Sometimes Rooting Against Your Team Is Really Rooting For Them

[Murdock2420]

(11-29-2020, 10:27 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I've been a Bengals fan for 35 years, and have never rooted for them to lose, not even in during the 90's. However, I will go on record as saying that right now, for the first time in my life, I am actively rooting for them to lose all their remaining games. However, the reason I'm rooting for that is because I'm a Bengals fan and because I think it will potentially be more beneficial in the long run...not because I enjoy seeing them lose. That sucks, even when things are bad...and they're pretty damn bad right now.

Losing out guarantees Sewell. This team desperately needs him. This line desperately needs him. Joe Burrow desperately needs him. Being able to land Sewell makes rebuilding the line and trying to ensure Burrow's safety a much easier task. 

Also, while there's a very slim chance that the front office will replace Zac after the season, losing out is probably the only realistic way that it's even possible of happening. I think Zac is simply over his head as a head coach, and keeping him around is just wasting time. 

If losing out results in Sewell and a more qualified head coach...then it's worth it, IMO. While losing always sucks, how does winning a game or 2 at this point help this team at all? It could very well cost them Sewell and all but guarantee that hardly anything changes.

You can say that I'm not a Bengals fan because I'm wanting them to lose out, but the truth is, the only reason I'm want that to happen is because I'm a Bengals fan and I think it provides the best chance to (hopefully) turn things around sooner than later.

I understand people who can't root for the Bengals to lose in any situation. I've was that way for 34 and 10 games, but I've been all aboard the 'lose out' train since last week. So, if anyone feels like I'm not a 'real fan' after 35 years of being a diehard, and hopefully many more years to come...feel free to tell me why I'm not being a 'real fan' in hoping for losses in these final games.

I respect you and I respect your opinion.

Two things I will still say over and over about losing out. 

Sewell is not a sure thing. He's a great college tackle, so was Jonah Williams, so were many other draft picks taken in the top 5 of a draft that have never panned out. Winning will attract more free agents, and that is what is going to fix this team more then a top 3 pick.

Secondly, this picture... look at this picture



That is the future in Tyler Boyd. That is a guy that is sick and tired of losing. I want that guy, and Gio and Tee and Bates and the other guys that are worth keeping to start feeling wins and to not have that look on their face.

I can not, and I will not cheer against this team and hope for losses. Losing out gets Sewell, great you gain one tackle at the costs of demoralizing Boyd, Bates, Higgins... yeah... not a trade I'm willing to make.

[Hoofhearted]

(11-29-2020, 10:27 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I've been a Bengals fan for 35 years, and have never rooted for them to lose, not even in during the 90's. However, I will go on record as saying that right now, for the first time in my life, I am actively rooting for them to lose all their remaining games. However, the reason I'm rooting for that is because I'm a Bengals fan and because I think it will potentially be more beneficial in the long run...not because I enjoy seeing them lose. That sucks, even when things are bad...and they're pretty damn bad right now.

Losing out guarantees Sewell. This team desperately needs him. This line desperately needs him. Joe Burrow desperately needs him. Being able to land Sewell makes rebuilding the line and trying to ensure Burrow's safety a much easier task. 

Also, while there's a very slim chance that the front office will replace Zac after the season, losing out is probably the only realistic way that it's even possible of happening. I think Zac is simply over his head as a head coach, and keeping him around is just wasting time. 

If losing out results in Sewell and a more qualified head coach...then it's worth it, IMO. While losing always sucks, how does winning a game or 2 at this point help this team at all? It could very well cost them Sewell and all but guarantee that hardly anything changes.

You can say that I'm not a Bengals fan because I'm wanting them to lose out, but the truth is, the only reason I'm want that to happen is because I'm a Bengals fan and I think it provides the best chance to (hopefully) turn things around sooner than later.

I understand people who can't root for the Bengals to lose in any situation. I've was that way for 34 and 10 games, but I've been all aboard the 'lose out' train since last week. So, if anyone feels like I'm not a 'real fan' after 35 years of being a diehard, and hopefully many more years to come...feel free to tell me why I'm not being a 'real fan' in hoping for losses in these final games.

Losing out means players lose trust in the coaches, their teammates and the FO. It means they will not study film as much, work out as hard, put in as much effort because losing is easy. Winning is hard. Learning how to win is hard. I am of course not calling you a real fan, I know you are, but the premise behind losing out = helping us get better (by coach or draft pick) is not sound logic. Winning games helps get better. I am the biggest ZT hater on this board, but if he can get them to win a few games and they all buy in, build that culture, build that trust going into next year, that will be so much better for them going forward than losing out does. 

I also think this team needs a vastly better defense (specifically pass rush), guard play and CBs. Why I am firmly in the camp of trading down and acquiring as many pick as possible to address those areas. Our defense let Colt McCoy win the game for them. Colt McCoy. YIKES. We still need to protect burrow, but I think we can do that with much better guard play and running the ball better. Just don't think getting Sewell is the fastest way for us to get better. Addressing the defense (EDGE, CBs, and more CBs) and guards I believe will 

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(11-29-2020, 10:44 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I respect you and I respect your opinion.

Two things I will still say over and over about losing out. 

Sewell is not a sure thing.

I can not, and I will not cheer against this team and hope for wins. Losing out gets Sewell, great you gain one tackle at the costs of demoralizing Boyd, Bates, Higgins... yeah... not a trade I'm willing to make.

Penei Sewell will be coached by Jim Turner. That’s bad news right there.

We went through the same process last season with Joe Burrow. Did he elevate the team? The win-loss record says no. The Bengals are more than one player away from being better. They are about twenty players and a whole new coaching staff away.

[Murdock2420]

(11-29-2020, 10:49 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Penei Sewell will be coached by Jim Turner.  That’s bad news right there.

We went through the same process last season with Joe Burrow.  Did he elevate the team?  The win-loss record says no.  The Bengals are more than one player away from being better.  They are about twenty players and a whole new coaching staff away.

Yup.

First it was, lets lose out and get rid of Marvin.

Here comes Taylor and his New Dey, and everyone was ready to go. This team was going to make some noise.

We sucked, and then it was, lose out and get Burrow, that'll fix everything.

We lose, we get Burrow and where are we now? Once again, let's lose out and get this guy and get this new coach that'll fix it.


The only way to stop being a losing team, is to stop losing. Period. No draft pick, no coach, no front office change, none of it matters more then simply winning games.

Win and you build a winning culture. 

The 90's was always people screaming lose out and get this player, or get this coach fired or.... we spent 10 years losing out and still sucked.

Nope, I will not do that again.

Losing out is a loser mentality. Win games, change the culture, get better O-line guys in free agency, and draft best player available. Every time we have drafted for need, it has been a disaster (Burrow not included).

[Hoofhearted]

(11-29-2020, 10:49 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Penei Sewell will be coached by Jim Turner.  That’s bad news right there.

We went through the same process last season with Joe Burrow.  Did he elevate the team?  The win-loss record says no.  The Bengals are more than one player away from being better.  They are about twenty players and a whole new coaching staff away.

Did you see how they played after he went down and even this week? This is not even a discussion. 

[GodFather]

(11-29-2020, 08:51 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I can't root for them to lose which is why I won't be watching much of these final games. However I do hope they don't win many more for two reasons.

1. Hopefully ZT and the merry band of fools will be gone. 2. Higher draft pick

Big guy, isn’t that essentially rooting for them to,lose if you want that?

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-29-2020, 10:57 PM)GodFather Wrote: Big guy, isn’t that essentially rooting for them to,lose if you want that?

It is but it makes me feel better. 

[GodFather]

(11-29-2020, 09:13 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: If you are routing for them to lose how are you a fan of the team unless you've only been here for the Marvin years?

I survived the 90's and I never wanted them to lose then and still don't want them to lose now.

If anyone is hoping they lose out which would include a loss to pitt, you can seriously **** right off, cause no Bengal fan that is worth a shit would ever want this team to lose to pitt.

I’ve been a fan since the late 70’s with Kenny Anderson.  And if you don’t see the big picture and want this team to succeed then blame it on your parents, I can’t change your genes. 

[GodFather]

(11-29-2020, 09:27 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Sewell becomes the new Burrow if we draft him.

It'll be all... we got Sewell, this is the year we go 9-7 or maybe sneak into the playoffs or... blah blah blah

This team is more then 1 OT prospect away from being good. This team needs help on both lines and the secondary and at TE and at WR plus they need a complete culture change.

I said it in another thread and I'll say it here too, they need to learn to win as a team instead of losing week after week.

I know I'll get the "they've been winners prior to being here thing" but it is a mindset that can change. I was listening to Tim McGee after the game on the radio and he was talking about his time in Cincinnati and how that team came out of the tunnel and expected to win every week. Does anyone really think that this team comes out of the tunnel and thinks, we are going to win? Seriously?? 

I'd rather see them win out, beat a few good teams and have that momentum and confidence and hope it carries over to next season. That confidence in themselves, the players, not the coaches, the confidence in one another that they can win games and they can get it done is far more valuable then a tackle from Oregon.

Cocaine is one hell of a drug....

[Bengalholic]

(11-29-2020, 10:44 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I respect you and I respect your opinion.

Two things I will still say over and over about losing out. 

Sewell is not a sure thing. He's a great college tackle, so was Jonah Williams, so were many other draft picks taken in the top 5 of a draft that have never panned out. Winning will attract more free agents, and that is what is going to fix this team more then a top 3 pick.

Secondly, this picture... look at this picture



That is the future in Tyler Boyd. That is a guy that is sick and tired of losing. I want that guy, and Gio and Tee and Bates and the other guys that are worth keeping to start feeling wins and to not have that look on their face.

I can not, and I will not cheer against this team and hope for losses. Losing out gets Sewell, great you gain one tackle at the costs of demoralizing Boyd, Bates, Higgins... yeah... not a trade I'm willing to make.

Yes, losing sucks and I feel bad for the guys that are busting their asses trying to help this team wins games. The problem is, they have been losing at an alarming rate since mid-2018, and nothing I've seen from Taylor and his staff gives me confidence that they are capable of turning things around or building a winning culture. In fact, I get the opposite feeling. These players deserve better than Taylor and his incompetent staff. The only chance to possibly get a better HC and staff is to lose out and force Mike to see how bad things are, and even then it's not a sure thing. I love guys like Tyler, Bates and others, so I want better for them than Zac and company. 

As for Sewell, the number one thing this franchise needs to do in the offseason is build this o-line to be as good as possible. Taking Sewell is a huge step in that direction, along with going after a top G, even if they have to overpay in FA to get one...and keep working on improving from there. You're right that no prospect is a guarantee, but Sewell is about as close as we've seen in a long time. 

[GodFather]

(11-29-2020, 10:27 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I've been a Bengals fan for 35 years, and have never rooted for them to lose, not even in during the 90's. However, I will go on record as saying that right now, for the first time in my life, I am actively rooting for them to lose all their remaining games. However, the reason I'm rooting for that is because I'm a Bengals fan and because I think it will potentially be more beneficial in the long run...not because I enjoy seeing them lose. That sucks, even when things are bad...and they're pretty damn bad right now.

Losing out guarantees Sewell. This team desperately needs him. This line desperately needs him. Joe Burrow desperately needs him. Being able to land Sewell makes rebuilding the line and trying to ensure Burrow's safety a much easier task. 

Also, while there's a very slim chance that the front office will replace Zac after the season, losing out is probably the only realistic way that it's even possible of happening. I think Zac is simply over his head as a head coach, and keeping him around is just wasting time. 

If losing out results in Sewell and a more qualified head coach...then it's worth it, IMO. While losing always sucks, how does winning a game or 2 at this point help this team at all? It could very well cost them Sewell and all but guarantee that hardly anything changes.

You can say that I'm not a Bengals fan because I'm wanting them to lose out, but the truth is, the only reason I'm want that to happen is because I'm a Bengals fan and I think it provides the best chance to (hopefully) turn things around sooner than later.

I understand people who can't root for the Bengals to lose in any situation. I've was that way for 34 and 10 games, but I've been all aboard the 'lose out' train since last week. So, if anyone feels like I'm not a 'real fan' after 35 years of being a diehard, and hopefully many more years to come...feel free to tell me why I'm not being a 'real fan' in hoping for losses in these final games.

No I’ll tell you get it and are a huge fan. What bandwagon or fake fan would ever choose the Bengals to begin with? We’re the ones who stuck by this team for decades and are just waiting for the moment of something to celebrate and make all those bad moments worthwhile by patiently waiting. 

It will happen....one day. But not with this current setup. 

[Murdock2420]

(11-29-2020, 11:01 PM)GodFather Wrote: I’ve been a fan since the late 70’s with Kenny Anderson.  And if you don’t see the big picture and want this team to succeed then blame it on your parents, I can’t change your genes. 

You must have slept through the 90's...

All everyone said was lose out and get Shula gone or lose out to get the top pick... worked wonders didn't it.

As to the crap about family, way to be a pathetic troll... that is I have no real intelligent come back so I'll take the personal attack method. **** off. I lost my family a little too recently to have some jackass loser on a message board speak done about them.

[*Nately120*]

Ok, I'll root for them to lose and get Sewell, but after that they're going to have to find a way to win that doesn't involve losing 14 games per season. This stuff is getting out of hand.

But really, which good NFL team is good because they lost a whole lot in prior seasons?

[Bengalstripes9]

(11-29-2020, 09:44 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: What makes you believe that?

I say again.... the Brown family is going to do what the Brown family wants to do. Our complaints, the media giving them hell, none of it matters. They are going to do what they want regardless.

If you really believe that the win loss record across these last few games is going to impact Taylor's future here, you really are just fooling yourself.

What wins get you: 

Development of guys who will be a part of this team next year.
More attractive to key FA's that the team might be turning a corner.
A more enjoyable experience to watch.

What you get by losing:
The 3rd pick in the draft. (Oh boy... who cares.)
Sewell might be great, or he might be Ced 2.0 
Most importantly, one tackle doesn't fix the team. I'd gladly give away the third pick to ruin the steelers season, get some wins and show signs of life that makes more FA's consider coming here. What's better, Sewell (who is potential but maybe not that great, see Jonah Williams) or landing a guy like Thurney who has already shown you, he can make a difference in the NFL. Winning matters to free agents...and with our draft history, free agents are who I want to impress not some draft prospect.

Just like getting a new coach increases our odds of winning from 10%, Zac Taylor continuing to lose increases the odds of him getting fired.

[GodFather]

(11-29-2020, 11:11 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: You must have slept through the 90's...

All everyone said was lose out and get Shula gone or lose out to get the top pick... worked wonders didn't it.

As to the crap about family, way to be a pathetic troll... that is I have no real intelligent come back so I'll take the personal attack method. **** off. I lost my family a little too recently to have some jackass loser on a message board speak done about them.

Hmmmm you telling me to F off with your original post set the stage for trolling, go back and read the stage you set. If you dish it out make sure you can take it. 

And I’m speaking to you, so don’t get on your high horse. If you come at someone aggressively be prepared , don’t be a candy ass. 

[Browns Town Bengal]

(11-29-2020, 09:44 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: What makes you believe that?

I say again.... the Brown family is going to do what the Brown family wants to do. Our complaints, the media giving them hell, none of it matters. They are going to do what they want regardless.

If you really believe that the win loss record across these last few games is going to impact Taylor's future here, you really are just fooling yourself.

What wins get you: 

Development of guys who will be a part of this team next year.
More attractive to key FA's that the team might be turning a corner.
A more enjoyable experience to watch.

What you get by losing:
The 3rd pick in the draft. (Oh boy... who cares.)
Sewell might be great, or he might be Ced 2.0 
Most importantly, one tackle doesn't fix the team. I'd gladly give away the third pick to ruin the steelers season, get some wins and show signs of life that makes more FA's consider coming here. What's better, Sewell (who is potential but maybe not that great, see Jonah Williams) or landing a guy like Thurney who has already shown you, he can make a difference in the NFL. Winning matters to free agents...and with our draft history, free agents are who I want to impress not some draft prospect.

I dont think this team has a chance in hell of beating Pitt unless half the steelers are out due to covid.  Or they rest everyone because theyve locked up the number 1 seed.  They lost 36-10 with burrow, imagine how bad it will be with (insert qb name here) playing.  

[Bengalholic]

(11-29-2020, 10:47 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Losing out means players lose trust in the coaches, their teammates and the FO. It means they will not study film as much, work out as hard, put in as much effort because losing is easy. Winning is hard. Learning how to win is hard. I am of course not calling you a real fan, I know you are, but the premise behind losing out = helping us get better (by coach or draft pick) is not sound logic. Winning games helps get better. I am the biggest ZT hater on this board, but if he can get them to win a few games and they all buy in, build that culture, build that trust going into next year, that will be so much better for them going forward than losing out does. 

I also think this team needs a vastly better defense (specifically pass rush), guard play and CBs. Why I am firmly in the camp of trading down and acquiring as many pick as possible to address those areas. Our defense let Colt McCoy win the game for them. Colt McCoy. YIKES. We still need to protect burrow, but I think we can do that with much better guard play and running the ball better. Just don't think getting Sewell is the fastest way for us to get better. Addressing the defense (EDGE, CBs, and more CBs) and guards I believe will 

If Zac's not head coach material, which IMO he's not, then where exactly does the 'winning culture' come from? Does it come from sticking with a terrible DC who your players are obviously having issues with? Does it come from hiring an OL coach that no one in the NFL would hire because he's a long time buddy? Does it come from not going all out to improve an o-line that was full of question marks and suspect talent, after drafting a franchise QB? Does it come from not making sure you had backup QB that can throw the ball more than 10 yards? Just a few of the things that are making question who's instilling this winning culture? 

To say that a getting a better coach isn't sound logic seems illogical to me. If the coach is better, then wouldn't the results potentially be better? You said winning games makes the team better, but how do you accomplish that if you have a subpar head coach and staff? Wouldn't a better coach and staff have a greater chance of winning games? 

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(11-29-2020, 10:56 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Did you see how they played after he went down and even this week? This is not even a discussion. 

Yes. I did. Please allow me to explain further. First of all I totally understand what you’re saying. With Joe Burrow in the lineup the team is better but he’s not enough, not all by himself.

Many people believed during the off-season the Bengals were one franchise quarterback away from big success. Will Joe Burrow be better than Andy Dalton with respect to wins and losses? Yes, eventually, but not of his own accord. It takes an entire competitive team to win deep in the playoffs, not a team with a singular star surrounded by minions.

Joe Burrow is going to be fantastic IF surrounded by other great players and IF the Bengals hire Super Bowl caliber coaches.

[Sled21]

As for rooting for them to lost or not, I think it's a moot point. Without Burrow, I don't see any more wins on this schedule.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-29-2020, 10:44 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I respect you and I respect your opinion.

Two things I will still say over and over about losing out. 

Sewell is not a sure thing. He's a great college tackle, so was Jonah Williams, so were many other draft picks taken in the top 5 of a draft that have never panned out. Winning will attract more free agents, and that is what is going to fix this team more then a top 3 pick.

Secondly, this picture... look at this picture



That is the future in Tyler Boyd. That is a guy that is sick and tired of losing. I want that guy, and Gio and Tee and Bates and the other guys that are worth keeping to start feeling wins and to not have that look on their face.

I can not, and I will not cheer against this team and hope for losses. Losing out gets Sewell, great you gain one tackle at the costs of demoralizing Boyd, Bates, Higgins... yeah... not a trade I'm willing to make.

You worry about players too much. His face is no different than a fan's face, that still cares enough. Players and fans get over it after a couple days. 

Last year you were going on about Burrow not being a sure thing and they had too many holes and needed more picks. This year you seem to be doing the same thing. 

The best thing for this team is to lose all the remaining games and get a cornerstone like Sewell and then address the rest of the team with the rest of the draft...after hopefully getting one of the two FA guards out there. 

I already touched on the roster in a different thread and there aren't so many holes that they can't be fixed relatively quickly. 

This team is and has been ravaged by injures for the last few years and that has shown that their backups are woefully ineffective in any way shape or form. 

One draft pick, one free agent and health are the only things this team needs to be successful, even with Zac Asshat.