Brandin Cooks

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

There's been a lot of talk about the Texans shopping their guys and how all their WRs are available. They look like they're going to go into some turmoil now that O'Brien is gone and they'll bring in new folks.

I think it'd be smart if the Bengals went after Cooks. A 3rd, a 6th, and AJ Green (for money reasons). The Bengals would snag 3.5 years of a productive 4.3 speed WR to combine with Boyd and Higgins, the Texans get some picks for their new guy who'll come in this offseason and probably can trade AJ to another team for a 6th or so.

Cooks is 27 and under contract for $8m (so ~$4.5m left) this year, $12m in 21, $12m in 22, and $12.5m in 23 with $0 in dead money in all three years.

WR would be set for the Bengals for at least the next 3 years with Boyd/Higgins/Cooks (which is roughly how long they have before Burrow's $ will explode into silly numbers), and with WR set they could focus all their attention on OL.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-29-2020, 08:41 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There's been a lot of talk about the Texans shopping their guys and how all their WRs are available. They look like they're going to go into some turmoil now that O'Brien is gone and they'll bring in new folks.

I think it'd be smart if the Bengals went after Cooks. A 3rd, a 6th, and AJ Green (for money reasons). The Bengals would snag 3.5 years of a productive 4.3 speed WR to combine with Boyd and Higgins, the Texans get some picks for their new guy who'll come in this offseason and probably can trade AJ to another team for a 6th or so.

Cooks is 27 and under contract for $8m (so ~$4.5m left) this year, $12m in 21, $12m in 22, and $12.5m in 23 with $0 in dead money in all three years.

WR would be set for the Bengals for at least the next 3 years with Boyd/Higgins/Cooks (which is roughly how long they have before Burrow's $ will explode into silly numbers), and with WR set they could focus all their attention on OL.

While I think Cooks would be a nice vertical threat to complement Boyd and Higgins, there is no way you give away your borderline future HOF WR, AND two draft picks.  The draft picks next season will be even more valuable since there are a lot of cap questions and teams in cap jeopardy.  The Texans wouldn't get anything by taking Green, who is only under contract this season.  

I would consider offering a single fourth round pick for Cooks.  That's it.  You might say they would never do it and that is fine, but where the Bengal's fourth round pick is likely to slot, that is pretty high compensation.  The Texans are going to need a lot of picks to fix what O'Brien did there.

I would just let AJ walk after this season, unless he signs a very team-friendly deal that the team can get out of after two years and maybe $7 million per year.  I think he and his agent will be unrealistic with what they perceive as his value.  He won't get more than that elsewhere, either.  He has played well the past couple weeks, but he is a far cry from being the $18 million per year player he was prior.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-29-2020, 08:57 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: While I think Cooks would be a nice vertical threat to complement Boyd and Higgins, there is no way you give away your borderline future HOF WR, AND two draft picks.  The draft picks next season will be even more valuable since there are a lot of cap questions and teams in cap jeopardy.  The Texans wouldn't get anything by taking Green, who is only under contract this season.  

I would consider offering a single fourth round pick for Cooks.  That's it.  You might say they would never do it and that is fine, but where the Bengal's fourth round pick is likely to slot, that is pretty high compensation.  The Texans are going to need a lot of picks to fix what O'Brien did there.

I would just let AJ walk after this season, unless he signs a very team-friendly deal that the team can get out of after two years and maybe $7 million per year.  I think he and his agent will be unrealistic with what they perceive as his value.  He won't get more than that elsewhere, either.  He has played well the past couple weeks, but he is a far cry from being the $18 million per year player he was prior.  

"Give away"... he's gone after this year anyway. I specifically mentioned that the Green inclusion is mostly for a money transfer. I don't know how much Spain is getting from the Bengals if he does sign here, so there's cap limits to be considered. Also the Texans can trade him before the deadline for a later round pick most likely, and if not he's off their books after this year.

If you let AJ walk after this season, you're literally giving him away (to FA) for nothing. He's not going to sign for $7m/yr. That's would put him between Cole Beasley and Marquise Goodwin. He's not a $18m/yr player, agreed, but he's not Marquise Goodwin or Cole Beasley.

The Texans gave up a 2nd (and got back a 4th) for Cooks just this last offseason. He's a low-1/extremely high-2 WR who's still in his prime and is due zero guaranteed dollars over the next 3 years. You're have to give up something decent if you want something decent.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-29-2020, 09:06 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: "Give away"... he's gone after this year anyway. I specifically mentioned that the Green inclusion is mostly for a money transfer. I don't know how much Spain is getting from the Bengals if he does sign here, so there's cap limits to be considered. Also the Texans can trade him before the deadline for a later round pick most likely, and if not he's off their books after this year.

If you let AJ walk after this season, you're literally giving him away (to FA) for nothing. He's not going to sign for $7m/yr. That's would put him between Cole Beasley and Marquise Goodwin. He's not a $18m/yr player, agreed, but he's not Marquise Goodwin or Cole Beasley.

The Texans gave up a 2nd (and got back a 4th) for Cooks just this last offseason. He's a low-1/extremely high-2 WR who's still in his prime and is due zero guaranteed dollars over the next 3 years. You're have to give up something decent if you want something decent.

Good stuff looking up what the Texans gave up.  What you are saying is they essentially gave up a high #3 based on their point value between the picks and where the Texans were picking (toward the end as they won a playoff game last year).  I would offer our fourth, and no more.  There won't be many teams in the league capable of having the funds to take Cooks' contract.  The Bengals could do it.  And the Bengals will have a high fourth round pick.  

I actually really like the idea of going after him.  I just don't think Green will be a part of it.  The Bengals will offer Green around 7-8 million, he won't accept it, and they will get a compensatory pick back for him.  Maybe that would sweeten the deal for the Texans if they saw getting Green extended as unlikely and they got the compensatory pick next year?  

[Nicomo Cosca]

Cooks would be a great addition. He’s exactly what we need at WR. Too bad O’Brien isn’t still running things though, as we could have probably fleeced them like Arizona did for Hopkins.

I do like the idea of not having to worry about WR at all in the next few drafts.

Interesting proposal, TLL.

[schroomytunes]

I still think it's too much money to spend at that position. We can get one in the draft to be a #3 while using that money to focus on upgrading the offensive and defensive lines. I'm very happy with Boyd and Higgins for 2021, and we can get a guy in the 4th rd, or even a FA much more team friendly.

[Wes Mantooth]

Fwiw, here are the trade values for the picks used in the Cooks deal last year:

Rams
4th Round - 111 value

Texans
2nd Round - 380 value

If you take the differential, which is where Brandon Cooks comes into play, it puts you at a high 3rd round value.

Now, none of this is science, and the values change depending on the draft, but I think it gives you an idea of what his worth was in that deal.

There's a couple ways to look at his value now. Either contending teams, who desperately needs WR help, drive up his price because it's in-season and supply is low. Or, because he's being traded yet again his price suffers. I'm not really sure. The answer probably lies somewhere in the middle.

IMHO, I think a 3rd straight up for gets the deal done, especially a 3rd like ours, which will be on the higher side.

I don't hate this move (getting Cooks). But I'm not sure they'd want AJ if they're shedding contracts. I'm not even sure they'd want to rent him. I'd rather move AJ seperately if possible.

I have to big concerns with Cooks though. 1.) He's going to be on his 5th team in 7 years. With the production he's had it makes me wonder if he's just a bad teammate. 2.) He does have some concussion history.

All this said, he'd really nice just for the fact that we could move at any time without owing him a cent, he's only 27, he's a proven weapon, and he fills a need (deep threat).

The move to make with him, would be to restructure his deal. He's been paid all his guarantees, none are left. Leverage that to negotiate a cheaper 3 year deal. Offer him some guarantees up front to bring the cost down a bit. Instead of 3 years remaing for 39 million with no guarantees, get him to work something like 3 years 32 million, with 12 guaranteed.

[shanebo]

Meh. I don't love Cooks at $12m/yr for the next 3 years... That's top 15 WR money, and he hasn't been a top 15 WR for a couple of years. He's a small guy (5'10", 183) with a pretty significant injury history (concussions), and not really a no. 1 (multiple games with no or very few catches/yards). I see him as kind of a poor man's Desean Jackson/rich man's John Ross. The $0 guarantee is appealing, but I wouldn't want to give up too much for him ...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-29-2020, 12:02 PM)shanebo Wrote: Meh. I don't love Cooks at $12m/yr for the next 3 years... That's top 15 WR money, and he hasn't been a top 15 WR for a couple of years. He's a small guy (5'10", 183) with a pretty significant injury history (concussions), and not really a no. 1 (multiple games with no or very few catches/yards). I see him as kind of a poor man's Desean Jackson/rich man's John Ross. The $0 guarantee is appealing, but I wouldn't want to give up too much for him ...

Sounds like a downright bargain compared to the 18 mil we’re currently paying AJ...

[*ochocincos*]

(10-29-2020, 08:41 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There's been a lot of talk about the Texans shopping their guys and how all their WRs are available. They look like they're going to go into some turmoil now that O'Brien is gone and they'll bring in new folks.

I think it'd be smart if the Bengals went after Cooks. A 3rd, a 6th, and AJ Green (for money reasons). The Bengals would snag 3.5 years of a productive 4.3 speed WR to combine with Boyd and Higgins, the Texans get some picks for their new guy who'll come in this offseason and probably can trade AJ to another team for a 6th or so.

Cooks is 27 and under contract for $8m (so ~$4.5m left) this year, $12m in 21, $12m in 22, and $12.5m in 23 with $0 in dead money in all three years.

WR would be set for the Bengals for at least the next 3 years with Boyd/Higgins/Cooks (which is roughly how long they have before Burrow's $ will explode into silly numbers), and with WR set they could focus all their attention on OL.

Should the Bengals be paying $10+ mill for their WR3?
Especially when that money could go toward a position of bigger need like OL or DL?

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-29-2020, 12:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Should the Bengals be paying $10+ mill for their WR3?
Especially when that money could go toward a position of bigger need like OL or DL?

What makes you think he'd be WR3?

In a Boyd, Cooks, Higgins group I don't think you can say that anyone is automatically ahead of anyone else.  You could make an argument for each and every one of them to lead the team in yards in 2021.

I'd like to think of someone like him more as filling a role. We need a deep threat he can stretch the field. To find that in the draft is going to require a relatively high pick and even then you're not going to be guaranteed production in year 1. And to find in FA is going to cost money. Guys like Adam Humphries see 8 mil deals.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-29-2020, 01:01 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: What makes you think he'd be WR3?

In a Boyd, Cooks, Higgins group I don't think you can say that anyone is automatically ahead of anyone else.  You could make an argument for each and every one of them to lead the team in yards in 2021.

I'd like to think of someone like him more as filling a role.  We need a deep threat he can stretch the field.  To find that in the draft is going to require a relatively high pick and even then you're not going to be guaranteed production in year 1.  And to find in FA is going to cost money.  Guys like Adam Humphries see 8 mil deals.

Fair.

Let me rephrase - With Boyd playing very well and Higgins also playing well, I don't think this team needs to spend that much for another WR.

If they were to get Cooks, I see one of three things happening:
1) Cooks doesn't get enough targets/production to justify that cost
2) The addition of Cooks cuts into Higgins's opportunities
3) This team goes even more pass-oriented to feed all of Boyd, Higgins, Cooks, and Uzomah/Sample, thus resulting in their running game not being used as much, thus potentially devaluing Mixon, who was just paid about the same as what Cooks is making.

I like the thought of adding Josh Reynolds, who has good speed and size, he just isn't blazing fast like Cooks. He's playing well for LAR right now, on pace for over 600 yards as their WR3 behind Woods and Kupp. Plus, he had familiarity with Tayor, and I would imagine he'd come at half the price (or less) than Cooks.

But that's just my take. I understand the value Cooks would bring and he could do well. I just think there're better places to put that money than another WR.
You could sell me more on it though if the Bengals released Uzomah to free up an extra $5.3 mill to help cover the cap hit.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-29-2020, 09:49 AM)schroomytunes Wrote: I still think it's too much money to spend at that position. We can get one in the draft to be a #3 while using that money to focus on upgrading the offensive and defensive lines. I'm very happy with Boyd and Higgins for 2021, and we can get a guy in the 4th rd, or even a FA much more team friendly.

I would much rather spend on Thuney to be our RG for the next 5 years, but that doesn't prevent me from wanting Cooks.  With Dunlap off the books, and AJ not likely returning, Ross sure to be gone, there should be some money available for both.  

If Spain is signed and he ends up being a find (or Finney, but I see that as more of a stop gap) then they may not need Thuney and I can't think of anything else really missing on our offense than a proven vertical threat.  

If you spend the FA dollars there, you can allocate all three of the first picks in the draft to defensive line.  

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(10-29-2020, 08:57 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: While I think Cooks would be a nice vertical threat to complement Boyd and Higgins, there is no way you give away your borderline future HOF WR, AND two draft picks.  The draft picks next season will be even more valuable since there are a lot of cap questions and teams in cap jeopardy.  The Texans wouldn't get anything by taking Green, who is only under contract this season.  

I would consider offering a single fourth round pick for Cooks.  That's it.  You might say they would never do it and that is fine, but where the Bengal's fourth round pick is likely to slot, that is pretty high compensation.  The Texans are going to need a lot of picks to fix what O'Brien did there.

I would just let AJ walk after this season, unless he signs a very team-friendly deal that the team can get out of after two years and maybe $7 million per year.  I think he and his agent will be unrealistic with what they perceive as his value.  He won't get more than that elsewhere, either.  He has played well the past couple weeks, but he is a far cry from being the $18 million per year player he was prior.  

AJ Green should bring a 5th round compensatory pick in 2022.

If you want to even up the money side of things a little I'd have thought Ross would be a better shout as he'd be easier to fit in financially for any acquiring team. Maybe Ross and a 4th?

[Sled21]

(10-29-2020, 02:06 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: AJ Green should bring a 5th round compensatory pick in 2022.

If you want to even up the money side of things a little I'd have thought Ross would be a better shout as he'd be easier to fit in financially for any acquiring team. Maybe Ross and a 4th?

By the end of the year, AJ will either be back to his old form or not. If he is, we need to resign him for his last contract. If not, let him go.

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-29-2020, 02:06 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: AJ Green should bring a 5th round compensatory pick in 2022.

I'm 99.9% sure AJ Green cannot count towards a compensatory pick.  It's a franchise tag and/or age thing.

Not to mention, we should be pretty active in free agency.  To be eligible for compensatory picks you need to lose more than you gain.  There's a whole points system where it's scored collectively, not solely player by player.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(10-29-2020, 02:32 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I'm 99.9% sure AJ Green cannot count towards a compensatory pick.  It's a franchise tag and/or age thing.

Not to mention, we should be pretty active in free agency.  To be eligible for compensatory picks you need to lose more than you gain.  There's a whole points system where it's scored collectively, not solely player by player.

The age thing (or more accurately years' service) means a team can only get a 5th at most and not a 3rd for him. 

I'm not aware of any rule preventing players coming off franchise tags not being eligible for comp picks.

How active we were in free agency wouldn't affect Houston's entitlement if they traded for him.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-29-2020, 02:06 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: AJ Green should bring a 5th round compensatory pick in 2022.

If you want to even up the money side of things a little I'd have thought Ross would be a better shout as he'd be easier to fit in financially for any acquiring team. Maybe Ross and a 4th?

I would drive him there myself for a fourth.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-29-2020, 08:41 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There's been a lot of talk about the Texans shopping their guys and how all their WRs are available. They look like they're going to go into some turmoil now that O'Brien is gone and they'll bring in new folks.

I think it'd be smart if the Bengals went after Cooks. A 3rd, a 6th, and AJ Green (for money reasons). The Bengals would snag 3.5 years of a productive 4.3 speed WR to combine with Boyd and Higgins, the Texans get some picks for their new guy who'll come in this offseason and probably can trade AJ to another team for a 6th or so.

Cooks is 27 and under contract for $8m (so ~$4.5m left) this year, $12m in 21, $12m in 22, and $12.5m in 23 with $0 in dead money in all three years.

WR would be set for the Bengals for at least the next 3 years with Boyd/Higgins/Cooks (which is roughly how long they have before Burrow's $ will explode into silly numbers), and with WR set they could focus all their attention on OL.

At first, I was like doubt it. But damn, makes a lot of sense. We get younger and are set up for years at WR all the while dumping 
AJ's dough and it might work out for the Texans in the long run as well. We get a relatively young PROVEN deep threat that is used
to going to different teams and thriving. A 3rd, a 6th and AJ sounds fair to me. Good idea TLL.

[*bengalfan74*]

I’m just of the opinion this teams focus should be the Oline and Dline. And trading away draft picks for another skill player just does nothing for that.