Sewell or trade with QB needy teams?

[Jpoore]

(11-24-2020, 08:16 PM)pulses Wrote: After that last game Fields played against IU's pressure defense and all of the TO's he can't carry Burrow's jock. Hell the IU QB has as much upside as Fields. Jpoore sometimes it's better to not say anything then to open your mouth and make yourself look worse than you already are! But you seem to do that quite a bit of the time!

Fields had by far his worst game as a pro no doubt.they confused him with that trap dog blitz with the safety. But he’s still a top qb prospect and the #2 pick, possibly even #1.

(11-24-2020, 08:39 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: As far as trading back and still going OL? I absolutely guarantee that would result in Sewell going on to a HoF career somewhere else, and us taking some absolute scrub like Billy Price. Learn from your mistakes (losing out on Ragnow) and don’t overthink it.

I wouldn’t call the ragnow thing a mistake.. it happens. But who said we would have to take a scrub. There is 5 stud lineman in this class. If u give me a chance at getting 1 potential hall of famer on the line or 2 stud potential yearly all pros? Take the all pros. The window is now.

(11-24-2020, 08:43 PM)Benton Wrote: You have to start somewhere.

Jonah is OK at LT. He might end up great there in a few years. Sewell and Jonah give us a chance to have solid starting tackles for several years to come. Which frees us up to move people already on the roster, try for another starter later in the draft or sign a FA. Take Sewell, grab a FA or late pick, move around some existing guys and when Joe returns next fall, he's behind a completely different line.

The window is now though. With burrow on rookie deal. If some team offers 3 top 50 picks? I’m taking that all day. I’d rather have alex leatherwood and Wyatt Davis than penei Sewell.

[J24]

(11-24-2020, 01:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Michael Jordan was the first true freshman offensive lineman to start the first game of the season at OSU since Orlando Pace.


If we didn't have a promising your OT already on this team PS would be a no-brainer, but as is. I think draft capital can be more valuable to this team.

Going by draft value and current seeding. Our #3 could be traded to Miami for their 9 and 17. They badly need a young OT to protect their franchise QB.
 
We could easily come out of the first with something like Kyle Pitts and Wyatt Davis/Alex Leatherman and then we’d still have an early 2nd.

I’m also sure the SD would give up quite a bit to unite Herbert with Sewell

Wouldn't it be more like Miami two 2nd Rd picks in 2021 and a 2022 2nd RD pick. Similar to what the Colts got from  the Jets in 18 for moving up to 3.

(11-24-2020, 04:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We could still get a 1st rd OT and more

Trusting OG to jordan or Redmond is also vintage Bengals

I've seen too many "best prospects to come out in years"

Speaking of best prospect in years; have you seen the TE from UofF? Hell you give me the choice of him or JaMarr Chase I'm taking Pitts regardless of draft spot. Somebody like that could damn sure help Joe.

If it's Sewell I'll be very pleased, but I think we could use more picks.

Yep if a team gives you a great deal then you have to look at it. Also a lot depends on what happens in free agency. If we sign Lawson and Jackson then the defense doesn't need as much and drafting Sewell is the best move. If we lose both of those guys along with Dunlap and presumably Atkins getting released then we have a lot to replace on defense.

[*bfine32*]

(11-25-2020, 12:37 AM)J24 Wrote: Wouldn't it be more like Miami two 2nd Rd picks in 2021 and a 2022 2nd RD pick. Similar to what the Colts got from  the Jets in 18 for moving up to 3.

Yep if a team gives you a great deal then you have to look at it. Also a lot depends on what happens in free agency. If we sign Lawson and Jackson then the defense doesn't need as much and drafting Sewell is the best move. If we lose both of those guys along with Dunlap and presumably Atkins getting released then we have a lot to replace on defense.

Actually the Jets gave up the 6th pick in the first round along with all that you mentioned and they only moved up 3 spots.

Pretty much all I'm saying. I've seen too many generational players. 

[J24]

(11-25-2020, 12:43 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Actually the Jets gave up the 6th pick in the first round along with all that you mentioned and they only moved up 3 spots.

Pretty much all I'm saying. I've seen too many generational players. 

I agree with with you on that. Plus this team has a lot of needs so more picks the better especially in the top 100. A lot of it depends on who's the coach and what we do in free agency.

[ah5]

(11-24-2020, 08:27 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Exactly. Can we please stop settling for mediocrity? Hart is not the long term answer at RT. This pick is as easy as last year’s was.

Totally agreed. Only reason I would turn it down is for 3 first rounders then some.

Sent from my BV9600 using Tapatalk

[Benton]

(11-25-2020, 12:34 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Fields had by far his worst game as a pro no doubt.they confused him with that trap dog blitz with the safety. But he’s still a top qb prospect and the #2 pick, possibly even #1.
I wouldn’t call the ragnow thing a mistake.. it happens. But who said we would have to take a scrub. There is 5 stud lineman in this class. If u give me a chance at getting 1 potential hall of famer on the line or 2 stud potential yearly all pros? Take the all pros. The window is now.
The window is now though. With burrow on rookie deal. If some team offers 3 top 50 picks? I’m taking that all day. I’d rather have alex leatherwood and Wyatt Davis than penei Sewell.

More picks don't always equate to better picks. 

No player is perfect. But sewell, like joe, looks like he fits a huge team need, as opposed to hoping he does. This is a chance to take a legitimate tackle, not a 'he would've been top five talent but he slid because of injury.'

[Hammerstripes]

(11-25-2020, 12:29 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Greg Robinson

We've got a young LT that is doing just fine.

Teams like the Bengals shouldn't be focusing on improving their good parts.

LOL.  Come on, he wasn't considered a generational talent.  The last ones that I can think of that were talked about in the same regard as Sewell:

Walter Jones
Orlando Pace
Jonathan Ogden
Joe Thomas
Chris Samuels

Those were guys that had zero doubts that they were franchise type guys.

[t3r3e3]

(11-24-2020, 12:46 AM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote: I hate to think this way but I am compelled to. What if Sewell is a Bengal and he is the second coming of Anthony Munoz (yeah, it's kinda silly to think that). How much is he going to cost 4 years from now. Didn't the Packers LT just sign for something like $27 million a year or something close? How do you pay Burrow and Sewell and still field a team?

You keep trotting out garbage in front of Burrow and you don’t have to pay him, because he took the Andrew Luck route...

[Whatever]

Personally, the OL needs to be fixed before the draft.

I have absolutely no issue taking Sewell if he makes it to us. However, there's no guarantee he makes it to us. The Jags may not be in love with Fields. They could draft Sewell and try to get one of the other QB's with their 2nd. Or they trade down.

As good of a prospect as he is, most rookie OL struggle. While the expectation is he will be a franchise cornerstone, the reality is that if he even grades low-mid 60's per PFF, he's ahead of the curve. Not only do you have to hope he makes it to us, you also have to gamble that he will beat the odds with his play as a rookie.

[*bfine32*]

(11-25-2020, 09:42 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: LOL.  Come on, he wasn't considered a generational talent.  The last ones that I can think of that were talked about in the same regard as Sewell:

Walter Jones
Orlando Pace
Jonathan Ogden
Joe Thomas
Chris Samuels

Those were guys that had zero doubts that they were franchise type guys.

I'll take you at your word that you do not remember the hype surrounding Greg Robinson, but remember draft pundits stating Ogden and Pace were elite in their mid 90s write ups.

Seems like you just kinda picked some really good old timers. Hell I remember the hype surrounding Michael Orr, Luke Joeckel, Jason Smith,  and Robert Gallery, but I didn't just pick some high picks that washed out. The most hyped OT I can recall in my lifetime was Tony Manderich.

No OT has gone higher than Robinson in the draft since he was drafted.

So I guess we can all agree with: No OT has received this much praise coming out of college since Greg Robinson

[Jpoore]

(11-25-2020, 03:25 AM)Benton Wrote: More picks don't always equate to better picks. 

No player is perfect. But sewell, like joe, looks like he fits a huge team need, as opposed to hoping he does. This is a chance to take a legitimate tackle, not a 'he would've been top five talent but he slid because of injury.'

We do that our oline is still the worst oline in the nfl.

[samhain]

If they don't trade, then it has to be Sewell. If he's as allegedly can't miss as advertised, you just take him. This team is still suffering for not getting production from first rounders like Ross and Price. Take the closest thing to a sure thing if there's one there. I'd say Jamar Chase fits this strategy, too. Not many teams are atrociously shitty enough to have a shot at this caliber of pick, so strike while the iron is hot.

I agree that we need defense, but I don't see a slam dunk DB or DL worth spending a 3rd on. This isn't the year for that.

The best scenario would be the Bengals sucking so royally bad that Jacksonville or the Jets somehow win more games that them, then get a stupid draft pick return in trade. I'd want a second and a third on top of that team's first. You could do some real roster fortification with that kind of capital.

[PikesPeakUC]

I would prefer Sewell. If he goes before us, trade back.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-22-2020, 06:04 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: This team is likely going to finish 2-13-1 after letting Burrow get mangled behind a bottom 3 line.  As it stands, that will likely have them picking somewhere between 2-4.  So, the million dollar question is:  

1:  Target the best tackle or

2:  Try to acquire as many picks as possible?  We know the team lacks trench talent.  Other teams will be in the hunt for Fields and the other 1st round possible QB’s.

The Bengals have two solid starting tackles in WIlliams and Hart.  They also have two capable backup tackles in Adeniji and Johnson.  People will slam that and say "they suck" or that Sewell is the next Munoz, but that is my honest assessment.  Before everyone falls to in love with Sewell, he isn't seeing a murderers row of pass rushers in the awful Pac 12.

I think if you slide just a couple picks and get an additional 2nd rounder, but are still able to get Ja'marr Chase, then you do it.  I want Burrow surrounded with weapons and I want him protected.  This strategy is hingent upon them signing Joe Thuney to play RG.  He should be the #1 FA target.  Then, either Spain, Finney, or XSF can take the other guard spot.  

An additional third rounder might not sound like a lot, but it would be a top 75 pick based on where I would project them sliding.  

Of course, you need someone to want to trade, and have to be prepared for the scenario where there are no trade offers.  I would still take Chase at #3.  And I am not the least bit concerned that he took this season to prepare for the draft.  He will be fresh and is a massive talent.  Better than Green coming out of college.  Faster, with amazing routes and hands.  

That would be my hope. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-26-2020, 11:05 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The Bengals have two solid starting tackles in WIlliams and Hart.  They also have two capable backup tackles in Adeniji and Johnson.  People will slam that and say "they suck" or that Sewell is the next Munoz, but that is my honest assessment.  Before everyone falls to in love with Sewell, he isn't seeing a murderers row of pass rushers in the awful Pac 12.

I think if you slide just a couple picks and get an additional 2nd rounder, but are still able to get Ja'marr Chase, then you do it.  I want Burrow surrounded with weapons and I want him protected.  This strategy is hingent upon them signing Joe Thuney to play RG.  He should be the #1 FA target.  Then, either Spain, Finney, or XSF can take the other guard spot.  

An additional third rounder might not sound like a lot, but it would be a top 75 pick based on where I would project them sliding.  

Of course, you need someone to want to trade, and have to be prepared for the scenario where there are no trade offers.  I would still take Chase at #3.  And I am not the least bit concerned that he took this season to prepare for the draft.  He will be fresh and is a massive talent.  Better than Green coming out of college.  Faster, with amazing routes and hands.  

That would be my hope. 

I’d love to have Chase if JAX takes Sewell, but man, leaving Sewell on the board for a WR? That would be a classic Mike Brown type move. I’d want someone tarred and feathered on the 50 yard line of PBS if that happened.

Also, since you never replied to the post in JN where I linked Sewell’s game against Auburn, I’ll bring it up again here (Killer Goose posted it earlier in this thread). Sewell went against one of the top DL’s in the country that game (including #7 pick Derrick Brown and #47 pick Marlon Davidson) so there’s tape out there vs high end competition from other power 5 conferences that shows how good he is.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-26-2020, 11:31 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’d love to have Chase if JAX takes Sewell, but man, leaving Sewell on the board for a WR? That would be a classic Mike Brown type move. I’d want someone tarred and feathered on the 50 yard line of PBS if that happened.

Also, since you never replied to the post in JN where I linked Sewell’s game against Auburn, I’ll bring it up again here (Killer Goose posted it earlier in this thread). Sewell went against one of the top DL’s in the country that game (including #7 pick Derrick Brown and #47 pick Marlon Davidson) so there’s tape out there vs high end competition from other power 5 conferences that shows how good he is.

I will have to look at it, but it doesn't change the fact that he is a tackle, and I will have to see how many of those snaps were against Derrick Brown, giving that he is a defensive tackle and wouldn't typically be lining up against the LT. 

What if the Lions took Levi Brown, a very highly rated OT in 2007 instead of Calvin Johnson?  You can play that both ways...

Here is the PFF ranking from last year's #4 overall pick, an OT.  

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/andrew-thomas/59701.  Not saying the guy is a bust, but a huge upside, etc, coming out and he has struggled. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-26-2020, 12:27 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I will have to look at it, but it doesn't change the fact that he is a tackle, and I will have to see how many of those snaps were against Derrick Brown, giving that he is a defensive tackle and wouldn't typically be lining up against the LT. 

What if the Lions took Levi Brown, a very highly rated OT in 2007 instead of Calvin Johnson?  You can play that both ways...

Not the best example. They pretty much wasted Megatron’s career up there. Just like they did Barry Sanders.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-26-2020, 12:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not the best example. They pretty much wasted Megatron’s career up there. Just like they did Barry Sanders.

Are you kidding?  He was a transformative, dominant player?  That is like saying the Bengals shouldn't have taken AJ Green.  Say what you will now, but Green was a stud for many years. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-26-2020, 12:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not the best example. They pretty much wasted Megatron’s career up there. Just like they did Barry Sanders.

Some tackle examples from last year:

59.2 Willis #10 overall

73.9 Bechton #11 overall
77.9 Wirfs, #13 overall
49.7 Jackson #18 overall
DNP Wilson  #29 overall (a guy a lot of us wanted)

Bobby Hart 2020 PFF:  70.0

Our problem is not at tackle, it is at guard, and they should try to sign Joe Thuney as a FA and figure out who is best at LG between Spain, XSF, and Finney.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-26-2020, 12:31 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Are you kidding?  He was a transformative, dominant player?  That is like saying the Bengals shouldn't have taken AJ Green.  Say what you will now, but Green was a stud for many years. 

I love AJ, but they shouldn’t have taken him. They should have taken Julio.

Or JJ Watt...