to replace at all.

The second half of last year after Dunlap got healthy he played as well as any DE in the league.

Go back and look at the preseason predictions.  Almost everyone here said our D-line would be one of our strengths and a lot of that was because of Dunlap and Atkins.

I, for one, was really looking forward to watching Dunlap, Reader, Atkins and Hubbard line up....

[Bengalholic]

(10-20-2020, 05:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dunlap has 18 tkls, 1 sack, 2 PDs, 2 TFL, and 3 QB hits.

Those numbers are better than the combined production of Andrew Brown, Amani Beldsoe, and Khalid Kareem.  So who is playing well enough to push Dunlap to the bench?

You compared his situation to Whitworth's but what do you think Whit would have done if they had benched him to play Ogbuehi?

Half of those numbers came in one game. Outside that game, Carlos has been just another guy on the line. I don't like that is the reality, but it doesn't matter what I like...unfortunately, it is the reality.

[fredtoast]

(10-20-2020, 05:45 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Half of those numbers came in one game. Outside that game, Carlos has been just another guy on the line. I don't like that is the reality, but it doesn't matter what I like...unfortunately, it is the reality.

My point is that the other DEs don't seem to be playing any better.

Maybe the coaches are seeing more on film than I am, but this feels like another Dalton/Finley situation where the coaches just don't have a clue what they are doing.

[Hoofhearted]

(10-20-2020, 05:36 PM)J24 Wrote: Or why not play him? It's silly to a HOF player and not use him.

Because he’s been injured and not played well. Why would they NOT play him if he helped them win?

[Bengalholic]

(10-20-2020, 05:17 PM)J24 Wrote: Atkins has only played 36 snaps this season so I have zero idea how anyone can honestly give an opinion of his play so far 

Secondly Dunlap played well the previous 3 games so once again the demise of him has been extremely exaggerated just like last season.

Atkins was in on 11 3rd downs this week. He was a complete nonfactor in those situations. 

As for Carlos, he's had no substantial impact outside the Eagles game except for an occasional here or there.

This doesn't even require opinions, it's just the reality of where these guys are at the moment.

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-20-2020, 05:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here you go using hindsight again.

It's not freaking hindsight.  I even mentioned this later in the post, that you coincidently left out.

I called for trading these guys last season, for the same exact reasons.  As did many others.

[Hoofhearted]

(10-20-2020, 05:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My point is that the other DEs don't seem to be playing any better.

Maybe the coaches are seeing more on film than I am, but this feels like another Dalton/Finley situation where the coaches just don't have a clue what they are doing.

Do you or anyone else know the percentage of snaps Los has been asked to drop into coverage? I seen that as a possibility but I don’t pay close enough attention to that or have access to advance stats. This would support that idea of coaches having no idea what they are doing (besides the poor record). I do know the defensive stats as a while has been better thus year tho.

[fredtoast]

(10-20-2020, 05:52 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Atkins was in on 11 3rd downs this week. He was a complete nonfactor in those situations. 

As for Carlos, he's had no substantial impact outside the Eagles game except for an occasional here or there.

This doesn't even require opinions, it's just the reality of where these guys are at the moment.

Yeah, they don't look good.

But what DE has played well enough to push Dunlap to the bench?

We are undefeated hen Dunlap plays at least 75% of the snaps, and we have not won a game where he has played less.

[Sled21]

(10-20-2020, 05:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My point is that the other DEs don't seem to be playing any better.

Maybe the coaches are seeing more on film than I am, but this feels like another Dalton/Finley situation where the coaches just don't have a clue what they are doing.

I believe what the coaches are doing is telling Dunlap his performance so far is unacceptable, and if he wants to play and start here, he has to do better. Otherwise, just let him continue to just take up space. It's really not rocket science

[Tony]

It's obvious we are in rebuild mode and are gonna have a significant turnover soon.. They need to see what they can get for all these vets that aren't part of the future, so we can right the ship sooner than later and use the money in FA next year to keep fixing the Offense and Defensive lines. You gotta build from the trenches out..

[Tony]

(10-20-2020, 05:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, they don't look good.

But what DE has played well enough to push Dunlap to the bench?

We are undefeated hen Dunlap plays at least 75% of the snaps, and we have not won a game where he has played less.

Dude it was the jags... Come on now... You are cherry picking again... It's hard to take you serious sometimes..

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-20-2020, 05:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Geno was coming off a Pro Bowl season.

Please quit referencing this fact, as if it actually means something.

The Pro Bowl is nothing but a popularity contest, driven by name recognition.  It's been that way forever, and it's never been more apparent than recently.

Geno Atkins came nowhere close to playing to his contract value last season.  Regardless of whether or not he made the Pro Bowl.  He showed serious decline last season.

When you factor in said decline, his age (32), and the amount remaing on his contract going into 2020 (3 years, 45 million), it made perfect sense to consider moving on sooner rather than later.

This is what good teams do.  Especially when they're in the midst of a rebuild, and are coming off a 2-14 season.  You don't hang on to the past, in hopes old players can transform you into SB contender overnight.  You realize that you need to start building for 2 years and out, and aging players like Dunlap and Atkins don't fit into long-term plans.

To each their own, I could simply point to the fact that everything about this season points to people like me being right all along, and people like you being completely wrong, and now look more foolish than ever.  But I won't do that.  I'll be the bigger man here.