Zac looked like he was done

[MileHighGrowler]

(12-14-2020, 04:56 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: We absolutely have not built a bad product for over a decade.  A decade ago, we were JUST ABOUT to launch a run into the playoffs yearly... That was nothing to shake a stick at. 

Believe it or not, there are sometimes when making crazy decisions can lead you to being called an innovator, trailblazer, etc.  It appears based on our abysmal record the last couple years that perhaps it wasn't the right call, but I wouldn't fault them for totally turning the norm upside down.  If we are afraid to fail because of change, we never will change.  I'd also say, if you're gonna fail, fail fast.  That allows us to pivot quicker.  Zac has indeed failed fast.  Should he be shown the door, it'd be hard for anyone, even the biggest zac homer (me) to defend.  I wouldn't even try.  I get it.  But I wouldn't say let's not ever do something radical again.  It can lead to great things, and it absolutely shows me that we're trying to think different.

There are many who would love a "proven" HC to come in and replace Zac.  I think the only benefit that comes from the prior experience is the connections to help hire great coordinators.  But you're not going to find a HC who's been super successful just randomly leaving his team and coming here (or anywhere else).  These guys are available for jobs for a reason.  

So I agreed when it was ML's time to go that the Bengals should bring in a young guy.  They tried Zac.  I had no issue with his lack of success as an OC in the past because he was going to be a HC.  Of course we all know how it actually went in the end.  But still, I have no problem with them trying it out.  You never know who the next great one is going to be without giving some people a chance.  High risk, high reward.  That's how most of us viewed the hire.  

I think the experiment needs to end after this season, though.  Because the window for these young guys will close in a few years.  They need to make moves now.  It's time to go a different direction.  And sometimes it take a couple of tries to get it right.  That's just life.  I just don't want them to sit here and do nothing and hope it magically changes.  If that's how this goes, the fans will lose their minds and next year's FA is going to be a joke.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-14-2020, 04:36 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I thought Taylor was going to be fired today, Monday at 3pm. But maybe they wait until end of year.

No way they do it with just 3 games left. Especially right before Xmas. Hopefully it happens right after the season.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-14-2020, 04:56 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: We absolutely have not built a bad product for over a decade.  A decade ago, we were JUST ABOUT to launch a run into the playoffs yearly... That was nothing to shake a stick at. 

Believe it or not, there are sometimes when making crazy decisions can lead you to being called an innovator, trailblazer, etc.  It appears based on our abysmal record the last couple years that perhaps it wasn't the right call, but I wouldn't fault them for totally turning the norm upside down.  If we are afraid to fail because of change, we never will change.  I'd also say, if you're gonna fail, fail fast.  That allows us to pivot quicker.  Zac has indeed failed fast.  Should he be shown the door, it'd be hard for anyone, even the biggest zac homer (me) to defend.  I wouldn't even try.  I get it.  But I wouldn't say let's not ever do something radical again.  It can lead to great things, and it absolutely shows me that we're trying to think different.

I'd say the Cardinals going with Kingsbury worked out well. That was considered an outside the box hire. But Kingsbury had a MUCH MORE successful track record than Taylor.

Taylor has failed at every NFL job outside of being a QB coach. Also, he's Mike Shermans son-in-law and got a lot of opportunities due to that.

The Bengals management is fighting it out with the Lions for the worst record of the last 30 years. They're not innovators. But, if you're going to take a chance on a guy, atleast find one who succeeded as an OC somewhere.

I think you're overall point is valid though. They tried something new. Instead of just promoting a current assistant to HC, they tried something. They just missed really badly.

[Bengalholic]

(12-14-2020, 04:48 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: I get the Zac hate, as I'm maybe coming around, but Tobin and scouts ?  Who didn't like this years draft?  I know we've missed on some folks, like every other team mind you, but I remember prior to Tobin and our misses being more frequent.  We aren't cornerbacks, we don't need the short memory.  

Maybe I need ya'll to help me come around on this, too.  A lot of you are much more intelligent on this stuff than me, just a fan who has some thoughts (bad ones according to many, LOL).

All I know is that this franchise desperately needs an experienced, qualified person in the front office making the actual football decisions. Where - among Mike, Katie, Troy, Paul and Duke - is the 'football expertise' coming from? The closest they have is Duke, and he's a guy who got hired because Mike was friends with his dad, has been here for 22 years and lucked out because he had Marvin for 16 of those, helping to build some very good rosters. Duke is like Zac with the Rams in some ways, getting far more credit than he has actually earned.

I wish Mike would finally admit that they need someone to come in and run the show for them. Bring in a Mike Borgonzi, Brian Xanders, Ed Dodds, etc...and let them have a shot at turning things around. Until that happens, which probably won't be till Mike's completely out of the picture, the only hope will continue to be getting a HC that can be competent in all areas of personnel, as well as being a good coach. 

[XenoMorph]

(12-14-2020, 05:05 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No way they do it with just 3 games left. Especially right before Xmas. Hopefully it happens right after the season.

they should announce his firing on christmas day....


That will feel just about right for how he does things with his players.

and be a gift all fans can enjoy

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-14-2020, 05:09 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: they should announce his firing on christmas day....


That will feel just about right for how he does things with his players.

and be a gift all fans can enjoy

Or just hire his replacement and let him find out about it second hand lol

[THE PISTONS]

(12-14-2020, 05:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Or just hire his replacement and let him find out about it second hand lol

Office Space him!

[Tony]

There has been alot coming out about Marvins time here. I can't believe I am gonna say this, but it's not all Zacks fault. Not even close. Kinda feel bad for him..

[PDub80]

(12-14-2020, 01:51 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Methinks Duke Tobin is in the "untouchables" category.

(12-14-2020, 02:04 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: To me, that's more depressing than the possibility that Zac comes back next year.  Tobin needs to go and be replaced.  

Duke Tobin is a loyal Brownist and not going anywhere. No question. Not long ago, in the middle of his string of draft success/blind luck, Tobin was offered several opportunities to interview for GM spots at other clubs. The Lions, specifically, if I recall. He wouldn't even interview. He declined. 

Tobin is a Bengal for life and that is that.

[*Awful Llama*]

(12-14-2020, 03:48 AM)JWW1971 Wrote: Have to say that today for the first time in his interview after the game, Zac looked like he was done.
I've saw most of his previous interviews after games and he always still sounded like he believed he could turn this round but not today.
I honestly don't think it will be long before he is gone, I don't think he will get fired but I honestly think he will walk

Nah, he rebounded.  In his Monday presser he was all sunshine, lollipops and rainbows.  The cockeyed optimist, if you will.  He related how one day he (and presumably we) will look back on this time of infinite losing, and it will only serve to make all the playoff game victories and championships (yes, he actually used the 'c word') all the sweeter.

He's more delusional than a shithouse rat.

[cj1895]

(12-14-2020, 04:56 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: We absolutely have not built a bad product for over a decade.  A decade ago, we were JUST ABOUT to launch a run into the playoffs yearly... That was nothing to shake a stick at. 

Believe it or not, there are sometimes when making crazy decisions can lead you to being called an innovator, trailblazer, etc.  It appears based on our abysmal record the last couple years that perhaps it wasn't the right call, but I wouldn't fault them for totally turning the norm upside down.  If we are afraid to fail because of change, we never will change.  I'd also say, if you're gonna fail, fail fast.  That allows us to pivot quicker.  Zac has indeed failed fast.  Should he be shown the door, it'd be hard for anyone, even the biggest zac homer (me) to defend.  I wouldn't even try.  I get it.  But I wouldn't say let's not ever do something radical again.  It can lead to great things, and it absolutely shows me that we're trying to think different.

Agree except we didn’t “pivot quicker”. A quick pivot would have been firing the coach who set records for ineptitude in his first year on a historically bad franchise after one year. Getting the #1 overall pick should be disqualifying as a coach and result in relegation.

[*psychdoctor*]

(12-14-2020, 04:29 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: coach contracts are fully gaurenteed hes paid the next 2 years if hes here or not...

which is why i worry he still might be

I thought it was a 3 year contract

[jj22]

At some point the culture sets itself.

It would have been nice if ZT was the right hire. A 3rd year would have been palatable if the team would have shown any improvement in the win column.

But they haven't, and all the progress (close games, draft), can only be feel good stories for so long before you wake up and there is a losing culture.

There is a losing culture. And you rarely (if ever) see the HC responsible for the culture setting in pull the team out of it. Not with the same team. Maybe at the next stop. Even if ZT is a good HC, at 4-23-1, the culture is set here.

A 3rd year isn't going to change it.

[BengalsRocker]

For years we've been hearing that stupid phrase about the definition of insanity is doing the same thing(Marvin)over and over again expecting different results.

Now we clearly have an insane hire of an totally inexperienced coach.

We've seen the results or lack there of basically.

Fire this sucker and get your ass back to the drawing board Blackburn, Scrooge, and Doofus Tobin.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-14-2020, 09:03 PM)jj22 Wrote: At some point the culture sets itself.

It would have been nice if ZT was the right hire. A 3rd year would have been palatable if the team would have shown any improvement in the win column.

But they haven't, and all the progress (close games, draft), can only be feel good stories for so long before you wake up and there is a losing culture.

There is a losing culture. And you rarely (if ever) see the HC responsible for the culture setting in pull the team out of it. Not with the same team. Maybe at the next stop. Even if ZT is a good HC, at 4-23-1, the culture is set here.

A 3rd year isn't going to change it.

Yeah...you can't bring a guy back with 4.5 wins in 2 years and say we're building a winning culture. It's a losing culture. No team in the NFL brings Zac back...except maybe 1.

[Destro]

(12-14-2020, 05:09 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: they should announce his firing on christmas day....

Dalton approves. :andy:

[Bronxbengal]

(12-14-2020, 02:28 PM)Bengalsfanz Wrote: ...................They have built a bad product for over a decade and most people do not want to be affiliated with that........

Past decade? Try for the past THREE decades. Even with Marvin here the Bengals were a joke because they couldn’t win a playoff game. That Steelers game when Joey Porter came on the field was a disaster. The Brown family have no pride in their product. It’s like during the eighties when Ford and GM made crappy cars. They racked in a ton of money. Ford and GM got serious about the quality of their product when Honda and Toyota took market share and profits away.

Brown family makes money regardless if they win or lose. Product quality is irrelevant as long as the money keeps rolling in.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Pat5775]

(12-14-2020, 07:28 PM)Tony Wrote: There has been alot coming out about Marvins time here. I can't believe I am gonna say this, but it's not all Zacks fault. Not even close. Kinda feel bad for him..

Zac has pretty much complete control of this roster. The free agency signings, the draft picks, the assistant coaches he hired... and he’s failing at a historic rate. Why do you feel bad for him?

[Bengal Dude]

(12-14-2020, 08:53 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I thought it was a 3 year contract

There was an article that came out that said all of the 2019 coaching hires signed 5 year deals.

[*psychdoctor*]

(12-15-2020, 02:39 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: There was an article that came out that said all of the 2019 coaching hires signed 5 year deals.

that is not good