Finley was awful at QB and so was Allen...

[Luvnit2]

(11-30-2020, 11:10 AM)R3stangs Wrote: This is on the coaching staff and management. Why do we not have a serviceable backup QB? Hell we saw Giants lose their QB yesterday and McCoy come in and at at least held serve and gave the Giants a win as opposed to how Finley cam in and the game was immediately lost for us.

I don't understand the thinking.

My guess the thinking is the FO and staff knew we had no chance of winning football games if Burrow went down, so adding a vet for 6 to 12 million a year was a waste of cap money we can roll into 2021.

Long term, may have been smart move since cap is decreasing by 20 to 25 million in 2021 versus increasing by 10 to 15 million.

Lots of teams will be in cap hell in 2021 and forced to dump good players and their salaries.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-30-2020, 03:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think the point is they could instead bring in a different QB and take Seibert's place on the roster.
Seibert is a weekly inactive, but they could make Finley or Allen inactive in his place.

If this team really cared that much about winning a game or two out of the remaining five, Kaepernick probably makes the most sense to take a gamble on.
He isn't highly accurate but he's more accurate than Allen or Finley, plus he can extend plays with his legs.

FWIW, I don't think it makes sense to bring in another QB for the rest of the season because I want Pick #3 for Sewell.
But I would consider Kaepernick, Fitzpatrick, Tyrod Taylor, Winston, or McCarron to back up Burrow for next year. Any of them would be better than Finley or Allen IMO.

Shane Buechele

(11-30-2020, 03:25 PM)Destro Wrote: A roster spot is a roster spot, playing on game day or not. Having another player available who you don't have to decide to play until the morning of the game is valuable. How about 5 inactive kickers then, since it is so moot? Compete in the morning, best kicker plays and the rest are inactive. 

Another QB, O-lineman, LB, DT, etc. in the building. Can learn the playbook, be at practice, and if he beats out any one of the dumpster fires we roll out, give them the start. Nope, second kicker collecting a Cincinnati Bengals paycheck for several weeks is what this team needs. 

Only due to COVID rules, otherwise we 100% would not be carrying another K on the roster.

Inactive, we had:

- Fred
- Keaton Sutherland
- Finney

One has proven his worth a solid swingman/decent starter, the other has proven his worth as a good backup that can play C in a pinch and the other is a versatile guy that has proven he can play every position on the line, albeit some of them not well.

As for LBs, we have 6 suiting up and playing a healthy amount of snaps.

And then for DTs, we have plenty of good ones (for this point in the season) on the roster; Covington has played super-hard, X-man has been ok, Khalil McKenzie played and he's been your on/off development guy, Geno is still meh for this year and then we rotate guys inside.

I 100% agree with your point, but with Fat Randy's week 1 and the fact that COVID could crop up at any time, it makes sense to keep a second kicker, thus it's moot.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-30-2020, 06:54 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Shane Buechele

Who?

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-30-2020, 07:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Who?

Really?

No, for real, you don't know who he is?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Buechele

[ezekiel23]

Allen was obviously overwhelmed.I was a little surprised,being he has been in the league for a while.

[Wes Mantooth]

(11-30-2020, 06:54 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Shane Buechele

UC made that dude looks like a bag of dicks.

PS Go Bearcats!!!!

[Wes Mantooth]

(11-30-2020, 07:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Who?

He's a kid from SMU that transfered over from Texas.  He was actually getting some Heisman talk early in the year but he's had some stinkers as of late.

He's coming off a loss to East Carolina where he threw 2 picks, and the week before he put a 50% completion % with only 200 yards and 1 TD and 1 INT vs a decent Tulsa team.

Fwiw, his Hesiman talk ended real quick when UC made him look like absolute dog shit, and routed SMU 42-13.

PS Go Cats!

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-30-2020, 08:45 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: UC made that dude looks like a bag of dicks.

PS Go Bearcats!!!!

Will say, I'm super happy for UC and really hope they ride this wave AND make the CFP.

If they go undefeated, it will be criminal if they don't make it.

[*bfine32*]

Well we signed that dude who used to play Crocodile Dundee; maybe he can excel

[*ochocincos*]

(11-30-2020, 08:24 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Really?

No, for real, you don't know who he is?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Buechele

Nope, I didn't. Apparently he's the QB at SMU.
I don't personally want a draft pick to back up a draft pick.
I'd prefer a veteran backup.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-30-2020, 10:00 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Nope, I didn't. Apparently he's the QB at SMU.
I don't personally want a draft pick to back up a draft pick.
I'd prefer a veteran backup.

If it was anyone other than Burrow, I'd agree.

Burrow doesn't need a veteran; he IS a veteran. He needs an understudy that can do well and has experience in a similar system, in case he gets hurt, not a vet that will move on and be borderline useless.

[TheFan]

(11-30-2020, 10:37 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: If it was anyone other than Burrow, I'd agree.

Burrow doesn't need a veteran; he IS a veteran. He needs an understudy that can do well and has experience in a similar system, in case he gets hurt, not a vet that will move on and be borderline useless.

What top QB in the league didn't have a veteran QB either who started ahead of them or was their back up to learn from? 

Brees, Brady, Mahomes, Rogers, Rivers, Big Ben...the list goes on and on. 

Burrow isn't a veteran. He's a rookie who hasn't even played a full season of games. He still has a lot of things to learn and I guarantee he would say the same thing and welcome it. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-30-2020, 10:56 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Not defending the coaching staff, but Allen simply held on to the ball for way too long and missed open guys by the boatload, not to mention he didn't use his checkdowns at all (like Brady yesterday; the amount of times Fournette was open underneath was insane). Gio-van did have the big drop, but he was consistently getting open in speace, for what would've been (conceivably) 5-6 yard gains, on 1st and 2nd down; I counted 5 instances and there were probably more.

I don't know if Allen was skittish or if he just didn't have any confidence, but something wasn't clicking between the ears and if Burrow was in the same situation, the ball would've been out so much earlier, so much more often.

Listening to Bengals line tonight, one of the players was talking about how well he was doing in practice last week and Lap wondered why it didn't translate. 

I can tell you why. Practice and games are completely different. He can be a bit more relaxed and not worry about mistakes as much in practice. When game time starts, some guys spinchters tighten up a bit too much and they're scared to just let it go. Hence holding the ball too long and not throwing to guys that are wide open. 

[*Nately120*]

Peyton Manning lost his first 4 starts, so until Finley loses his first 5 we won't know if he can't be one of the best QBs to ever lace 'em up...or something.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-30-2020, 11:14 PM)TheFan Wrote: What top QB in the league didn't have a veteran QB either who started ahead of them or was their back up to learn from? 

Brees, Brady, Mahomes, Rogers, Rivers, Big Ben...the list goes on and on. 

Burrow isn't a veteran. He's a rookie who hasn't even played a full season of games. He still has a lot of things to learn and I guarantee he would say the same thing and welcome it. 

Of your list, only Brady did for an extended period of time (Bledsoe).

Brees and Ben had no one and Rivers/Mahomes had a vet around for 1 season (and Brees was only in year 2 or 3, so not really a Vet). And Mahomes I classify the same as Burrow; they don't need a vet behind them, they just need someone competent and who has experience in a similar (or the same) system.

Yes they were rookies or second year players, but they didn't play like rookies or inexperienced players and if they made a mistake, they didn't make it a second time.

That's what I meant by Burrow being a veteran (he isn't, of course); he's not like Herbert or Tua that are making stupid mistakes and relying only on their God-given talents (Tua has limited his, to be fair, but he has been far from stellar).

That's why you bring in a leader, someone who has experience with Air-Raid/Spread concepts and someone who is competent, but won't make huge mistakes or stupid plays.

There are 3 guys that fit that, either coming out or in the league currently: Minshew (who is under contract), Anthony Gordon (though he'd be my last choice, of the 3) and Shane Buechele.

As such, I'd spend a 5th or 6th on the young guy from college, who has a chip on his shoulder and is a leader of men.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-30-2020, 11:56 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Listening to Bengals line tonight, one of the players was talking about how well he was doing in practice last week and Lap wondered why it didn't translate. 

I can tell you why. Practice and games are completely different. He can be a bit more relaxed and not worry about mistakes as much in practice. When game time starts, some guys spinchters tighten up a bit too much and they're scared to just let it go. Hence holding the ball too long and not throwing to guys that are wide open. 

Truth....plus it was his first start in quite some time. He wasn't good, but at least he has a better arm than Thinley. 

[Okeana]

I would give Allen a break, he's still behind the same offensive line and it was his first game. His job is to lose games btw and as far as im concerned thats all he needs to do this year.

[TheFan]

(12-01-2020, 10:48 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Of your list, only Brady did for an extended period of time (Bledsoe).

Brees and Ben had no one and Rivers/Mahomes had a vet around for 1 season (and Brees was only in year 2 or 3, so not really a Vet). And Mahomes I classify the same as Burrow; they don't need a vet behind them, they just need someone competent and who has experience in a similar (or the same) system.

Yes they were rookies or second year players, but they didn't play like rookies or inexperienced players and if they made a mistake, they didn't make it a second time.

That's what I meant by Burrow being a veteran (he isn't, of course); he's not like Herbert or Tua that are making stupid mistakes and relying only on their God-given talents (Tua has limited his, to be fair, but he has been far from stellar).

That's why you bring in a leader, someone who has experience with Air-Raid/Spread concepts and someone who is competent, but won't make huge mistakes or stupid plays.

There are 3 guys that fit that, either coming out or in the league currently: Minshew (who is under contract), Anthony Gordon (though he'd be my last choice, of the 3) and Shane Buechele.

As such, I'd spend a 5th or 6th on the young guy from college, who has a chip on his shoulder and is a leader of men.

I think you're remembering some of these players early careers wrong. 

Drew Brees basically sat his entire rookie year behind Doug Flutie who continued on the team for another 3 years. Veteran QB presence. 

Phillip Rivers basically sat his entire first 2 years behind Drew Brees learning. Veteran QB presence (he was actually in year 4-5 while there with Rivers not 2-3). They then traded for another Veteran QB Billy Volcker who backed Rivers up for 6 years.

Big Ben had either Tommy Maddox and/or Charlie Batch there during his first 8 years in the league. Veteran QB presence.

Patrick Mahomes basically didn't play at all his rookie year sitting behind Alex Smith not to mention he has one of the best coaches (especially offensive minded coaches) in NFL history. Plus they picked up Matt Moore after trading Alex Smith. Veteran QB presence. 

There's a reason good teams don't back up their rookie QBs with other rookies. 

[Tony]

I never seen a QB like Allen be so undecided play to play.. They should have ran the Ball 80%. This dude just held on to the ball, and then held on some more. I watched some film on him from Arkansas, and the 1 thing I noticed is his pocket presence was down right disgusting. Accuracy is sketchy too.. With the state the team is in, they arent winning without at least a good QB...

[GreenCornBengal]

(12-01-2020, 02:14 PM)TheFan Wrote: I think you're remembering some of these players early careers wrong. 

Drew Brees basically sat his entire rookie year behind Doug Flutie who continued on the team for another 3 years. Veteran QB presence. 

Phillip Rivers basically sat his entire first 2 years behind Drew Brees learning. Veteran QB presence (he was actually in year 4-5 while there with Rivers not 2-3). They then traded for another Veteran QB Billy Volcker who backed Rivers up for 6 years.

Big Ben had either Tommy Maddox and/or Charlie Batch there during his first 8 years in the league. Veteran QB presence.

Patrick Mahomes basically didn't play at all his rookie year sitting behind Alex Smith not to mention he has one of the best coaches (especially offensive minded coaches) in NFL history. Plus they picked up Matt Moore after trading Alex Smith. Veteran QB presence. 

There's a reason good teams don't back up their rookie QBs with other rookies. 

Who needs a vet QB when you’ve got QB guru Zac Taylor? Who Dey think gonna teach them quarterbacks!