NFL passing efficiency -

[Rubekahn29]

Let's also not forget that our WR have the least separation of any in the NFL, or at least one point this year. I can't remember the exact number, just that it was worst in NFL. Our WR are slow and cannot get open. So context is important. Burrow def needs to improve, but a rookie around average with no training camp/pre season, and no time to throw, and receivers that are always blanketed all impact that.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-09-2020, 11:25 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Indeed. His most impressive attribute to me, aside from mid-range throws was not throwing ints.

I think that IF you put a competent running game along with his skillset right now, that competent coaches could win.

With the lack of run game, the Steelers created the template to defend us. You basically rush 4 and get pressure. Then take a way the mid-range throws as best you can.

I notice quite a bit of pressure coming from the edge defenders crashing inside.
When looking at the replays, I most often see the OTs disengaging at that point, seemingly expecting the OG to take over the zone block. But instead, the OG is engaged with someone else, and the defender is right through.
This screams confusion and/or miscommunication.

While I've never played OL, from what I've learned, zone blocking is more confusing than man blocking. I get the impression these OL guys are often blocking the wrong person in situations like that. My thought is while there still might also be issues with it, would it make sense to change to a man power blocking scheme such that each OL can fixate on a guy and go?

[THE PISTONS]

(12-09-2020, 11:33 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I notice quite a bit of pressure coming from the edge defenders crashing inside.
When looking at the replays, I most often see the OTs disengaging at that point, seemingly expecting the OG to take over the zone block. But instead, the OG is engaged with someone else, and the defender is right through.
This screams confusion and/or miscommunication.

While I've never played OL, from what I've learned, zone blocking is more confusing than man blocking. I get the impression these OL guys are often blocking the wrong person in situations like that. My thought is while there still might also be issues with it, would it make sense to change to a man power blocking scheme such that each OL can fixate on a guy and go?

Yeah and doesn't that line up with the Elise Jesse article on the coaches where they aren't coaching technique and communicating?

Zac has been a pretty stout supporter of Turner and the line though.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-09-2020, 11:27 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Let's also not forget that our WR have the least separation of any in the NFL, or at least one point this year. I can't remember the exact number, just that it was worst in NFL. Our WR are slow and cannot get open. So context is important. Burrow def needs to improve, but a rookie around average with no training camp/pre season, and no time to throw, and receivers that are always blanketed all impact that.

They do not get much separation, it's true.
While each receiver has talent in different ways, most are not considered speedy.

According to https://www.playerprofiler.com/ here is the average separation for our 5 main receivers:
Tee Higgins - 1.20 yards
Tyler Boyd - 1.20 yards
AJ Green - 1.16 yards (Was 1.17 in 2018)
Auden Tate - 1.00 yards
Drew Sample - 1.67 yards

For some comparisons with some high-profile receivers on other teams:
Davante Adams - 2.14 yards
Tyreek Hill - 1.98 yards
DeAndre Hopkins - 1.88 yards
Darren Waller - 1.80 yards
Travis Kelce - 1.73 yards
Justin Jefferson - 1.66 yards
DK Metcalf - 1.51 yards
Keenan Allen - 1.28 yards

Part of this is almost assuredly the OL not being able to block long enough for routes to develop, but it's also that the receivers are not able to get separation quickly enough due to lack of shiftiness/speed.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-09-2020, 11:54 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah and doesn't that line up with the Elise Jesse article on the coaches where they aren't coaching technique and communicating?

Zac has been a pretty stout supporter of Turner and the line though.

If I wanted to try to defend Turner, Anarumo, and Taylor, I might say that the schemes look great on paper. But they could be very difficult to execute, at least with the players they have. As such, the argument they could make is if they got better players, their schemes would work better.

And that may technically be true, but you have the players you have, and quite a few of them look to make mistakes a lot.

[Rubekahn29]

(12-09-2020, 11:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: They do not get much separation, it's true.
While each receiver has talent in different ways, most are not considered speedy.

According to https://www.playerprofiler.com/ here is the average separation for our 5 main receivers:
Tee Higgins - 1.20 yards
Tyler Boyd - 1.20 yards
AJ Green - 1.16 yards (Was 1.17 in 2018)
Auden Tate - 1.00 yards
Drew Sample - 1.67 yards

For some comparisons with some high-profile receivers on other teams:
Davante Adams - 2.14 yards
Tyreek Hill - 1.98 yards
DeAndre Hopkins - 1.88 yards
Darren Waller - 1.80 yards
Travis Kelce - 1.73 yards
Justin Jefferson - 1.66 yards
DK Metcalf - 1.51 yards
Keenan Allen - 1.28 yards

Part of this is almost assuredly the OL not being able to block long enough for routes to develop, but it's also that the receivers are not able to get separation quickly enough due to lack of shiftiness/speed.

I think Tee and Boyd are excellent pillars, but we need more speed, but like you said, the line could help, and I do believe ZTs scheme plays a factor. I hardly every see any creativity to get people open. 

[*ochocincos*]

(12-09-2020, 11:59 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I think Tee and Boyd are excellent pillars, but we need more speed, but like you said, the line could help, and I do believe ZTs scheme plays a factor. I hardly every see any creativity to get people open. 

Yea it's worth pointing out that Adams, Hopkins, and Kelce are not very fast (all 4.55+ 40 time), but they find ways to get good separation. Specific play calls, crisp route running, footwork, etc. all playing into how they are getting their separation.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-09-2020, 11:54 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah and doesn't that line up with the Elise Jesse article on the coaches where they aren't coaching technique and communicating?

Zac has been a pretty stout supporter of Turner and the line though.

I would say the communication is a two-way street. It is (or should be) pretty clear when two OL go on different assignments and allow a rusher to get right by them, that they need to talk to each other to see what went wrong. Part of the responsibility falls on the OL coach to review that tape and talk it out with the players to help them get it right moving forward, but the players are responsible for asking what they might be doing wrong so that they can improve.

In regards to technique, the biggest issues I've seen with OL don't seem to be technique-related. They seem to be assignment-related.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-08-2020, 11:48 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So we added Joe Burrow and just got marginally better in passing efficiency.

Things you probably wouldn't have guessed:

In 2019, the Bengals ranked 28th in passing efficiency (ANY/A).

In 2020, with Joe Burrow as the QB for 85% of their passing plays, the Bengals rank.... 27th in passing efficiency.

— Football Perspective (@fbgchase) December 8, 2020

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Am I the only one that found it funny that the Eagle logo looks like it is looking away from the rest of the league?

[THE PISTONS]

(12-09-2020, 11:27 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Let's also not forget that our WR have the least separation of any in the NFL, or at least one point this year. I can't remember the exact number, just that it was worst in NFL. Our WR are slow and cannot get open. So context is important. Burrow def needs to improve, but a rookie around average with no training camp/pre season, and no time to throw, and receivers that are always blanketed all impact that.

No doubt. I think basically 99.9% of people are very happy with Burrow on the board. He just does have some work to put in and he'd probably be the 1st to tell us that.

But, yeah the WR's and line and TE's and Running Game haven't helped him.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-09-2020, 03:54 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Am I the only one that found it funny that the Eagle logo looks like it is looking away from the rest of the league?

Guess who the Eagles QB Coach, Passing Coordinator...and supposedly new play caller is?

Zac's brother.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-08-2020, 05:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Burrow has been highly accurate - 65.3%. That's very, very good for a rookie QB, regardless if he's a first-round pick or not.

What will improve the Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt (ANY/A) are:
- Get an OL who can block long enough such that receivers have time to get open
- Get receivers who can separate better/faster

The OL is a higher priority because no receiver is going to get great separation if they only have 2 seconds or less before the ball is thrown.

Yes sir. We will improve big time as long as we improve the OL. Burrow can work with the guys we already have and we can 
get much more efficient. With Boyd, Higgins, Tate, Sample, Gio, Mixon he has good weapons. Improve the OL, get the running 
game going and it will open up the passing game.

Not to mention getting a decent OC and OL coach.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-09-2020, 04:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes sir. We will improve big time as long as we improve the OL. Burrow can work with the guys we already have and we can 
get much more efficient. With Boyd, Higgins, Tate, Sample, Gio, Mixon he has good weapons. Improve the OL, get the running 
game going and it will open up the passing game.

Not to mention getting a decent OC and OL coach.

We've talked about improving the oline for 3-4 years.

It's easier for us to type about than an inept front office to do.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-09-2020, 08:36 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We've talked about improving the oline for 3-4 years.

It's easier for us to type about than an inept front office to do.

Well, we still have to talk about it lol

Get Sewell and a new OL coach that is not inept add another versatile OL in FA and than we can stop typing about it.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-10-2020, 05:32 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well, we still have to talk about it lol

Get Sewell and a new OL coach that is not inept add another versatile OL in FA and than we can stop typing about it.

Say we pick 3...I think there's a decent chance that they pass up Sewell because of Hart. Especially if they think they can't re-sign Jackson. No way are they going to go out and sign another really expensive CB to go with Waynes. They could want another CB on a rookie deal.

It's far from a slam dunk that they take Sewell. Or they could go WR to replace Green. Or a DT to replace Geno.

[Essex Johnson]

(12-10-2020, 05:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Say we pick 3...I think there's a decent chance that they pass up Sewell because of Hart. Especially if they think they can't re-sign Jackson. No way are they going to go out and sign another really expensive CB to go with Waynes. They could want another CB on a rookie deal.

It's far from a slam dunk that they take Sewell. Or they could go WR to replace Green. Or a DT to replace Geno.

Would you be ok trading back to acquire more high rounds picks with soooooo many holes to fill

[THE PISTONS]

(12-10-2020, 05:55 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Would you be ok trading back to acquire more high rounds picks with soooooo many holes to fill

Maybe, it honestly depends on the offer, but I think a guy like Sewell is a pick that's hard to mess up. You trade down and the chances of hitting on those picks are lower.

Hypothetically, for #3, if you offered me like the 7th pick this year and a 3rd Round pick and a 1st next year...that would be tempting.

This is a weird draft year too with guys opting out. It's going to make scouting it and putting together a draft board a lot harder in some ways.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-10-2020, 05:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Say we pick 3...I think there's a decent chance that they pass up Sewell because of Hart. Especially if they think they can't re-sign Jackson. No way are they going to go out and sign another really expensive CB to go with Waynes. They could want another CB on a rookie deal.

It's far from a slam dunk that they take Sewell. Or they could go WR to replace Green. Or a DT to replace Geno.

Would be beyond idiotic to pass up Sewell cause we have Hart...

Come on man. We haven't been THAT bad drafting lately, that was actually a really good Draft we had in 2020.

Lots of rookies contributed in a great way, the first 3 were off the charts IMO.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-10-2020, 10:24 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Would be beyond idiotic to pass up Sewell cause we have Hart...

Come on man. We haven't been THAT bad drafting lately, that was actually a really good Draft we had in 2020.

Lots of rookies contributed in a great way, the first 3 were off the charts IMO.

Burrow was a no brainer. Higgins was a good pick.

Some other the other guys have potential.

The Bengals love Hart. I see mocks with Sewell going 4 or 5. Its no guarantee we take him. We should take him, but you never know especially if Jackson leaves.

[Essex Johnson]

(12-10-2020, 06:14 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Maybe, it honestly depends on the offer, but I think a guy like Sewell is a pick that's hard to mess up. You trade down and the chances of hitting on those picks are lower.

Hypothetically, for #3, if you offered me like the 7th pick this year and a 3rd Round pick and a 1st next year...that would be tempting.

This is a weird draft year too with guys opting out. It's going to make scouting it and putting together a draft board a lot harder in some ways.

Well I look at it this way.. we did not move the needle that much with Burrow and I don;t think we will with Sewell not as much because of the player but the lack of talent now and underperformance of other players.  Maybe it is time for the Bengals to do what other teams have done ie Baltimore .. trade back maybe more than once during the draft and load up with picks.. Burrow is going to need much more than a single tackle to protect him and if anything we will just look like the Cowboys even if you score points, your defense gives up more.  

I hope we can swing a trade with Miami.. get probably the 8 to 10th pick and another high round pick 2nd and maybe a 3rd or 4th.  That would net us maybe 6 picks in the first 120 picks