I'm optimistic

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(12-20-2020, 01:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If you're going by that list then I don't know what to tell you.

James Williams and Marcus Mariota top 15 but Bridgewater is not.

Ha Ha Clinton-Dix above Leonard Williams? Dix got cut in training camp.

Eric Ebron over DERRICK HENRY. 

38 year old Cameron Wake over 26 year old Bud Dupree.

I could go on. Bottom line is Reeder and Waynes were 2 of the best (if not the best) FAs in their position. 

In all fairness Waynes is a number 2 corner not a number 1. He would get lit up going against number 1 receivers

[GodFather]

(12-19-2020, 09:24 PM)Benton Wrote: I get the angst and anger over this season. It's been a rough two years. And just when we looked like we were about to turn a corner, things got worse.

But I've got to admit, I'm optimistic about next season for a couple reasons.

1. Burrow. He was looking good when he went down and with the way things are, he's likely to come back around the start of the season as healthy as before.

2. Coordinators. Head coaching aside (and I realize in a few posts this is going to devolve into "we ain't going anywhere with ZT driving"), one of our biggest issues has been the coordinators. I don't see any way a few of the worst aren't gone.

But the big thing is...

3. Drafting. Our last draft was the best in a long time. And not just because we got Joe. Tee is looking good. Wilson is heading in the right direction. Akeem is going to take some time, but he's going to be decent. The rest, who knows? But the last I felt like we had four good picks by the end of the season was 2013. With another high pick and ZT's second year with the draft, I think we'll do good again.

4. FA. Last offseason we were aggressive for the first time in a long time. And this year, we're 5th or 6th overall in money available. I think we'll continue the spend (we've got a while before we have to worry about big resigning contracts).

We'll see just how optimistic things are this offseason and what the front office does. With their track record theres not alot to be optimistic about. 

I love Joe Burrow and we have him on a rookie contract and could really do some great things if the right steps are taken by the front office, but do you really think they will? I certainly dont...in fact quite the opposite..

But lets hope they surprise us all...

[SladeX]

My optimism begins and ends with the coaching staff. I check in every day to see if ZT has been fired yet. Everything else is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, IMHO. I don't see the need to say this very often. Back to the Klotsch section for me, then.

[ah5]

(12-20-2020, 11:26 AM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: They need to upgrade the O line for sure. I am not that high on Jonah as a LT so I am hoping Sewell will be there for the Bengals at pick 3 (I thought he would be there for sure but then I watched Fields vs N’Western). I think moving Jonah to G or RT and Sewell at LT will drastically improve the line. You get better at two positions by adding one player.
I am hoping the return of Reader and Waynes will help improve the D next year. There’s no doubt they just need to focus on drafting and signing linemen on both sides of the ball.
I am not optimistic that they will bring in a new HC.

Fields is terrible, I doubt we get Sewell at 3.

Sent from my BV9600 using Tapatalk

[CanadianBengal]

(12-19-2020, 09:24 PM)Benton Wrote: I get the angst and anger over this season. It's been a rough two years. And just when we looked like we were about to turn a corner, things got worse.

But I've got to admit, I'm optimistic about next season for a couple reasons.

1. Burrow. He was looking good when he went down and with the way things are, he's likely to come back around the start of the season as healthy as before.

2. Coordinators. Head coaching aside (and I realize in a few posts this is going to devolve into "we ain't going anywhere with ZT driving"), one of our biggest issues has been the coordinators. I don't see any way a few of the worst aren't gone.

But the big thing is...

3. Drafting. Our last draft was the best in a long time. And not just because we got Joe. Tee is looking good. Wilson is heading in the right direction. Akeem is going to take some time, but he's going to be decent. The rest, who knows? But the last I felt like we had four good picks by the end of the season was 2013. With another high pick and ZT's second year with the draft, I think we'll do good again.

4. FA. Last offseason we were aggressive for the first time in a long time. And this year, we're 5th or 6th overall in money available. I think we'll continue the spend (we've got a while before we have to worry about big resigning contracts).

1. Burrows is legit and if they protect him I really believe he will be the best QB this franchise has had

2. I would get rid of every coach -- not only do they need better coaches but a total culture reset --again. Four wins in two years --enough said

3. Last years draft was great -- but having the first pick helps. If you miss on the draft with the first pick and an early pick every rounds -that is a problem. The organization struggled when it came to picking in the 20's when the selections were not as obvious. That being said I still think player development is the bigger issue not just the draft. I also think the organizational strategy is too blame --ie reaching for projects when you have a playoff team - taking Ross when you have a QB who cannot throw the deep ball (Dalton), taking two OTs' to sit on the bench 

4. Jury is still out on the FA of last year but no doubt Reader was wanted by many teams, Bell is not great but was an upgrade, added a few other useful vets -- but at least you can say they tried to improve the team through FA

Burrows gives them an opportunity to become a good team but need to do somethings different in front office -starting with the coaching staff 

[*bengalfan74*]

I'm optimistic that this team could be turned around in a year and a half/two years.

But I have zero faith in ZT and Co. to do it.

[Wes Mantooth]

(12-19-2020, 09:24 PM)Benton Wrote: 2. Coordinators. Head coaching aside (and I realize in a few posts this is going to devolve into "we ain't going anywhere with ZT driving"), one of our biggest issues has been the coordinators. I don't see any way a few of the worst aren't gone.

I don't really understand this comment.  A few implies at least 3.  Are you calling for all 3 coodinators to be fired?

Not sure ST (Darrin Simmons) has really contributed that much to our failures.  In fact, he's a quality ST coach.  Regardless, firing Darrin Simmons isn't going to move the needle much in terms of confidence or optimism.

Zac is essentlally our OC.  So firing Brian Callahan isn't going to do much unless it means whoever replaces him also replaces Zac Taylor as the play caller.

It seems to me that your use of "a few" actually means "just one", Lou Aramuno.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-20-2020, 04:11 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I don't really understand this comment.  A few implies at least 3.  Are you calling for all 3 coodinators to be fired?

Not sure ST (Darrin Simmons) has really contributed that much to our failures.  In fact, he's a quality ST coach.  Regardless, firing Darrin Simmons isn't going to move the needle much in terms of confidence or optimism.

Zac is essentlally our OC.  So firing Brian Callahan isn't going to do much unless it means whoever replaces him also replaces Zac Taylor as the play caller.

It seems to me that your use of "a few" actually means "just one", Lou Aramuno.

If I were guessing, I'd say that Benton likely was meaning assistant coaches in general, rather than coordinators specifically, unless you consider the OL coach the "Running game coordinator", as is the title of several in the NFL.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(12-20-2020, 12:14 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It happens every offseason. We'll make minimal staff adjustments...bring in a tier b or c free agent. Draft some guys that the homers project as 7 quality starters. There will be threads about how our lines are our strength. How our wrs are 5 deep with talent.

Then the season starts and we suck.

Rinse. Repeat.

We have to wait and see if they continue to acquire quality free agents like they did last year. They may not have totally worked out as injuries derailed most of the defensive talent, but there was an identity in place on that side.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-20-2020, 04:48 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: We have to wait and see if they continue to acquire quality free agents like they did last year. They may not have totally worked out as injuries derailed most of the defensive talent, but there was an identity in place on that side.

Their pattern seems to be to spend when our record is extremely bad. So they may spend this year.

[*bfine32*]

I'm optimistic. We could have taken the guy that beat out Burrow at OSU to be our franchise QB after all

[THE PISTONS]

(12-20-2020, 01:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But apparently production doesn't matter to you.

You would have been happier with one of those two back up QBs (Winston, Mariota) that were ranked in the top 20 you consider "Tier A".

Good thing the Bengals nailed free agency...

We might have less wins now if they didnt.  

In all seriousness, Reader and Bell were signings I really liked. Reader was a wall for Houston. Bell in the right scheme can be highly effective.

I'm not a fan of Wayne's for that price. He's not an upgrade over Kirkpatrick. He gets beat more, but tackles better.

Alexander was also a quality signing. Bynes was a meh signing.

With who they added, including Burrow and Higgins...they should have way more wins. It has to fall on coaching. This is one offseason we cant blsme the front office.

[Bengalholic]

(12-19-2020, 09:24 PM)Benton Wrote: I get the angst and anger over this season. It's been a rough two years. And just when we looked like we were about to turn a corner, things got worse.

But I've got to admit, I'm optimistic about next season for a couple reasons.

1. Burrow. He was looking good when he went down and with the way things are, he's likely to come back around the start of the season as healthy as before.

2. Coordinators. Head coaching aside (and I realize in a few posts this is going to devolve into "we ain't going anywhere with ZT driving"), one of our biggest issues has been the coordinators. I don't see any way a few of the worst aren't gone.

But the big thing is...

3. Drafting. Our last draft was the best in a long time. And not just because we got Joe. Tee is looking good. Wilson is heading in the right direction. Akeem is going to take some time, but he's going to be decent. The rest, who knows? But the last I felt like we had four good picks by the end of the season was 2013. With another high pick and ZT's second year with the draft, I think we'll do good again.

4. FA. Last offseason we were aggressive for the first time in a long time. And this year, we're 5th or 6th overall in money available. I think we'll continue the spend (we've got a while before we have to worry about big resigning contracts).

For me, it's hard to say 'head coaching aside' when talking about replacing coordinators because the HC is also the OC, and he's been very emphatic that he'll continue to call the plays. When you're as young and inexperienced as Zac, and have failed to the extent he has, the stubbornness and refusal to try another approach is pretty damn concerning and doesn't exactly give me confidence in his management skills...along with a number of his other decisions.

Then you look at DC. They talked to established guys like Del Rio and Capers, but both said not thanks. Grantham used them to leverage a new deal with Florida. It continued to go downhill from there and we ended up with Lou. My concern is that Zac had trouble landing a quality candidate for DC when he was fresh of SB and had no record. How many experienced DC's are going to want to join a 4-27-1 (potentially) coach?
It seems likely it will be another unproven guy who's just looking for a shot at DC. 

I also think there's a chance he would keep Turner, who's pretty much family to him. His commitment to Turner's evaluations and recommendations has led to an extremely weird dedication to guys like Jordan and Hart. You talked about the money they spent in free agency, and I agree it was good to see them spend for a change. The problem was the 'plan' or direction, which again makes me call Zac's decision making into question. Mike said they gave Zac 'his way' so I have to believe it was Zac's call on who they went after. The fact that they spent 7% of the money on the o-line, after years of struggles there and having just taken a potential franchise QB was a complete head scratcher for me, to say the least. IMO, it was an ass backwards approach. 

IDK, when it comes to the possibility of Zac being back for a 3rd season, I just haven't seen much from him that inspires confidence or even demonstrates that he actually knows what he's doing / has any real direction other than a few catchphrases. I didn't mean for my post to be so much about Zac, but it's hard to talk about the staff, the team, etc without mentioning how historically bad he's been and the fact he's the guy we have to ultimately have confidence in if he's brought back. The fact is that no HC in the SB era has ever won 4 games of less in their 1st 2 seasons and survived more than halfway through a 3rd. Zero. So, bringing Zac back (assuming they do) seems like they're just delaying the inevitable.

[Benton]

(12-20-2020, 01:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If you're going by that list then I don't know what to tell you.

James Williams and Marcus Mariota top 15 but Bridgewater is not.

Ha Ha Clinton-Dix above Leonard Williams? Dix got cut in training camp.

Eric Ebron over DERRICK HENRY. 

38 year old Cameron Wake over 26 year old Bud Dupree.

I could go on. Bottom line is Reeder and Waynes were 2 of the best (if not the best) FAs in their position. 

Dupree didn't turn out to be the player I thought he would be, but I'd still love to have the guy on our roster. And way more than wake. Is he even playing now?

[Benton]

(12-20-2020, 05:20 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: For me, it's hard to say 'head coaching aside' when talking about replacing coordinators because the HC is also the OC, and he's been very emphatic that he'll continue to call the plays. When you're as young and inexperienced as Zac, and have failed to the extent he has, the stubbornness and refusal to try another approach is pretty damn concerning and doesn't exactly give me confidence in his management skills...along with a number of his other decisions.

Then you look at DC. They talked to established guys like Del Rio and Capers, but both said not thanks. Grantham used them to leverage a new deal with Florida. It continued to go downhill from there and we ended up with Lou. My concern is that Zac had trouble landing a quality candidate for DC when he was fresh of SB and had no record. How many experienced DC's are going to want to join a 4-27-1 (potentially) coach?
It seems likely it will be another unproven guy who's just looking for a shot at DC. 

I also think there's a chance he would keep Turner, who's pretty much family to him. His commitment to Turner's evaluations and recommendations has led to an extremely weird dedication to guys like Jordan and Hart. You talked about the money they spent in free agency, and I agree it was good to see them spend for a change. The problem was the 'plan' or direction, which again makes me call Zac's decision making into question. Mike said they gave Zac 'his way' so I have to believe it was Zac's call on who they went after. The fact that they spent 7% of the money on the o-line, after years of struggles there and having just taken a potential franchise QB was a complete head scratcher for me, to say the least. IMO, it was an ass backwards approach. 

IDK, when it comes to the possibility of Zac being back for a 3rd season, I just haven't seen much from him that inspires confidence or even demonstrates that he actually knows what he's doing / has any real direction other than a few catchphrases. I didn't mean for my post to be so much about Zac, but it's hard to talk about the staff, the team, etc without mentioning how historically bad he's been and the fact he's the guy we have to ultimately have confidence in if he's brought back. The fact is that no HC in the SB era has ever won 4 games of less in their 1st 2 seasons and survived more than halfway through a 3rd. Zero. So, bringing Zac back (assuming they do) seems like they're just delaying the inevitable.

The dc has been an issue and probably will be but I'm hopeful.

I think to get a decent one, were going to have to either throw money and picks at it and say 'look, here's all the options you've got, you're in charge of that side.' I think that would help bring in someone decent. Or we've got to go the unconventional route, which we did with gruden. People kind of scoffed at the move, but the guy was a good OC, good enough to get a hc gig.

But I'm good if they don't bring back ZT. He hasn't shown anything special. I do feel like the roster has though, maybe in spite of him

[THE PISTONS]

(12-20-2020, 06:44 PM)Benton Wrote: The dc has been an issue and probably will be but I'm hopeful.

I think to get a decent one, were going to have to either throw money and picks at it and say 'look, here's all the options you've got, you're in charge of that side.' I think that would help bring in someone decent. Or we've got to go the unconventional route, which we did with gruden. People kind of scoffed at the move, but the guy was a good OC, good enough to get a hc gig.

But I'm good if they don't bring back ZT. He hasn't shown anything special. I do feel like the roster has though, maybe in spite of him

I feel like that's a fair assessment. It's weird. On Twitter I read a lot of praise for Lou and the D.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-20-2020, 08:07 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I feel like that's a fair assessment. It's weird. On Twitter I read a lot of praise for Lou and the D.

In spite of all the injuries, the defense has continued to play hard.  They have kept the team in most games, until the offense just goes completely flatline.

[Bronxbengal]

I’m optimistic if there isn’t a new coaching staff this team will suck again in 2021.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[THE PISTONS]

Cardinals at 8 wins 2 years after Kingsbury hired.

Good game, Hurts.
Awesome to see the Cardinals hit 8 wins a year after picking number one overall.

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) December 21, 2020

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[THE PISTONS]

(12-20-2020, 08:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: In spite of all the injuries, the defense has continued to play hard.  They have kept the team in most games, until the offense just goes completely flatline.

Irs weird...when the offense is good...the defense is bad. And vice versa.