Scoring, or more accurately lack there of

[*bengalfan74*]

I was fairly pumped getting an "offensive" coach I have to admit. I had some doubts but overall just happy to finally be rid of ML.

But here's the facts 22 games in.

18.5 points per game under the offensive guru. And yes I know everybodies gonna yell Oline from the top of a mountain. But there are a bunch of teams with very near as bad of an Oline that struggle nowhere near the way we do.

I searched for a bit but couldn't find any redzone stats but I'm quite sure over those 22 games we've been one of the NFL's worst in those final 20 yards.

I remember during a game last season Steve Young asking "where's the innovation ? where's the motion ?" and so on.

And why was the Oline basically totally ignored ? Was ZT really happy with this bunch ? Did he really wanna hang his hat on Hart, Price, Jordan, Redmond and so on ?

I don't know what the answers are but the results have to change. 18.5 from this offensive mind is just unacceptable.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

If you were pumped by Zac Taylor and thought he was an "offensive guru", you did 0 research.

Guy was bad for 5 games in Miami, guy was straight dumpster fire for 1 year in NCAA for Cincinnati, and then he spent 1 year as an ASSISTANT Wide Receivers Coach and then 1 year as a QB Coach (after Goff had already put up a 100+ QB Rating season without him) before being given the keys to HC/Playcaller for the Bengals.

This was honestly one of the most predictable failures there has ever been.

[fredtoast]

(10-21-2020, 04:04 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If you were pumped by Zac Taylor and thought he was an "offensive guru", you did 0 research.

Many people did not care because no one could be worse than Marvin Lewis.  I was a big defender of Marvin Lewis, but even I said he had to go.....after the 2017 season.

But while I did not want to keep Marvin I knew we could do a lot worse.  And when I question Taylor many people here accused me of just "defending Marvin".

Taylor was getting some hype from around the league so it wasn't a crazy hire like when we pulled Jay Gruden from the Arena league.  But the funny thing is that while most of the members here thought the Gruden hire made us a "laughingstock" it actually worked out very well.  So I was willing to give Taylor a chance.  I actually was more worried about his staff than him.  I really felt we needed some experienced coordinators to help him out.

[Hoofhearted]

I mean just look at how Lou is doing last year compared to this year. Even though his D sucked ass last game, on the year it's still been quite a bit better statistically than last year. Zach has maintained the same level of crap as the previous year with not as bad of injuries as Lou has to work with.

[Essex Johnson]

Area of concern for sure, Taylor and Burrow need to raise their game in the Red Zone and finish with TDs., we could have 3 wins with some improvement.

[Joelist]

Lou seems to be learning some stuff, Zac not so much. We have to remember the defense has been crippled by losing pretty much the entire DL between injuries and benching.

[The Caped Crusader]

I still think the team lacks any sort of identity on offense. It's pretty confusing and hard to watch. Usually you build your offense to what you have or in case of the NFL, seek talent to fit your schemes. I'm not really sure what scheme ZT is running. Sometimes he'll go full spread, hurry up, then go single back slowed tempo. It really effects the flow.

I've been watching tons of other games this season, particularly the good teams. They have some sort of noticeable scheme or identity.

I think this directly reflects in the lack of scoring and ability to convert crucial plays (primarily short downs and red zone opportunities)

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-21-2020, 04:04 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If you were pumped by Zac Taylor and thought he was an "offensive guru", you did 0 research.

Guy was bad for 5 games in Miami, guy was straight dumpster fire for 1 year in NCAA for Cincinnati, and then he spent 1 year as an ASSISTANT Wide Receivers Coach and then 1 year as a QB Coach (after Goff had already put up a 100+ QB Rating season without him) before being given the keys to HC/Playcaller for the Bengals.

This was honestly one of the most predictable failures there has ever been.

Yeah, he has always been a bad play caller pretty much. I think the FO fell for the McVay talk and Taylor's demeanor. 

Taylor talked himself into a job it seems, I was just hoping he would of handed over the keys as a play caller to someone else
and just stayed in the communication department where his strength is. Must have too big of an ego for this I guess.

Regardless, what BF74 said is true, terrible Offensively even with a bad OL it is terrible.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-21-2020, 04:00 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I was fairly pumped getting an "offensive" coach I have to admit. I had some doubts but overall just happy to finally be rid of ML.

But here's the facts 22 games in.

18.5 points per game under the offensive guru. And yes I know everybodies gonna yell Oline from the top of a mountain. But there are a bunch of teams with very near as bad of an Oline that struggle nowhere near the way we do.

I searched for a bit but couldn't find any redzone stats but I'm quite sure over those 22 games we've been one of the NFL's worst in those final 20 yards.

I remember during a game last season Steve Young asking "where's the innovation ? where's the motion ?" and so on.

And why was the Oline basically totally ignored ? Was ZT really happy with this bunch ? Did he really wanna hang his hat on Hart, Price, Jordan, Redmond and so on ?

I don't know what the answers are but the results have to change. 18.5 from this offensive mind is just unacceptable.

I completely understand the frustration, but how much of this was our misperception about the weapons, not just the line? 

AJ Green has arguably been the third best receiver on the team behind Boyd and Higgins. Look at how the offense struggled when the Ratbirds put their best CB on our slot WR.  Nothing.  Nothing to the outsides at all, and of course they abandoned running the ball again.  

I thought Ross being on the field with Green and Boyd would be amazing.  He would take the proverbial top off the defense and Green, Boyd, and Sample/Uzo would eat underneath.  

We were so encouraged (or at least I was) of the mid-season schematic change to the offensive line and how Mixon took off.  It was "pick your poison" offense.  We would be unstoppable.  Oh, and we have Joe fricking Burrow!  

Only the very last statement proved valuable this year.  We see the potential in Burrow.  But Green, Ross, and Mixon from a rushing standpoint have been massive disappointments.  That being said, they are averaging 21.5 PPG THIS season, including a clunker against the Ratbirds.  

Now we are seeing Green show signs of life.  Higgins is emerging.  Sample is at least serviceable.  The line is improving (but it is probably hard to go anywhere but up).

I will give them the rest of this year to see if they can do these three basic things:

1.) Average 24 points per game or higher.  As you pointed out, it is the only stat that really matters (and it will correlate to wins).  They need to finish drives and overcome drops, penalties, and be more creative and aggressive in their play calling.  

2.) Get some consistency on defense

3.) Stop giving up points EVERY DAMN GAME in the 2 minutes before the half.  

In the offseason, I made Joseph Thuney my #1 priority.  He plays RG and XSF goes to LG.  They can continue to try and develop Jordan.  Hart competes with Adeniji for RT.   Get whatever trade equity you can for the likes of Green, Dunlap, Atkins, and Ross.  Spend a lot of picks on the trenches.  Defensive Tackle, Defensive End, and G/OT should be the first three picks.  I think you can get a burner WR from a small school to stretch defenses since we never seem to use Ross on screens and jet sweeps.  

[Yojimbo]

(10-21-2020, 04:15 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I mean just look at how Lou is doing last year compared to this year. Even though his D sucked ass last game, on the year it's still been quite a bit better statistically than last year. Zach has maintained the same level of crap as the previous year with not as bad of injuries as Lou has to work with.

Lou’s so good Zac Turner took away his 3rd down play calling ability and handed them to the LB coach. The only thing the defense is better out statistically this year versus last, is points allowed, passing yards allowed and rushing touchdowns allowed. All other categories are pretty much identical. Total yards, rushing yards, passing TDs all rank within 1 or 2 spots the same as last year.

Same goes for offense, the only improved categories statistically are points scored and rushing touchdowns. Total yards, passing yards, rushing yards, passing TDs all within 1 or 2 spots of the same ranking as last year.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-21-2020, 04:43 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I completely understand the frustration, but how much of this was our misperception about the weapons, not just the line? 

AJ Green has arguably been the third best receiver on the team behind Boyd and Higgins. Look at how the offense struggled when the Ratbirds put their best CB on our slot WR.  Nothing.  Nothing to the outsides at all, and of course they abandoned running the ball again.  

I thought Ross being on the field with Green and Boyd would be amazing.  He would take the proverbial top off the defense and Green, Boyd, and Sample/Uzo would eat underneath.  

We were so encouraged (or at least I was) of the mid-season schematic change to the offensive line and how Mixon took off.  It was "pick your poison" offense.  We would be unstoppable.  Oh, and we have Joe fricking Burrow!  

Only the very last statement proved valuable this year.  We see the potential in Burrow.  But Green, Ross, and Mixon from a rushing standpoint have been massive disappointments.  That being said, they are averaging 21.5 PPG THIS season, including a clunker against the Ratbirds.  

Now we are seeing Green show signs of life.  Higgins is emerging.  Sample is at least serviceable.  The line is improving (but it is probably hard to go anywhere but up).

I will give them the rest of this year to see if they can do these three basic things:

1.) Average 24 points per game or higher.  As you pointed out, it is the only stat that really matters (and it will correlate to wins).  They need to finish drives and overcome drops, penalties, and be more creative and aggressive in their play calling.  

2.) Get some consistency on defense

3.) Stop giving up points EVERY DAMN GAME in the 2 minutes before the half.  

In the offseason, I made Joseph Thuney my #1 priority.  He plays RG and XSF goes to LG.  They can continue to try and develop Jordan.  Hart competes with Adeniji for RT.   Get whatever trade equity you can for the likes of Green, Dunlap, Atkins, and Ross.  Spend a lot of picks on the trenches.  Defensive Tackle, Defensive End, and G/OT should be the first three picks.  I think you can get a burner WR from a small school to stretch defenses since we never seem to use Ross on screens and jet sweeps.  

It isn't over yet. We could bring in Quinton Spain today and it would be an immediate upgrade at Guard.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-21-2020, 04:04 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If you were pumped by Zac Taylor and thought he was an "offensive guru", you did 0 research.

Guy was bad for 5 games in Miami, guy was straight dumpster fire for 1 year in NCAA for Cincinnati, and then he spent 1 year as an ASSISTANT Wide Receivers Coach and then 1 year as a QB Coach (after Goff had already put up a 100+ QB Rating season without him) before being given the keys to HC/Playcaller for the Bengals.

This was honestly one of the most predictable failures there has ever been.

Hoping like hell he could change our direction might be more appropriate ?

[Hoofhearted]

(10-21-2020, 04:46 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Lou’s so good Zac Turner took away his 3rd down play calling ability and handed them to the LB coach. The only thing the defense is better out statistically this year versus last, is points allowed, passing yards allowed and rushing touchdowns allowed. All other categories are pretty much identical. Same goes for offense, the only improved categories statistically are points scored and rushing touchdowns.

Zimmer & Guenther did it under Marv. Morris with ATL did it. It's not really that un-common. 

It's not a huge difference, but he's making better progress than his counterpart. Currently pass D is 13th and rush D is 23. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-21-2020, 04:31 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: I still think the team lacks any sort of identity on offense. It's pretty confusing and hard to watch. Usually you build your offense to what you have or in case of the NFL, seek talent to fit your schemes. I'm not really sure what scheme ZT is running. Sometimes he'll go full spread, hurry up, then go single back slowed tempo. It really effects the flow.

I've been watching tons of other games this season, particularly the good teams. They have some sort of noticeable scheme or identity.

I think this directly reflects in the lack of scoring and ability to convert crucial plays (primarily short downs and red zone opportunities)

I agree

It seems like he just slings plays up against the wall going all over the map. There seems to be no flow, no real plan just flip to the next page in the book and pick something.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-21-2020, 04:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It isn't over yet. We could bring in Quinton Spain today and it would be an immediate upgrade at Guard.

Fingers crossed 

[*ochocincos*]

(10-21-2020, 04:00 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I was fairly pumped getting an "offensive" coach I have to admit. I had some doubts but overall just happy to finally be rid of ML.

But here's the facts 22 games in.

18.5 points per game under the offensive guru. And yes I know everybodies gonna yell Oline from the top of a mountain. But there are a bunch of teams with very near as bad of an Oline that struggle nowhere near the way we do.

I searched for a bit but couldn't find any redzone stats but I'm quite sure over those 22 games we've been one of the NFL's worst in those final 20 yards.

I remember during a game last season Steve Young asking "where's the innovation ? where's the motion ?" and so on.

And why was the Oline basically totally ignored ? Was ZT really happy with this bunch ? Did he really wanna hang his hat on Hart, Price, Jordan, Redmond and so on ?

I don't know what the answers are but the results have to change. 18.5 from this offensive mind is just unacceptable.

A more accurate statement rather than 18.5 PPG during Taylor's tenure is a breakdown between 2019 and 2020.
In 2019, they averaged 17.5 PPG
In 2020, they are averaging 21.5 PPG.

That's a +4 increase.

This offense is weakened by the following things:
- Odd playcalling that doesn't seem to cater to the strengths of the personnel
- Atrocious OG performance
- A C who is not good at run blocking
- A RT who is not good at pass blocking
- A TE who is not good at pass blocking and inconsistent as a pass catcher from a production standpoint.

First step is to get this offense a good OL.
I think the TE situation will be ok next year if Uzomah can look like he was to start this season and/or Sample can improve his consistency.
I'd love to see Taylor stop thinking he can handle the offensive playcalling duties along with HC duties and just focus on being a HC. Give the playcalling to someone who has proven success doing it.

[PCB Bengal Fan]

(10-21-2020, 04:00 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I was fairly pumped getting an "offensive" coach I have to admit. I had some doubts but overall just happy to finally be rid of ML.

But here's the facts 22 games in.

18.5 points per game under the offensive guru. And yes I know everybodies gonna yell Oline from the top of a mountain. But there are a bunch of teams with very near as bad of an Oline that struggle nowhere near the way we do.

I searched for a bit but couldn't find any redzone stats but I'm quite sure over those 22 games we've been one of the NFL's worst in those final 20 yards.

I remember during a game last season Steve Young asking "where's the innovation ? where's the motion ?" and so on.

And why was the Oline basically totally ignored ? Was ZT really happy with this bunch ? Did he really wanna hang his hat on Hart, Price, Jordan, Redmond and so on ?

I don't know what the answers are but the results have to change. 18.5 from this offensive mind is just unacceptable.

I would rather have Joe Burrow calling plays in the No Huddle. Couldn't be much worse than Taylor could he?

[*jason*]

(10-21-2020, 04:46 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Lou’s so good Zac Turner took away his 3rd down play calling ability and handed them to the LB coach. The only thing the defense is better out statistically this year versus last, is points allowed, passing yards allowed and rushing touchdowns allowed. All other categories are pretty much identical. Total yards, rushing yards, passing TDs all rank within 1 or 2 spots the same as last year.

Same goes for offense, the only improved categories statistically are points scored and rushing touchdowns. Total yards, passing yards, rushing yards, passing TDs all within 1 or 2 spots of the same ranking as last year.

It seemed the Colts were open by 5 yards on every passing play last Sunday... Awful.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-21-2020, 05:00 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Hoping like hell he could change our direction might be more appropriate ?

Straight down is indeed a direction.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-21-2020, 05:46 PM)PCB Bengal Fan Wrote: I would rather have Joe Burrow calling plays in the No Huddle. Couldn't be much worse than Taylor could he?

I don't know how