Zak needs 1 more year to change culture

[Luvnit2]

(11-16-2020, 01:53 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Ive been involved in football since age of 8 either player as coach but on to my point.
ZT had a off day coaching yesterday 

He didnt attack the weakness of the Steelers D.
He bothered to watch film on the Cowboys game
Robert Spillane was playing MLB not Devin Bush

ZT failed to lean on the run game 
Perrine and Bernard had running lanes
How many pre snap motions did dufuss Zac Taylor 
Execute yesterday....how many counters runs did.you see.

Did you see a TE middle screen....I sure didnt.
Did you see anything ZT drew up that would confuse
The Steelers defense ??
Did you see any jet sweeps called up.
Heck I.didnt even see a unbalanced oline which still 
Works in this age of football.

Did you see any see no huddle...nope I didnt.
The Steelers defense had ZT figure out at half time.

I agree with all you stated.

The history of our coaches in recent years is the against the Steelers, we come out after the half and lay an egg. Tomlin outcoaches ZT and in past ML. I do remember one home game we came back being down against Steelers when Palmer was here, but that was a long time ago.

Our backup also brought us back in 2nd half in the brutal playoff loss, I call it the Hill fumble loss.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-16-2020, 12:23 PM)R3stangs Wrote: Isn't his full body of work 4-20-1 at this point?

I was referring to play-calling body of work, not record (much of that record isn't fully on him anyways).

[wildcatnku24]

(11-16-2020, 01:46 PM)MickMack Wrote: Stop with this garbage.  Just stop.  Absolutely no one - not a single person on the planet - has ever said ZT needs to take this team to the Super Bowl within a year or two.  ZT is competing for the worst winning percentage of any coach in the NFL ever.  And you're still not willing to take him to task for it.  That's why things don't change here - Mike Brown keeps selling a crap burger of a product and fans like you keep slurping it up.

So things don't change because I'm a fan of a football team and do believe in the progress I'm seeing.  So if I change my mind and say he needs to go, we'll start winning?   That, sir, is garbage. 

But yep, I don't plan on posting what I did often, as I know this is a message board where people just want to fly off the handle with hatred and vent for mental health, just trying to talk some of ya'll off this ledge you've created for yourselves.  It ain't as bad as ya'll are making it to be.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-16-2020, 01:45 PM)jj22 Wrote: We aren't beating Baltimore or Pittsburg without Marvin and Flacco being around (we could never beat Pittsburg anyway). Cleveland isn't a given anymore, in fact it's safe to say with their record over us the last 3 years, it hasn't been much of a "rivalry"...

Without winning games in the North, there's not much success to be had in the basement of the division. 

Do you see this changing in the next decade? Remember, we couldn't beat Pittsburg with their backup qb's starting. Lamar will be around for the next decade. When do you see this rise coming? 

I don't see it. It's looking like the pre Marvin dark era is upon us. 

Ben is 38 years old, and won’t be around forever. As far as their backups beating us, that was against Ryan Finley and Dalton. Lamar has not looked good this season. Whether that’s just him having a down year, or teams figuring him out remains to be seen. We were less than a minute away from beating Cleveland, and if we get even slightly better defense against them we will. Burrow is already better than Mayfield. This division could look very different in a couple years. Right now I’d say the one area we’re the furthest behind in is coaching. Seems like a good place to start to me...

[MickMack]

(11-16-2020, 02:01 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: So things don't change because I'm a fan of a football team and do believe in the progress I'm seeing.  So if I change my mind and say he needs to go, we'll start winning?   That, sir, is garbage. 

But yep, I don't plan on posting what I did often, as I know this is a message board where people just want to fly off the handle with hatred and vent for mental health, just trying to talk some of ya'll off this ledge you've created for yourselves.  It ain't as bad as ya'll are making it to be.  

It is every bit as bad as people are making it out to be.  It's four wins in two years.  It's a coach that's in over his head.  It's the veteran leaders of this team quitting.  It's assistants that don't belong on a legitimate NFL coaching roster.  It's a generational talent at risk of fizzling out.  And you say that's a-okay.  You're out here waving your pom-poms at a .180 winning percentage.  Yes.  You are part of the problem.

[SuperBowlBound!]

(11-16-2020, 02:14 PM)MickMack Wrote: It is every bit as bad as people are making it out to be.  It's four wins in two years.  It's a coach that's in over his head.  It's the veteran leaders of this team quitting.  It's assistants that don't belong on a legitimate NFL coaching roster.  It's a generational talent at risk of fizzling out.  And you say that's a-okay.  You're out here waving your pom-poms at a .180 winning percentage.  Yes.  You are part of the problem.

It is Joe Burrows first year. As much as everyone loves him and thinks he is a HOF QB he has had his issues as well. The line gave him pretty good protection and he self admittedly was off yesterday. He did not play that good. We are not wasting a generational talent in the first half of his first season. Give Zak and the front office another year and if we don't see a .500 team next year then make changes until then step away from the ledge and let the process happen.

[RiverRat13]

Either Zac or Duke has to go. If you believe Zac is getting the most out of a terrible roster, then logic states that you can't keep Duke. If you think the roster is better than the record, then you can't keep Zac.

The absolute worst thing the Bengals could do is "one more year" of the status quo. They either have to fully commit to Taylor or clean house. And by fully commit, I mean fire Duke and give Zac say on who runs the player personnel department. Extend his contract by a year or two so that if he wants to fire Lou and Turner (he should), potential replacements know there is job security. Who is going to take the DC job if they are worried Zac and his staff will be gone in a year anyway? That's just not realistic. So go all in on Zac or cut bait. The job is infinitely more attractive than two years ago because the quarterback is in place, so there shouldn't be the need to take a chance on a guy who isn't ready yet again.

Personally, I'd jettison both Duke and Zac. But we know that's not going to happen.

[wildcatnku24]

(11-16-2020, 03:19 PM)RiverRat13 Wrote: Either Zac or Duke has to go.  If you believe Zac is getting the most out of a terrible roster, then logic states that you can't keep Duke.  If you think the roster is better than the record, then you can't keep Zac.

The absolute worst thing the Bengals could do is "one more year" of the status quo.  They either have to fully commit to Taylor or clean house.  And by fully commit, I mean fire Duke and give Zac say on who runs the player personnel department.  Extend his contract by a year or two so that if he wants to fire Lou and Turner (he should), potential replacements know there is job security.  Who is going to take the DC job if they are worried Zac and his staff will be gone in a year anyway?  That's just not realistic.  So go all in on Zac or cut bait.  The job is infinitely more attractive than two years ago because the quarterback is in place, so there shouldn't be the need to take a chance on a guy who isn't ready yet again.

Personally, I'd jettison both Duke and Zac.  But we know that's not going to happen.

While I understand what you're saying here, I want to caution thinking like the Cleveland Browns.  I.E. getting rid of people and not valuing continuity.  Duke and Zac have had two solid drafts together.  I'd even argue this most recent draft has been one of the most solid drafts we've ever had as far as production.  I think both get the credit and the blame at the same time.

[wildcatnku24]

(11-16-2020, 02:53 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: It is Joe Burrows first year. As much as everyone loves him and thinks he is a HOF QB he has had his issues as well. The line gave him pretty good protection and he self admittedly was off yesterday. He did not play that good. We are not wasting a generational talent in the first half of his first season. Give Zak and the front office another year and if we don't see a .500 team next year then make changes until then step away from the ledge and let the process happen.

Per MickMack, that makes you part of the problem and the reason for their record.  Your thoughts apparently influence the players, didn't you know?!

[MickMack]

(11-16-2020, 02:53 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: It is Joe Burrows first year. As much as everyone loves him and thinks he is a HOF QB he has had his issues as well. The line gave him pretty good protection and he self admittedly was off yesterday. He did not play that good. We are not wasting a generational talent in the first half of his first season. Give Zak and the front office another year and if we don't see a .500 team next year then make changes until then step away from the ledge and let the process happen.

What is the process exactly?  Can you articulate it?  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-16-2020, 05:18 PM)MickMack Wrote: What is the process exactly?  Can you articulate it?  

Hire your buddies and hope for the best?

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(11-16-2020, 12:39 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: The drafts have been good and i think talent wise we are getting better. I think we could do a lot better as far as a head coach that can out coach the opposition.

The drafts have not been good. 2020 was a good draft; but 2019 was not.

If you want to be an optimist the drafts are getting better.

(11-16-2020, 03:19 PM)RiverRat13 Wrote: Either Zac or Duke has to go. If you believe Zac is getting the most out of a terrible roster, then logic states that you can't keep Duke. If you think the roster is better than the record, then you can't keep Zac.

The absolute worst thing the Bengals could do is "one more year" of the status quo. They either have to fully commit to Taylor or clean house. And by fully commit, I mean fire Duke and give Zac say on who runs the player personnel department. Extend his contract by a year or two so that if he wants to fire Lou and Turner (he should), potential replacements know there is job security. Who is going to take the DC job if they are worried Zac and his staff will be gone in a year anyway? That's just not realistic. So go all in on Zac or cut bait. The job is infinitely more attractive than two years ago because the quarterback is in place, so there shouldn't be the need to take a chance on a guy who isn't ready yet again.

Personally, I'd jettison both Duke and Zac. But we know that's not going to happen.

What's the point in ditching Zac if you're keeping the person who appointed him?

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Haven't you seen enough?  Come on!  We've been watching and or playing football since we were little kids and we know the difference between laxative and lunch.  Watch the Bengals' offense then watch the Chiefs.  Watch the Bengals' defense then watch the Steelers.  Ladies and gentlemen, we are not even in the same solar system as the best teams in the league and, even worse, we're getting worse.  I do not see improvement over 2019 and my prediction of 4-12, now 4-11-1 due to the tie, is looking rather optimistic. 

The culture changed -- and it stinks.  It stinks on ice.  A 4-20-1 record speaks for itself; in terms of percentage it's 0.180.  That's a batting average a pitcher has.  That means you're on track to win less than three games per year. 

[*ochocincos*]

(11-16-2020, 01:00 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: 2018 we did not have a 29 year old AJ Green either. How much did that hurt the 2018 team? He did not play 1 game.

Depends...if he played like he's playing this year, it really wouldn't have hurt the team more than him just not playing.

[RiverRat13]

Yeah, the 2019 draft was not good. The Bengals got a solid tackle in the first, but everyone else from that draft who is contributing would not be seeing the field on a good team.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(11-16-2020, 05:38 PM)RiverRat13 Wrote: Yeah, the 2019 draft was not good.  The Bengals got a solid tackle in the first, but everyone else from that draft who is contributing would not be seeing the field on a good team.

Exactly.  Thank you!

[RiverRat13]

(11-16-2020, 05:25 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: The drafts have not been good. 2020 was a good draft; but 2019 was not.

If you want to be an optimist the drafts are getting better.


What's the point in ditching Zac if you're keeping the person who appointed him?

I hear Duke is a real cut-up at the Blackburn family barbeques.  Can't put a price on that.

[Tlawsonmariat82]

What alot of people fail to realize is that zac Taylor doesn't have a successful history to use the change the culture mantra..Marvin used it in 2003 but the difference was that he had notable success to look back on with zac he dosen't have that..

It's been a popular notion on these boards lately that zac has them competing and that it's no quit in the team,Marvin teams never quit either and was still competitive down the stretch in 2018..

I was never a fan of this hire I was against it because the last thing we needed with the roster we had was an inexperienced hc..

[SuperBowlBound!]

(11-16-2020, 06:12 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: What a lot of people fail to realize is that Zac Taylor doesn't have a successful history to use the change the culture mantra..Marvin used it in 2003 but the difference was that he had notable success to look back on with zac he dosen't have that..

It's been a popular notion on these boards lately that zac has them competing and that it's no quit in the team,Marvin teams never quit either and was still competitive down the stretch in 2018..

I was never a fan of this hire I was against it because the last thing we needed with the roster we had was an inexperienced hc..

Marvins team quit on him the last 3 years he was coaching. 6-9-1, 7-9 & 6-10 and that is with his buddies Kirkpatrick, AJ Green, Dunlap and Atkins trying their hardest. Zak has taken over a team that actually has the team captains quitting on their team. This is the culture he his trying to change. Very hard to do when you have to replace the captains. Did anyone really think this would take a year and a half.  We are much closer than people realize but we are still a year away. It would also help to have a preseason next year.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(11-16-2020, 02:14 PM)MickMack Wrote: It is every bit as bad as people are making it out to be.  It's four wins in two years.  It's a coach that's in over his head.  It's the veteran leaders of this team quitting.  It's assistants that don't belong on a legitimate NFL coaching roster.  It's a generational talent at risk of fizzling out.  And you say that's a-okay.  You're out here waving your pom-poms at a .180 winning percentage.  Yes.  You are part of the problem.

Of course it's fair to criticize ZT, but it's hyperbole like this that just makes me wonder why I keep coming to this board, especially after a loss. 

Dunlap was the only vet who quit - the notion that it was a pervasive locker room problem was always nonsense. Nine games into his career - that's *9 games* - and you already have Burrow fizzling out. And now people on this board are attacking other board members and actually suggesting they as fans are the ones causing the problem (preposterous).