Burrow Offensive Rookie of the Year?

[Hoofhearted]

I think Burrow is better between the ears than Herbert. I think he's just like Brees: not a rocket arm, but his processing of information is outstanding. While Herbert can make all the throws, the few games I've watched he's been a one read QB. Lets see him work progressions after a D starts taking his first read away. Either way, Joe can be the guy to take us all the way without a doubt if the FO can build a team around him over the next 4 years.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-09-2020, 02:26 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Can you imagine JB with 2014 or whatever year it was T. Eifert ?

Eifert had 13 TD’s in 2015. He was an integral part of our offense. Dalton wouldn’t have been in the “MVP conversation” without him.

We have to get Burrow a play making TE at some point. It would be silly not to. The kid out of Florida would be insane, but I’m sure half the board would meltdown if we went TE in the 1st. Lol

[AlphaBengal]

(11-09-2020, 02:32 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I think Burrow is better between the ears than Herbert. I think he's just like Brees: not a rocket arm, but his processing of information is outstanding. While Herbert can make all the throws, the few games I've watched he's been a one read QB. Lets see him work progressions after a D starts taking his first read away. Either way, Joe can be the guy to take us all the way without a doubt if the FO can build a team around him over the next 4 years.

Brees still had a very, very good arm. Neither of them have cannon's like JaMarcus Russell but they can actually read a defense. I agree with your Herbert assessment, I've yet to see him dissect a defense mid-play and hit the perfect pass like we've seen Burrow do already. Then again he definitely had less reps in training camp and early in the season so he gets a pass for sure. They're also both rookies, but what I've seen from both lead me to think they'll be battling in the playoffs for years to come.

[fredtoast]

(11-09-2020, 02:34 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Eifert had 13 TD’s in 2015. He was an integral part of our offense. Dalton wouldn’t have been in the “MVP conversation” without him.

We have to get Burrow a play making TE at some point.

I thought we needed to get away from QBs that could only succeed when surrounded by a team of Pro Bowlers?

[KillerGoose]

(11-09-2020, 02:32 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I think Burrow is better between the ears than Herbert. I think he's just like Brees: not a rocket arm, but his processing of information is outstanding. While Herbert can make all the throws, the few games I've watched he's been a one read QB. Lets see him work progressions after a D starts taking his first read away. Either way, Joe can be the guy to take us all the way without a doubt if the FO can build a team around him over the next 4 years.

While I agree with the idea of Burrow having an incredible ability to process info, I heavily disagree with Herbert being a “one-read QB”. Herbert is on pace for 4,600 yards, 39 TDs & 11 INTs in 15 games. That pace would equal over 4900 yards and 42 TDs in a full 16 game season, absolutely shattering every major rookie record. You don’t get that kind of production from being a one-read QB.

I do think a fair assessment is that Herbert has been unusually good throwing the ball deep, whereas Burrow has made a living in the intermediate game. I think that bodes well for the longevity of Burrows success, as the vast majority of a teams passing attempts come in that 10-20 yard range. Burrow really thrives there. Herbert isn’t bad by any means, but he isn’t AS good as Burrow is in that area of the field. Herbert has just been significantly better on deeper throws than Burrow.

Overall, they are both looking to be absolute studs and if they both keep playing like this, they will be Super Bowl capable QBs. Also, unless Burrow pulls away with a bunch of victories while the Chargers keep on losing, Herbert has the inside track to winning the OROTY award.

[Essex Johnson]

(11-09-2020, 12:24 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: FYI

Today from ESPN, but again 8 games left. Herbert and Joe are both playing great and both have a shot. The interesting thing is who is sitting in 3rd, it is Joe's former LSU receiver Jefferson who also is lighting it up in a deep rookie WR class.

Offensive Rookie of the Year
This award, on the other hand, is a brutal fight. I have two quarterbacks as locks, which means there are approximately eight players competing for one spot, including one undrafted free agent in Jaguars running back James Robinson. As much as I think they deserve recognition, I had to leave out a pair of impressive tackles in Mekhi Becton (New York Jets) and Tristan Wirfs (Tampa Bay). Receivers CeeDee Lamb (Dallas) and Brandon Aiyuk (San Francisco) might be on the list if their quarterback situations were settled.

In the end, I landed on two receivers for the third spot:


3. Justin Jefferson, WR, Minnesota Vikings
Jefferson beats out Chase Claypool, who has become arguably the most important receiver on the league's only undefeated team. Claypool's four-touchdown game against the Eagles last month instantly put the Notre Dame product on national radars, and his touchdown against the Ravens last week turned out to be the game winner.

ESPN Daily podcast: Bill Barnwell wraps up Week 9

At the same time, don't sleep on what Jefferson has done. Since entering the starting lineup in Week 3, the only players who are averaging more receiving yards per game than the rookie are Davante Adams and DK Metcalf. Nobody in the NFL has averaged more yards per route run than Jefferson, who tops Adams and George Kittle by averaging 3.62 yards per route over that time frame.

Jefferson is the first rookie since the merger with two 150-plus yard games in the first half of his debut season, and while I don't want to be mean, he's doing this with Kirk Cousins as his quarterback. The trade that essentially sent Stefon Diggs to the Bills for the rights to draft Jefferson is turning out to be the most significant win-win swap in recent memory. A Buffalo team that needed a receiver to put it over the top got Diggs, who has been a reliable target for Josh Allen. The cap-strapped Vikings appear to have found a devastating deep threat in the 21-year-old Jefferson.


2. Joe Burrow, QB, Cincinnati Bengals
The No. 1 overall pick continues to get better as the season goes along. He was overmatched behind a porous offensive line in the blowout loss to the Ravens, but in the three games since, he has posted a Total QBR of 81.7, coming in just ahead of Russell Wilson and Ryan Tannehill. Nobody completed more passes between Week 6 and Week 8 than Burrow, who has had to shoulder a significant workload in Cincinnati.

While the Bengals haven't been able to hold onto leads, he continues to put the team in a position to win or extend games. Go week by week:

In Week 1, Burrow drove the team 82 yards and threw a game-winning touchdown to A.J. Green, only for the play to be called back for offensive pass interference. Randy Bullock then missed what would have been a game-tying field goal on the next play with 7 seconds left.

In Week 3, he set up short field goals to push the Bengals up 23-16 with 3:08 to go, only for the defense to allow a Carson Wentz rushing touchdown in what ended up as a tie.

In Week 6, he drove the Bengals into position for a lead-taking field goal in the fourth quarter by competing five passes for 56 yards. They then failed to convert with runs on second-and-3 and third-and-1, and Bullock missed a 48-yard try.

In Week 7, he led an 80-yard touchdown drive in the fourth quarter to take the lead, and when his defense gave up a score, he led a 75-yard drive for a second touchdown. The Cincinnati defense blew that lead when Baker Mayfield threw a game-winning touchdown with 16 seconds left.

The Bengals are 2-5-1, but they could easily have a winning record with slightly more help around Burrow.


Justin Herbert has been a bright spot in the Chargers' season. Kirby Lee/USA TODAY Sports

1. Justin Herbert, QB, Los Angeles Chargers
Of course, we could say the same thing about Herbert, whose Chargers apparently used all their luck in overcoming the Bengals in Week 1. Herbert was installed as the starter on an emergency basis the following week and took the job by the horns. He has mostly been brilliant since taking over, although hard luck, defensive collapses, special-teams fiascos and ill-timed drops have seen the Chargers drop six of his first seven starts.

Herbert is 12th in the league in Total QBR since taking over, with his 76.4 mark coming in between Tom Brady and Deshaun Watson over that same time frame. He's doing that behind an offensive line that has been without star guard Trai Turner for most of the season and key tackle Bryan Bulaga for four games. On the final drive of the game Sunday against the Raiders, Herbert threw nine straight passes to running backs Joshua Kelley and Kalen Ballage, who are respectively the third- and fifth-choice options at the position. His final pass of the game was a fade to backup tight end Donald Parham, who dropped a would-be game winner.


What's incredible with Herbert is just how easy he makes incredibly difficult plays seem. With the game on the line in the fourth quarter, he successfully executed a fourth-and-1 speed option with a Raiders defender coming down at full speed to keep the game alive. After checking down and in desperate need of a big play, the No. 6 overall pick found Mike Williams for a big catch, just as he did with a perfectly thrown ball against the Saints. Then, the Chargers missed a game-winning field goal at the end of regulation. Here, the Chargers called two goal-line fades, got two excellent throws from Herbert, and didn't bring in either. My first thought after watching most Chargers games is how their fans deserve better. My second is that their young quarterback does, too.

Robinson is still a nice rookie on a bad team for Jacksonville, on pace for over 1,200 yards rushing and 14 TDs.. he is right there for 3rd spot 

[Tony]

(11-09-2020, 07:06 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: 4 TD’s from his TE’s certainly helps...

But hey, Drew sure can block!

Everytime I see DK Metcalf go off, I hate Sample a little more. Could you imagine Burrow throwing to a WR Corp made up of DK Metcalf, AJ Green, Tyler Boyd, Tee Higgins.... We are at least 5-3 with DK.. He has the redzone hands and size we are missing... 

[Tony]

(11-09-2020, 12:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Justin Herbert....17 tds in 7 games (4 to TEs)
Joe Burrow........11 tds in 8 games (1 to TE)


Got to all be Samples fault, right?

Yes. 100% dont care about this either. Herbert has also thrown Picks at a high rate.. Burrow is a better QB plain and simple. Burrow is the best player on the Bengals.  Herbert is not the best player in the Chargers. Boy it's real easy to find the Red BB gun lovers around here lol

[Hoofhearted]

(11-09-2020, 02:58 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: While I agree with the idea of Burrow having an incredible ability to process info, I heavily disagree with Herbert being a “one-read QB”. Herbert is on pace for 4,600 yards, 39 TDs & 11 INTs in 15 games. That pace would equal over 4900 yards and 42 TDs in a full 16 game season, absolutely shattering every major rookie record.  You don’t get that kind of production from being a one-read QB.

I do think a fair assessment is that Herbert has been unusually good throwing the ball deep, whereas Burrow has made a living in the intermediate game. I think that bodes well for the longevity of Burrows success, as the vast majority of a teams passing attempts come in that 10-20 yard range. Burrow really thrives there. Herbert isn’t bad by any means, but he isn’t AS good as Burrow is in that area of the field. Herbert has just been significantly better on deeper throws than Burrow.

Overall, they are both looking to be absolute studs and if they both keep playing like this, they will be Super Bowl capable QBs. Also, unless Burrow pulls away with a bunch of victories while the Chargers keep on losing, Herbert has the inside track to winning the OROTY award.

I only watched a few games of Herbert and the ones I did watch, it was mostly one read and get rid of it. Not all the time, but watching Burrow vs him you can tell Burrow is better at reading defenses. You can also tell Herbert just has a stronger arm. I really don't care if he does. Burrow can make all the plays you need to, but maybe not as good in one area as the others. SD also has more speed at WR than we do, so that's also worth noting. 

[Essex Johnson]

(11-09-2020, 07:06 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: 4 TD’s from his TE’s certainly helps...

But hey, Drew sure can block!

Take away TE TD's difference (3) and Herbert still has more TDs and played one less game.. There are variables for both QBS to put one over the other.. fun race rest of day . in the end both Bengals and Chargers right now look to have scored on QBs.. hopefully Burrow will outshine Herbert in the big picture or at least be comparable to each other on a success rate in the future... I would not be complaining having Herbert on our team and Chargers would not be complaining for having Burrow... 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-09-2020, 02:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I thought we needed to get away from QBs that could only succeed when surrounded by a team of Pro Bowlers?

We have. There’s probably not a single Pro Bowler on this offense, and we’re still scoring 30+ points a game.

[IndyTiger]

(11-09-2020, 02:32 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I think Burrow is better between the ears than Herbert. I think he's just like Brees: not a rocket arm, but his processing of information is outstanding. While Herbert can make all the throws, the few games I've watched he's been a one read QB. Lets see him work progressions after a D starts taking his first read away. Either way, Joe can be the guy to take us all the way without a doubt if the FO can build a team around him over the next 4 years.

Two different QBs and two different styles.  Brett Farve vs Drew Brees.   Big strong arm that can make the "WOW" plays, vs precision and accuracy.  Lots of great QBs in both camps.

Brady, Brees, Montana, and Manning are in the precision camp.

Mahomes, Elway, Farve, and Marino are in the "WOW" camp.

[Earendil]

(11-09-2020, 03:10 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We have. There’s probably not a single Pro Bowler on this offense, and we’re still scoring 30+ points a game.

I think you could make a case for Tyler Boyd.

[Essex Johnson]

(11-09-2020, 04:28 PM)IndyTiger Wrote: Two different QBs and two different styles.  Brett Farve vs Drew Brees.   Big strong arm that can make the "WOW" plays, vs precision and accuracy.  Lots of great QBs in both camps.

Brady, Brees, Montana, and Manning are in the precision camp.

Mahomes, Elway, Farve, and Marino are in the "WOW" camp.

Well if we are looking at what they have done rookie year.. they both have the same accuracy 67% so I would not type cast Herbert just as Burrow has being doing better with deep pass so i won;t type cast him on lack of deep pass. 

[Essex Johnson]

(11-09-2020, 03:10 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We have. There’s probably not a single Pro Bowler on this offense, and we’re still scoring 30+ points a game.

For this year.. Boyd is right there.. not like Chargers are loaded with Pro Bowlers .. outside of Allen who is making the pro bowl this year ?  and you have AJ and Mixon that have been Pro Bowlers.. i don;t think any other Charger but Allen has been a Pro Bowler on offense...  Time to give Herbert his due 1/2 half a season.. don;t you think ?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-09-2020, 04:28 PM)Earendil Wrote: I think you could make a case for Tyler Boyd.

I personally think he deserves it. If you’re the best in the league at your position you should be a Pro Bowler. But he’ll probably get snubbed again. He’s on pace for 108 rec 1168 yds 6 TD. I thought he should have went last year too, and he didn’t.

Burrow definitely has this offense humming without being “surrounded by Pro Bowlers” though. I shouldn’t have used the word “need” wrt getting him a playmaker at TE (which ofc Fred cherry picked out of my post). We should get him one, because we could be even better. Especially scoring TD’s in the red zone.

[KillerGoose]

(11-09-2020, 03:07 PM)Tony Wrote: Yes. 100% dont care about this either. Herbert has also thrown Picks at a high rate.. Burrow is a better QB plain and simple. Burrow is the best player on the Bengals.  Herbert is not the best player in the Chargers. Boy it's real easy to find the Red BB gun lovers around here lol

How has Herbert thrown picks at a high rate when he and Burrow have the same amount of picks (5 picks a piece)? Burrow has 1.5% interception percentage compared to 1.9% for Herbert. Herbert also has nearly double the TD percentage that Burrow has (3.3% for Burrow, 6.3% for Herbert). They have both been phenomenal and I do think that Burrow is going to end up being a complete stud, I love the guy. However, to just say that "Burrow is better, plain and simple" is a bit silly because there aren't really any metrics that will support that. 

Herbert is playing better football than Joe right now and that means absolutely nothing in regard to Joe's progression and the prediction of his success here. Joe has made some elite level plays during his first eight games and I am elated for what that means for the team. That also speaks to how well Herbert is playing.  

[KillerGoose]

(11-09-2020, 04:53 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I personally think he deserves it. If you’re the best in the league at your position you should be a Pro Bowler. But he’ll probably get snubbed again. He’s on pace for 108 rec 1168 yds 6 TD. I thought he should have went last year too, and he didn’t.

Burrow definitely has this offense humming without being “surrounded by Pro Bowlers” though. I shouldn’t have used the word “need” wrt getting him a playmaker at TE (which ofc Fred cherry picked out of my post). We should get him one, because we could be even better. Especially scoring TD’s in the red zone.

I agree. Boyd is just a flat out stud. His hands, precise route running and YAC ability remind me a lot of Keenan Allen. I think that Allen is a bit more refined and a better receiver at this current moment, but that is the kind of guy I see in Boyd. I think that is a pretty fitting comparison to make, especially in a thread debating Herbert/Burrow. You can even make the connection of Tee/Williams, if you'd like; big bodied receivers that excel at high-pointing the ball down the field. Big play guys. Tee is currently averaging almost 15 yards a catch with a 63% catch percentage, and he is doing that as a rookie. Higgins has been insanely impressive.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-09-2020, 04:45 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: For this year.. Boyd is right there.. not like Chargers are loaded with Pro Bowlers .. outside of Allen who is making the pro bowl this year ?  and you have AJ and Mixon that have been Pro Bowlers.. i don;t think any other Charger but Allen has been a Pro Bowler on offense...  Time to give Herbert his due 1/2 half a season.. don;t you think ?

Pretty pointless to bring up AJ. He’s clearly not playing anywhere close to Pro Bowl level. And Mixon was only an alternate.

Also, I never refused to give Herbert his due. I just found your infatuation with him annoying considering we also have our own rookie QB who’s balling out. Do you think there’s Chargers fans starting threads and obsessing about Burrow on their boards?

[Essex Johnson]

(11-09-2020, 04:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Pretty pointless to bring up AJ. He’s clearly not playing anywhere close to Pro Bowl level. And Mixon was only an alternate.

Also, I never refused to give Herbert his due. I just found your infatuation with him annoying considering we also have our own rookie QB who’s balling out. Do you think there’s Chargers fans starting threads and obsessing about Burrow on their boards?

well im just nota  homer I guess I am being objective on both  with  comparison in a rooke of year thread of if Burrow will win.. i thought we could actually debate here but guess you don't think so.

As to your pointless you missed my sarcasm  . I threw them in since it seemed pointless when Chargers only have Allen as a Pro Bowler to act like they have a bunch of pro bowlers and to leave out Boyd on our end is pretty slanted don;t you think?  but don;t respond since we can;t debate this anyway