Is it all ZT?

[kalibengal]

see link on ZT and past bengals coaches....begs the question: If Bengals had the legit infrastructure in place (GM, scouts etc) would we
want " Zack Back" as that ROMAN ED commercial dad says.
If ML lands a new gig next yr and starts tearing it up thats going to be painful....

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/12/11/22167799/zac-taylor-coaching-tenure-bengals-front-office-ownership-mike-brown

[Pat5775]

It’s not all Zac, but he is a huge part of the blame. His game planning and play calling is atrocious... and as for Marvin tearing up the league, I wouldn’t be shocked at all if he wins plenty of 1:00 games. Now if he starts winning consistently in primetime and playoff games, then it will be nauseating

[GodFather]

Zac is also responsible for his coaches. And his inaction with Lou and especially Turner falls squarely on him...

[bengals67]

Front, office, head coach, assistant coaches and roster

All bad.

Complete Dumpster fire.

They wont fix it and will be gone when lease expires because some city will give them an amazing deal where they can make more money and not change their ways.

[THE PISTONS]

I won't do this often, but the front office went out and spent A LOT of money in free agency. Jonah, Burrow, Tee Higgins, AJ Green, and Wilson at LB all got added to this roster this year. In addition to Reader, Vonn Bell, and some other free agents. They got rid of Cordy Glenn and Jon Miller.

And the team was terrible statistically. The passing game, which was the highlight of the team, ranked similarly to last years ranking.

As far as coaches, Turner and Lou are his friends. It's clear he picked these guys. He had a shot at Del Rio, but it didn't work out after they talked.

This is clearly on Taylor.

We played an epically weak schedule this year and to have 2.5 wins is just terrible.

Flores inherited a gutted Dolphins roster and in 1 year turned it around.

[fredtoast]

Steelers DC Keith Butler will leave for a head coaching job and be replaced by Marvin Lewis.

[THE PISTONS]

Another way to look at this is Wins above replacement...which is a baseball stat.

Look at Zac this way: If you replaced Zac with an average football coach, would that coach have less, equal, or more wins?

It's hard to say that we could hire any current NFL Coach and they would have less than 2.5 wins with this roster. Joe Judge for the Giants just beat Seattle on the road without Barkley and Jones at QB for instance.

You'd likely have to replace Taylor with the worst of the worst, Gase for instance to get 2.5 wins...and even at that, I think Gase is a better OC and with Burrow, Higgins, Green, Boyd, Mixon, and Bernard...I think Gase probably wins more than 2.5 games here.

IF you put Tomlin and his Staff here...we probably win 7-9 games. Maybe 10 and make the playoffs. I feel like Dunlap would probably get 9 sacks.

[bengals67]

(12-11-2020, 02:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I won't do this often, but the front office went out and spent A LOT of money in free agency. Jonah, Burrow, Tee Higgins, AJ Green, and Wilson at LB all got added to this roster this year. In addition to Reader, Vonn Bell, and some other free agents. They got rid of Cordy Glenn and Jon Miller.

And the team was terrible statistically. The passing game, which was the highlight of the team, ranked similarly to last years ranking.

As far as coaches, Turner and Lou are his friends. It's clear he picked these guys. He had a shot at Del Rio, but it didn't work out after they talked.

This is clearly on Taylor.

We played an epically weak schedule this year and to have 2.5 wins is just terrible.

Flores inherited a gutted Dolphins roster and in 1 year turned it around.

:andy: :andy: :andy:

[THE PISTONS]

(12-11-2020, 02:15 PM)bengals67 Wrote: :andy: :andy: :andy:

Yeah...so even if the roster was bad. Add Burrow, Jonah, Tee, Green, Bell, Reader, Wilson, Bynes, and some of the other guys...that's like 1/3 of the starters basically. And we went from 2 wins to 2.5 wins. The year before Zac got here...6 wins.

He's underperformed at an epic level.

This isn't a SB Team, but it should have been an 7-9 win team this year.

When adding a QB like Burrow doesn't help the results at all, you got other issues.

Also, does it strike anyone as odd that Zac is so bad in 1 score games? I mean his only win in 2 years was against a 1 win Jaguars team. He has basically found MANY DIFFERENT ways to lose 1 score games.

And we're like 0-15 on the road. He hasn't won a single road game in 2 years! 2 years! And this year, most stadiums don't even have fans cheering.

If people thought Shula was bad, Zac is much much worse.

[*bengalfan74*]

Is it all on Zac ? no it's rarely all on the HC, QB, OC or whatever.

Having said that it's obvious at this point ZT doesn't have what it takes to succeed at the NFL level. Perhaps down the road he will ? But are we willing to throw away Burrow's rookie contract and probably beyond while this guy learns how to get it done ?

[Rubekahn29]

No excuses for winning 4 games in 2 years. A middle of the pack coach doubles that total. This team is soft, and it starts with ZT. There is no aggression, and often times too much confusion. You can steal wins on good communication and effort alone.

[*Nately120*]

On one hand I realize it's not all ZT's fault, but on the other hand if the Steelers fired Tomlin and made ZT their HC going forward I know we'd all be popping champagne bottles and Steeler fans would be freaking out.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-11-2020, 02:36 PM)Nately120 Wrote: On one hand I realize it's not all ZT's fault, but on the other hand if the Steelers fired Tomlin and made ZT their HC going forward I know we'd all be popping champagne bottles and Steeler fans would be freaking out.

We'd be like

[*Nately120*]

(12-11-2020, 02:37 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: We'd be like

I always try to run things though my "what if the Steelers were doing this?" filer.  I'd wager when we hired ZT I said I hope it works, but how would we be feeling if the Steelers fired Tomlin and replaced him with a QB coach with an empty/unsuccessful resume?

That's how I try to put things in perspective.

I'd feel lousy if the Steelers had Burrow, ergo he's a good player to have
I'd feel great if the Steelers had our o-line, ergo they aren't so good
I'd love it if the Steelers had our coaching staff and front office


and so on.  If you'd like the idea of your rivals having what you have or what you are getting, that thing probably isn't so good.  Side note, my wife wishes her worst enemy were married to me.

[J24]

No it's not all on Taylor but their is enough on his plate to fire him. If you at before Burrow got hurt this team had 3 inexhaustible results on the schedule. Colts 21 point lead, Eagles how did they not win that?, And of course the second Browns game. Plus you have to factor in they were not competitive against either the Steelers or Ravens.

[Pat5775]

(12-11-2020, 02:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Steelers DC Keith Butler will leave for a head coaching job and be replaced by Marvin Lewis.

That wouldn’t surprise me at all. Marvin admitted that he grew up a diehard Steelers fan. He’ll be waiting in the wings to take over as HC when/if they move on from Tomlin.

[Bengalstripes9]

Yeah, Zac hasn't looked good.

I'd love to see Marvin get another shot as a DC or HC with an NFL team. Still very much respect him as a coach, more-so that Zac for sure. When Marv left, he said the key to the Bengals turning things around was the offensive line. Here we are 2 years later and Zac doesn't seem close to fixing the problem.

[*ochocincos*]

I'm sure the front office played a part for why the Bengals are not a desirable coaching destination.
However, Taylor seems responsible for:
- Which specific coaches he has
- Offensive playcalling
- Indirectly the defensive playcalling, defensive scheme, and OL blocking scheme

The Bengals could make some changes to attract better talent (both coaches and players), but there's really no way to think Taylor is only limited because of this front office until we actually see him elsewhere. Up to this point, he hasn't been successful with any role aside from QB coach.

[*psychdoctor*]

The head of the snake is Mike Brown. But it was on Taylor who got Joe Burrow injured and who hired Lou and Turner.

I don't think any new coach is going to solve the organization and its problems. Placing a responsibility of scouting on coaches is a joke these days. Not having adequate practice facilities and a bubble field in a cold weather state are points that support the organization is frugal and behind the times.

[Jason_NC]

I think it's difficult to judge Zac this year based on all the expected starters they have been without for so many games, and the development curve for rookies, and the steep drop from the 3 veterans they were expecting more from. I still think he has a lot of growth he needs to do to become a good head coach, but he seems to have the mind and people skills to develop. But can we afford to be patient with him.