Argument for and against Sewell.

[Au165]

(12-07-2020, 12:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: So if Lawrence and Fields go 1/2, and Sewell is overhyped (and the gap between him and the other OT’s isn’t that big) why would any team trade up for him and give us a haul? Are you assuming another QB needy team will trade up for Trey Lance or someone else?

Potentially Lance, Wilson, Jones (QB movement usually starts after Bowls) with the other potential guy at play here Ja'marr Chase. I don't think the crazy haul people are talking about is in play, but I do think a 2nd could be had to slide back a few picks. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-07-2020, 01:12 PM)Au165 Wrote: Potentially Lance, Wilson, Jones (QB movement usually starts after Bowls) with the other potential guy at play here Ja'marr Chase. I don't think the crazy haul people are talking about is in play, but I do think a 2nd could be had to slide back a few picks. 

I'm usually not that big on trading back, I think it's generally way overhyped !

But where this team is now we need a ton of help across the board both O and D. If we could pick up and extra 2nd and 5th or something from a QB needy team that isn't that far below us I'd jump all over it.

[Goalpost]

I would trade back for Pitts. That's about it. If not stay put and take OL. No guarantee though when you trade back you get the player you want.

[Nicomo Cosca]

I’d want at least an xtra 1st and a 2nd to give up Sewell. In down QB years (2014, 2013, etc) he’d be a #1OA pick.

[Nicomo Cosca]

It cost the Bears a 1st, two 3rds, and 4th to move up one spot to take Trubisky. Don’t sell low.

[Gdale_Bengal]

Feels like the only way we trade out is if Sewell isn’t there. They pretty much have to have the best lineman in this draft since Jonah keeps getting hurt.

[Whatever]

(12-07-2020, 01:12 PM)Au165 Wrote: Potentially Lance, Wilson, Jones (QB movement usually starts after Bowls) with the other potential guy at play here Ja'marr Chase. I don't think the crazy haul people are talking about is in play, but I do think a 2nd could be had to slide back a few picks. 

Problem is, the current draft order has LAC and Dallas picking 4 and 5.  Everyone knows we aren't going QB.  LAC aren't going QB, either.  If Dallas resigns Dak, they won't take a QB, either.  There's no point moving up to 3 when you can pay less to get to 4 or 5 and still get your guy.

[Hammerstripes]

(12-07-2020, 02:24 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It cost the Bears a 1st, two 3rds, and 4th to move up one spot to take Trubisky. Don’t sell low.

They did get a 1st in return, so it really only cost them 2 3rds and a 4th.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-07-2020, 08:10 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: They did get a 1st in return, so it really only cost them 2 3rds and a 4th.

Not sure I’d say only. That’s still a lot to move up one spot. And then they took Trubisky when Watson and Mahomes were on the board lol. Ouch.

[Joelist]

If Turner is still coaching the OL Sewell will just regress on our team.

[Au165]

(12-07-2020, 06:22 PM)Whatever Wrote: Problem is, the current draft order has LAC and Dallas picking 4 and 5.  Everyone knows we aren't going QB.  LAC aren't going QB, either.  If Dallas resigns Dak, they won't take a QB, either.  There's no point moving up to 3 when you can pay less to get to 4 or 5 and still get your guy.

It’s not necessarily about who is or isn’t taking a QB around us it’s about who’s willing to move up and how far back teams will go. If someone at say 7 wants a QB and the team at 8 does too, how far does 7 have to move up to make sure 8 can’t get them. 3 ensures that if you love a Wilson/Lance/Jones you get your guy. It may not even be over a QB. Something as simple as a slide from 3 to 5 to ensure the Cowboys get Surtain isn’t a crazy thought.

The draft is wild and it’s a little early still to rule out much other than we know for the most part who pick 1 is. Pick 2 could be interesting as many assume it’s fields but with a new GM and potentially coach coming in maybe they prefer someone else, maybe they have ties to another QB somehow. Lots left still to figure out between now and then.

[JerseyDD09]

I was bored and read thru 1-11 pages on this post. It's pretty funny to me that fans like Jmoore and Essex, etc...always mentioned all the holes the team has and that's their reasoning for needing to trade down for extra picks, etc...
BUT, they nor anyone else ever mentioned that the Bengals have been ravaged by Injuries from Day 1. Has anyone even mentioned that READER, ATKINS and DANIELS never got to play 1 snap together while healthy??? Atkins has had a bum shoulder all year, never played next to Reader who got hurt after game 4, Daniels came over right before the season to play with Atkins and never got the chance. The other DT's (Tupou and Wren) were expected to be good contributors on the D Line. Never took a snap.
How about our Secondary? Who cares about WJIII when he'll get replaced with another #1 who never stepped foot on the field in Trey Waynes. We just take that money re-signing him and put it elsewhere.
UZOMAH was going to have a big year as I think everyone saw that Burrow developed a nice relationship with him. He's back next year as well.
Now you add Burrow, Mixon and Jonah to the injury list and that's a lot of freakin' talent gone this year.
This team doesn't need more draft picks to fix all the holes as JMoore proclaims. It just needs to get healthy for next year and add another good draft and FA. It needs more TALENT at Premiere positions as well.
The obvious weakness on this team is the OLine. Draft the most talented player in this draft, Sewell, at OT and that's a HUGE Upgrade already across the board.
OL---Sewell/Jonah Spain(Resign) Hopkins FA/Adeniji/Draft Sewell/Jonah
DL---FA/Rookie/Kareem Tupou/Daniels Reader/Tupou Atkins/Wren Hubbard

The Bengals lines will be just fine in this scenerio and ready to compete.

The Bengals could've won 4-5-6 games and a Tie if Burrow doesn't get hurt.

Next year, with a year under his belt, another strong Draft class and FA, and Injured players back, and this team can be competing for 1 of the Playoff spots. It'll have the talent, and the QB.

[Jpoore]

(12-07-2020, 11:44 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m a little tired of “appear to be” with our OL picks. Ogbuehi and Price also appeared to be quality NFL linemen.

Nobody is suggesting Sewell is all it will take to fix this thing, but he’s a damn good start. And he plays a top 2-3 most important position.

Every prospect is appear to be.

(12-08-2020, 01:20 AM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: I was bored and read thru 1-11 pages on this post. It's pretty funny to me that fans like Jmoore and Essex, etc...always mentioned all the holes the team has and that's their reasoning for needing to trade down for extra picks, etc...
BUT, they nor anyone else ever mentioned that the Bengals have been ravaged by Injuries from Day 1. Has anyone even mentioned that READER, ATKINS and DANIELS never got to play 1 snap together while healthy??? Atkins has had a bum shoulder all year, never played next to Reader who got hurt after game 4, Daniels came over right before the season to play with Atkins and never got the chance. The other DT's (Tupou and Wren) were expected to be good contributors on the D Line. Never took a snap.
How about our Secondary? Who cares about WJIII when he'll get replaced with another #1 who never stepped foot on the field in Trey Waynes. We just take that money re-signing him and put it elsewhere.
UZOMAH was going to have a big year as I think everyone saw that Burrow developed a nice relationship with him. He's back next year as well.
Now you add Burrow, Mixon and Jonah to the injury list and that's a lot of freakin' talent gone this year.
This team doesn't need more draft picks to fix all the holes as JMoore proclaims. It just needs to get healthy for next year and add another good draft and FA. It needs more TALENT at Premiere positions as well.
The obvious weakness on this team is the OLine. Draft the most talented player in this draft, Sewell, at OT and that's a HUGE Upgrade already across the board.
OL---Sewell/Jonah Spain(Resign) Hopkins FA/Adeniji/Draft Sewell/Jonah
DL---FA/Rookie/Kareem Tupou/Daniels Reader/Tupou Atkins/Wren Hubbard

The Bengals lines will be just fine in this scenerio and ready to compete.

The Bengals could've won 4-5-6 games and a Tie if Burrow doesn't get hurt.

Next year, with a year under his belt, another strong Draft class and FA, and Injured players back, and this team can be competing for 1 of the Playoff spots. It'll have the talent, and the QB.

Okay. I’ll take this step by step. Atkins has barely played due to our trash dc who is running our best players out of the building. Daniels and reader did play together. Waynes isn’t a cb1. At best he’s a slightly better Dre Kirkpatrick. LMAO also by ur scenario u want our secondary to be starting phillips. That’s bad. We HAVE to resign wj3. Most likely he’ll get the tag. Not a single player on our defense aside from bates is a top 10 player at their position. And we only have 1 player top 10 at their position on offense(mixon) and he’s borderline. So w need to trade back improve our team in a major way as it lacks talent across the board.

[JerseyDD09]

(12-09-2020, 06:36 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Every prospect is appear to be.
Okay. I’ll take this step by step. Atkins has barely played due to our trash dc who is running our best players out of the building. Daniels and reader did play together. Waynes isn’t a cb1. At best he’s a slightly better Dre Kirkpatrick. LMAO also by ur scenario u want our secondary to be starting phillips. That’s bad. We HAVE to resign wj3. Most likely he’ll get the tag. Not a single player on our defense aside from bates is a top 10 player at their position. And we only have 1 player top 10 at their position on offense(mixon) and he’s borderline. So w need to trade back improve our team in a major way as it lacks talent across the board.

Okay, I'll take this step by step AGAIN since you didn't read my post correctly! (I highlighted it up above for you again to help you follow along). The point I was trying to make that you clearly missed is that our starting Day 1 DL never got a change to play 1 snap together, much more even 1 game. I don't care about Reader and Daniels playing a few games together.

1. How good do you think the DL would've been with a HEALTHY----- Lawson/Hubbard   Daniels   Reader  Atkins  Dunlap??  (And, solid subs Tupou and Wren who never played a down this year)

2. You are 100% wrong on Atkins. Where are you getting your information from?? Haven't you been watching all year long??? He couldn't even play the 1st several games b/c he hurt his shoulder the last scrimmage before Week 1; and, it hasn't healed since, and he'll need minor surgery on it after the year. The DC is doing him a favor by letting him play 3rd Downs hoping he can put pressure on the QB!            

3. So, you're telling me that Waynes, who was the Starting #1 DB for MIKE ZIMMER, and who the Bengals spent 45 Mill on, isn't a #1 CB for us or this League? So, now Jpoore knows better than NFL Scouts and Zimmer, etc.....????               

Some of the stuff you say is just straight ridiculous man.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-07-2020, 03:13 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Feels like the only way we trade out is if Sewell isn’t there. They pretty much have to have the best lineman in this draft since Jonah keeps getting hurt.

In typical Bengals fashion, they'll probably hang on to Bobby Hart at least until they draft Sewell. And since most of the good FAs are gone by the draft, the Bengals would either spend some of that freed cap on a middling FA or just use it for extensions/rollover.

That's why I'm wanting Adeniji and Johnson to start the rest of the games at OT. I want to see if either one is decent enough to cut Bobby Hart before FA starts so they can use that extra cap for an actual good FA.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-10-2020, 02:24 AM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: Okay, I'll take this step by step AGAIN since you didn't read my post correctly! (I highlighted it up above for you again to help you follow along). The point I was trying to make that you clearly missed is that our starting Day 1 DL never got a change to play 1 snap together, much more even 1 game. I don't care about Reader and Daniels playing a few games together.

1. How good do you think the DL would've been with a HEALTHY----- Lawson/Hubbard   Daniels   Reader  Atkins  Dunlap??  (And, solid subs Tupou and Wren who never played a down this year)

2. You are 100% wrong on Atkins. Where are you getting your information from?? Haven't you been watching all year long??? He couldn't even play the 1st several games b/c he hurt his shoulder the last scrimmage before Week 1; and, it hasn't healed since, and he'll need minor surgery on it after the year. The DC is doing him a favor by letting him play 3rd Downs hoping he can put pressure on the QB!            

3. So, you're telling me that Waynes, who was the Starting #1 DB for MIKE ZIMMER, and who the Bengals spent 45 Mill on, isn't a #1 CB for us or this League? So, now Jpoore knows better than NFL Scouts and Zimmer, etc.....????               

Some of the stuff you say is just straight ridiculous man.

I don't have confidence Atkins will get back to his old form.
In 2019, Atkins played 16 games.
He only amounted to 4.5 sacks and 20 total pressures.


For comparison, 2018 with Austin/Lewis: 16 games, 10 sacks, 35 total pressures

So do I think this injury this year is affecting him? Sure.
But do I think he'd be an 8+ sack guy if he were not dealing with the injury? Probably not. At least not in Anarumo's defense.

Also, you list something that I think should have been done but was basically never done (that I recall seeing anyway)...
The Bengals should be rushing 5 far more than they have been. Sending Reader, Atkins/Daniels, Dunlap, Hubbard, and Lawson should generate a good pass rush. But they ran off Dunlap, Reader only played 5 games, and Atkins missed 4 out of the 5 games that Reader played in.

Daniels isn't really much of anything btw. If Dunlap were still here and all the DL were healthy, Daniels would be riding the bench if it were my decision.
Here are his pressures the past 3 seasons:
2018 (GB) - 14
2019 (DET) - 3
2020 (CIN) - 1

As for Trae Waynes, I don't believe he was CB1 in MIN. I thought that was Rhodes. Waynes just finished his rookie contract before coming to the Bengals.
If looking at PFF, Waynes really wasn't impressive. His highest PFF rating was 70.6 (2017). Every other season has been in the 60's.
William Jackson has outperformed Waynes' best rating multiple times. 2017 (90.2), 2018 (73.4), and this year (71.5).

So yes, Trae Waynes is really not a CB1, at least not a good one. WJ3 is more deserving.

[Hammerstripes]

(12-09-2020, 06:36 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Every prospect is appear to be.
Okay. I’ll take this step by step. Atkins has barely played due to our trash dc who is running our best players out of the building. Daniels and reader did play together. Waynes isn’t a cb1. At best he’s a slightly better Dre Kirkpatrick. LMAO also by ur scenario u want our secondary to be starting phillips. That’s bad. We HAVE to resign wj3. Most likely he’ll get the tag. Not a single player on our defense aside from bates is a top 10 player at their position. And we only have 1 player top 10 at their position on offense(mixon) and he’s borderline. So w need to trade back improve our team in a major way as it lacks talent across the board.

Not true at all.  Huge difference in "appearance" between 1st rounders and 6th rounders.

The reality is that Im tired of addressing the line with UDFA and 6th round picks.  We have the most important piece that a franchise can have.

Is there a better way to approach the line with FA and the draft?  I'm not sure there is a great market for OTs this year in free agency.  And if there is one that comes free, do you blow $15 million per year on them or do you draft Sewell and use that money on another position.

[Essex Johnson]

(12-11-2020, 11:29 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Not true at all.  Huge difference in "appearance" between 1st rounders and 6th rounders.

The reality is that Im tired of addressing the line with UDFA and 6th round picks.  We have the most important piece that a franchise can have.

Is there a better way to approach the line with FA and the draft?  I'm not sure there is a great market for OTs this year in free agency.  And if there is one that comes free, do you blow $15 million per year on them or do you draft Sewell and use that money on another position.

I'm not total support of FA big signing but the team has drafted high line picks over the past 6 years but many have not worked out.

[Bengalstripes9]

Draft Sewell if he's there. If not, someone will be willing to trade for one of the top 2 QBs that fell. In this situation, I would certainly trade down and be happy to do so. Otherwise I'd look at a lockdown corner or playmaking LB. I don't think there's an edge rusher worth the high pick. If you trade down you could look at a number of positions: guard, edge rusher, CB would be top of the list for sure.

[Jpoore]

(12-10-2020, 02:24 AM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: Okay, I'll take this step by step AGAIN since you didn't read my post correctly! (I highlighted it up above for you again to help you follow along). The point I was trying to make that you clearly missed is that our starting Day 1 DL never got a change to play 1 snap together, much more even 1 game. I don't care about Reader and Daniels playing a few games together.

1. How good do you think the DL would've been with a HEALTHY----- Lawson/Hubbard   Daniels   Reader  Atkins  Dunlap??  (And, solid subs Tupou and Wren who never played a down this year)

2. You are 100% wrong on Atkins. Where are you getting your information from?? Haven't you been watching all year long??? He couldn't even play the 1st several games b/c he hurt his shoulder the last scrimmage before Week 1; and, it hasn't healed since, and he'll need minor surgery on it after the year. The DC is doing him a favor by letting him play 3rd Downs hoping he can put pressure on the QB!            

3. So, you're telling me that Waynes, who was the Starting #1 DB for MIKE ZIMMER, and who the Bengals spent 45 Mill on, isn't a #1 CB for us or this League? So, now Jpoore knows better than NFL Scouts and Zimmer, etc.....????               

Some of the stuff you say is just straight ridiculous man.

#1. No I don’t. Bc Lou is the dc and he’s running our players out of the building. U can blame it on injury however u want. #2. Nah geno is being misused simple as that. #3. Are u kidding me?!?! We got ROASTED around the league for that deal. He’s a slightly better Dre Kirkpatrick. Put up a poll anywhere on any site is waynes a cb1 nobody agreeing with you. He’s a solid cb2.

(12-11-2020, 11:29 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Not true at all.  Huge difference in "appearance" between 1st rounders and 6th rounders.

The reality is that Im tired of addressing the line with UDFA and 6th round picks.  We have the most important piece that a franchise can have.

Is there a better way to approach the line with FA and the draft?  I'm not sure there is a great market for OTs this year in free agency.  And if there is one that comes free, do you blow $15 million per year on them or do you draft Sewell and use that money on another position.

I’m not talking about 6th round picks or udfas. I’m talking about improving the team. tackle is INSANELY deep this year. The tackle class this year= wr class last year. It’s that deep. I would take any of the top 5 tackles plus 3 extra top 60 picks over next year or 2 to trade back 8-10 spots. I’ll say again I’ll take Wyatt Davis Alex leatherwood Asante Samuel and a couple other high picks following year over Sewell.