Argument for and against Sewell.

[Essex Johnson]

(11-29-2020, 02:42 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote:  It truly is. Just like last year why pass on what is your biggest need (Is this debatable ?) for lower picks. Burrow was a easy choice last year & Sewell would be the easy one this year. Don't screw it up.

But the Bengals have been criticized for not looking at big picture and at times trading back to get more picks and improve the team.. For example we pick Burrow but still have a terrible year.. maybe we could have been better off trading the pick for more picks and maybe getting Carr in a trade.  As a whole you normally don;t trade out of picking a QB but you do for a tackle when you have many other needs and Oline is deep.. look at the offers and if bounty is good.. trade back

[BenZoo2]

(11-29-2020, 07:28 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: they are not happy when you prove them wrong....

Not sure what you’re trying to say. I asked him to provide a source. He did. Plenty of time for his rankings to change so.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[*bfine32*]

(11-29-2020, 07:28 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: they are not happy when you prove them wrong....

One thing I've learned around here is when you say "Show me one" chances are one will be found.

WTS, I don't think the Jeremiah rating changes the assertion that Sewell is the best OT prospect coming out this year. 

I'm just of the opinion that we could use a little more than the best OT prospect in this draft.

Even with a mediocre game from Jonah today; I watch that game today and say "Damn we need some pass rush". 

[Essex Johnson]

(11-29-2020, 07:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: One thing I've learned around here is when you say "Show me one" chances are one will be found.

WTS, I don't think the Jeremiah rating changes the assertion that Sewell is the best OT prospect coming out this year. 

I'm just of the opinion that we could use a little more than the best OT prospect in this draft.

Even with a mediocre game from Jonah today; I watch that game today and say "Damn we need some pass rush". 

I agree this is a better draft for depth in OL is we can get say 5 picks in first 3 rounds trading back..I'm thinking g about it.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-29-2020, 06:54 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote:  So what you're saying is pick your guy and if he doesn't work out bengals fault..that makes a lot of sense.  Right now I would take Higgins over most 1st round receivers so have bengals sdo with that pick in the 2nd round.

I didn't say that anywhere. I said take the surest bet (knowing the Bengals track record--i don't trust them taking even 2 other guys that "could" be good). If he doesn't pan out, then it's either crappy coaching that couldn't teach him technique that he needed to get better or, he simply wasn't going to be good enough because of him. 

You have an unrealistic expectation of the Bengals picking a guy later in the draft that could be good and i want them to take the guy that gives them less chance of screwing the pick up. 

Re: Higgins; no one ever said they missed on every pick. They've just missed badly on 1st round guys that weren't top 5ish.

Billy Price
John Ross
WJIII (average)
Ogbuehi
Dennard
Kirkpatrick (average)

Quantity isn't always better than quality, especially when it's the Bengals picking. 

[Jpoore]

(11-29-2020, 08:40 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: That’s like finding one person who ranks Fields ahead of Lawrence. The vast majority has Sewell as the best OL prospect in the draft.

Yes including me... but the smart play is still trading back. He’s not a consensus ol1, and ur banking the whole future on him being the best tackle in the game.

(11-29-2020, 02:38 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: I’ll look for the article. And any comments he made regarding Sewell opting out this year. Let’s see if his rankings change prior to the draft


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah I found it on Twitter.

(11-29-2020, 08:34 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I didn't say that anywhere. I said take the surest bet (knowing the Bengals track record--i don't trust them taking even 2 other guys that "could" be good). If he doesn't pan out, then it's either crappy coaching that couldn't teach him technique that he needed to get better or, he simply wasn't going to be good enough because of him. 

You have an unrealistic expectation of the Bengals picking a guy later in the draft that could be good and i want them to take the guy that gives them less chance of screwing the pick up. 

Re: Higgins; no one ever said they missed on every pick. They've just missed badly on 1st round guys that weren't top 5ish.

Billy Price
John Ross
WJIII (average)
Ogbuehi
Dennard
Kirkpatrick (average)

Quantity isn't always better than quality, especially when it's the Bengals picking. 

Quality isn’t always better but in those drafts the perception was there weren’t very many elite guys. In this class? There is an absolute filthy amount of richer especially at the top. Especially at tackle and guard there is more top end talent this year than last year.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-29-2020, 09:52 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Quality isn’t always better but in those drafts the perception was there weren’t very many elite guys. In this class? There is an absolute filthy amount of richer especially at the top. Especially at tackle and guard there is more top end talent this year than last year.

I ain't buying it. A good percentage of those guy's aren't going to pan out. 

Sewell may not, but there's a much smaller chance that he won't. When you're that dominant and good at your job, it's rarely fools gold. And the kid is only 20. 

How can anyone look at a 20 year old, who's that good, and not know that he's going to turn out to be very good? If he does turn out bad, it would have to be because of some currently unseen circumstance, like he's lazy or not very coachable or something. 

And i'll say it for the millionth time...give the Bengals more picks and all you'll get is more chances for them to **** up. No thanks. Get me the top 5 talent and i'll take my chances. There isn't a damn thing anyone can say that will change my mind about how, if there's a way to screw up, the Bengals will find it. 

[J24]

Arguments against
1.) We already have a franchise LT in Jonah
2.) Burrow can make the Offensive players look better than they appear he can't do that with the defense.
3.) Were looking at loosing our best pass rusher, best Corner, and have an aging 3T. Also we already traded our 2nd best pass rusher. Also the Bengals haven't drafted a defensive player in the first round since 2016.
Argument for
1.) Best Tackle in recent memory

[t3r3e3]

(11-28-2020, 04:36 AM)Jpoore Wrote: He’s not even the unanimous ot1. If some team gives u a haul with the holes we have u take it.

You’re joking, right? It’s Sewell, and everyone else at tackle. The haul to trade out would have to be sizable, and early enough to nab multiple lineman. Given the Bengals propensity to bungle second day picks, and lately, Day 1 picks, I’d take the sure thing. If Mike Clown would hire a legit scouting/player personnel department not staffed by stooges and family members I’d trust the team’s talent evaluation more. As it stands, when they get cute they almost always bungle the pick. Sewell is an absolute stud, and an immediate upgrade over all tackles on the roster, including Jonas. He has to be the pick if they don’t trade it.

[*Synric*]

Spent the last few weeks studying OL for 2021 NFL Draft. Here’s my top 5 so far—
1) Rashawn Slater (Northwestern)
2) Penei Sewell (Oregon)
3) Alijah Vera-Tucker (USC)
4) Christian Darrisaw (Virginia Tech)
5) Teven Jenkins (Oklahoma St)

— Daniel Jeremiah (@MoveTheSticks) November 28, 2020

That puts Alex Leatherwood, Creed Humphrey, and Wyatt Davis as 6th, 7th, and 8th? Penei Sewell at 3 and Wyatt Davis at 35?

Rashwan Slater might and it's a big might be able to play tackle. He has zero length and likely ends up as a solid LG in the NFL.

[t3r3e3]

(11-29-2020, 07:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: One thing I've learned around here is when you say "Show me one" chances are one will be found.

WTS, I don't think the Jeremiah rating changes the assertion that Sewell is the best OT prospect coming out this year. 

I'm just of the opinion that we could use a little more than the best OT prospect in this draft.

Even with a mediocre game from Jonah today; I watch that game today and say "Damn we need some pass rush". 

The NFL is a QB driven league. Franchise QB’s on rookie contracts are the most coveted team contracts out there. It’s easier to assemble a competitive roster with a cheap QB. You have to protect your QB to win. The Bengals need to quit dumpster diving with stooges like Hart, Redmond, Johnson, XSF, etc. and go after quality lineman. Sewell is the obvious choice.

[*bfine32*]

If Tua and Burrow would have sat last year; who would've been our QB?

[*Synric*]

(11-29-2020, 11:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If Tua and Burrow would have sat last year; who would've been our QB?

Justin Herbert.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-29-2020, 11:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If Tua and Burrow would have sat last year; who would've been our QB?

(11-29-2020, 11:24 PM)Synric Wrote: Justin Herbert.

This.

[Jpoore]

(11-29-2020, 09:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I ain't buying it. A good percentage of those guy's aren't going to pan out. 

Sewell may not, but there's a much smaller chance that he won't. When you're that dominant and good at your job, it's rarely fools gold. And the kid is only 20. 

How can anyone look at a 20 year old, who's that good, and not know that he's going to turn out to be very good? If he does turn out bad, it would have to be because of some currently unseen circumstance, like he's lazy or not very coachable or something. 

And i'll say it for the millionth time...give the Bengals more picks and all you'll get is more chances for them to **** up. No thanks. Get me the top 5 talent and i'll take my chances. There isn't a damn thing anyone can say that will change my mind about how, if there's a way to screw up, the Bengals will find it. 

We draft Sewell we end up with 4-5 wins. We trade back we’re a serious playoff contender.

(11-29-2020, 11:12 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: The NFL is a QB driven league. Franchise QB’s on rookie contracts are the most coveted team contracts out there. It’s easier to assemble a competitive roster with a cheap QB. You have to protect your QB to win. The Bengals need to quit dumpster diving with stooges like Hart, Redmond, Johnson, XSF, etc. and go after quality lineman. Sewell is the obvious choice.

No body saying dumpster diving. Getting 4 great players better than 1 elite players

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-30-2020, 05:39 AM)Jpoore Wrote: We draft Sewell we end up with 4-5 wins. We trade back we’re a serious playoff contender.
No body saying dumpster diving. Getting 4 great players better than 1 elite players

You’re assuming we will hit on every single pick that we receive. The odds on that are extremely low. When’s the last time we drafted “4 great players” in one year? 2012 we got Kirkpatrick, Zeitler, Sanu, and Marvin Jones. Good draft, but idk that any of them were “great.”

We haven’t drafted a single Pro Bowler since Tyler Eifert in 2013. Bates will make it this year, but 6 years in between is a really long time. We could pass on Sewell, and then end up with another 2015 type draft. Sorry, but if Sewell goes somewhere else and lives up to his potential, and we end up with our best players from from an entire draft class being guys like Uzomah and Kroft I’d be pretty upset.

If we take Sewell and he doesn’t work out so be it. At least no one can argue with the choice.

[*Synric*]

I think the point is moot since there is really only 1 team with the draft capital to move up and the Dolphins took a a tackle in the first and one in the second round last year. They will likely go a different route and let young guys try to develop in year 2.

I suppose the Cowboys could move up 1 spot for a 3rd but dont see that happening either.

Trade back is always a popular option but unless a team is sitting on a franchise QB with their pick it rarely happens inside the top 5.

[Whatever]

(11-30-2020, 10:08 AM)Synric Wrote: I think the point is moot since there is really only 1 team with the draft capital to move up and the Dolphins took a a tackle in the first and one in the second round last year. They will likely go a different route and let young guys try to develop in year 2.

I suppose the Cowboys could move up 1 spot for a 3rd but dont see that happening either.

Trade back is always a popular option but unless a team is sitting on a franchise QB with their pick it rarely happens inside the top 5.

We"ll have to see how the final draft order shakes out, but currently, there aren't a lot of realistic scenarios for a trade down.  If the Cowboys don't resign Dak, the Eagles or WFT may try to jump them for Fields or the BYU kid, but that's about it.  With the cap going down, I don't see a lot of teams being willing to move a bunch of draft picks for a position player.

[t3r3e3]

(11-30-2020, 05:39 AM)Jpoore Wrote: We draft Sewell we end up with 4-5 wins. We trade back we’re a serious playoff contender.
No body saying dumpster diving. Getting 4 great players better than 1 elite players

Your strategy implies a competent front office and scouting department that does not get cute with those picks. I’d counter with Cedric Ogbuehi, Billy Price, John Ross, Jake Fisher, Drew Sample, etc. This team does well with obvious picks, and not so well when they have to think.

I’d also argue that in this division, calling the Bengals a serious playoff threat under your scenario is a bit optimistic. Burrow will likely miss a few games at minimum next year. Thinley and Brandon Allen aren’t winning games.

[*bfine32*]

(11-29-2020, 11:24 PM)Synric Wrote: Justin Herbert.

(11-29-2020, 11:45 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: This.

So you guys are saying we'd go with the one who played, instead of the higher rated prospect?

We agree.