Props to our return men

[fredtoast]

Brandon Wilson is 5th in the league in kick off return average (27.0 avg)...Last year Wilson lead the entire league with a 31.3 average.


Alex Erickson is 6th in the league in punt return average (9.8 avg)....This is Erickson's second season in the top ten in punt return average (8th in '18). He has also twice finished in the top FIVE in kick off return average (2nd in '15, 5th in '18)

[GreenCornBengal]

Simmons is a good coach, much of the return men’s success can be attributed to good blocking.

IIRC Brandon Tate usually was towards the top of the list in punt return avg as well... this leads me to believe that anyone we put back there will do decently.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-30-2020, 01:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Brandon Wilson is 5th in the league in kick off return average (27.0 avg)...Last year Wilson lead the entire league with a 31.3 average.


Alex Erickson is 6th in the league in punt return average (9.8 avg)....This is Erickson's second season in the top ten in punt return average (8th in '18).  He has also twice finished in the top FIVE in kick off return average (2nd in '15, 5th in '18)

Props to the best coach on the team:  Darrin Simmons.  The guy gets whatever is left over and makes the absolute most out of it.  

[Sled21]

(12-30-2020, 01:48 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Simmons is a good coach, much of the return men’s success can be attributed to good blocking.

IIRC Brandon Tate usually was towards the top of the list in punt return avg as well... this leads me to believe that anyone we put back there will do decently.

Wanna bet? You have to have a certain willingness to take big hits to return punts.

[GreenCornBengal]

(12-30-2020, 02:02 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Wanna bet? You have to have a certain willingness to take big hits to return punts.

Did you think I meant fat randy or something?

Wilson, Phillips, Gio, etc. would have above avg return yards because the blocking is good. It’s not like Tate and Erickson were making a ton of people miss...

[fredtoast]

(12-30-2020, 01:48 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: . this leads me to believe that anyone we put back there will do decently.

You could be on to something here.

Since 2000 only 9 players have at least 10 punt returns for the Bengals.  Erickson's average (7.9) is only 6th among those 9.

Adam Jones finished in the top 10 in punt return average 2 times while with the Bengals ('12 and '14).  He would have been great returning punts for any team.  But Quan Cosby finished 4th in the league as a Bengal in '09 and I don't consider him an elite return talent.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-30-2020, 02:31 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Did you think I meant fat randy or something?

Wilson, Phillips, Gio, etc. would have above avg return yards because the blocking is good. It’s not like Tate and Erickson were making a ton of people miss...

Hold on for one more day.

[No-huddle Joe]

(12-30-2020, 01:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Brandon Wilson is 5th in the league in kick off return average (27.0 avg)...Last year Wilson lead the entire league with a 31.3 average.


Alex Erickson is 6th in the league in punt return average (9.8 avg)....This is Erickson's second season in the top ten in punt return average (8th in '18).  He has also twice finished in the top FIVE in kick off return average (2nd in '15, 5th in '18)

And if not for a couple of dumb penalties, he would probably be averaging more than 27.0.  I have seen a couple of his big returns called back this year.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Wilson is a stud and I think Erickson is alright, he has muffed some punts though and has hurt us especially in the first
Steeler game. As GCB said Simmons is a good coach, our best and honestly I would be for him moving to HC over keeping
Taylor even if it is not my ideal scenario. At least Simmons is very good at what he does, more than I can say for Zac over
their individual careers.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-30-2020, 02:54 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hold on for one more day.

The blonde is hot. Hit.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(12-30-2020, 01:48 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Simmons is a good coach, much of the return men’s success can be attributed to good blocking.

IIRC Brandon Tate usually was towards the top of the list in punt return avg as well... this leads me to believe that anyone we put back there will do decently.

Makes me think that the Bengals are conservative and call for a fair catch and so only run when there are huge gaping holes ahead.

(Does anyone have the percentages for how many were returned versus caught fair?)

[reuben.ahmed]

why does the eye test say alex erickson sucks though? Do other teams suck so much worse?

[GreenCornBengal]

(12-30-2020, 05:05 PM)TJHoushmandzadehs Shiny Shoes Wrote: Makes me think that the Bengals are conservative and call for a fair catch and so only run when there are huge gaping holes ahead.

(Does anyone have the percentages for how many were returned versus caught fair?)

That’s an interesting observation and I buy what you’re selling. I’m not sure where to find those stats unfortunately.

[KillerGoose]

(12-30-2020, 07:52 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: why does the eye test say alex erickson sucks though? Do other teams suck so much worse?

I wonder how much of it has to do with the blocking on returns rather than Ericksons ability as a return man. He isn’t a very dynamic returner but he seems to get consistent yardage when he does return it. There just isn’t much wiggle to him. He’s not a threat to score a TD on a return, just get a little better position.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-30-2020, 08:17 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I wonder how much of it has to do with the blocking on returns rather than Ericksons ability as a return man. He isn’t a very dynamic returner but he seems to get consistent yardage when he does return it. There just isn’t much wiggle to him. He’s not a threat to score a TD on a return, just get a little better position.

Erickson looked good against the Texans, I will give him that. But it was as a Receiver, not a Punt Returner.

He was alright as a PR.

[fredtoast]

(12-30-2020, 07:52 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: why does the eye test say alex erickson sucks though? 

Implicit bias.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

@FredToast - you're usually good at finding the more obscure stats. How do the Bengals compare to the rest of the league in fair catches v returns?

[fredtoast]

(12-31-2020, 01:00 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: @FredToast - you're usually good at finding the more obscure stats. How do the Bengals compare to the rest of the league in fair catches v returns?

I was looking but have not found the exact stats.  From what I have found it is hard to tell how the Bengals rank.  

NFL teams average 23 returns and 16 FC, but since since they also average 55 punts it is impossible to come up with a "fair catch percentage" because apparently almost 30% of punts are touchbacks, out-of-bounds, or downed by the cover team.

Bengals have 21 returns and 20 fair catches.  On the extremes you have the Jets with only 10 returns and 26 FC and the Dolphins with 31 returns and only 9 FC.  Only 7 teams have more FC than returns.  So it appears that the Bengals are toward the more conservative end of the spectrum, but closer to the middle than an extreme.

[Wes Mantooth]

Fwiw, these stats used are using a qualifier (min amount of returns). Not sure which site he pulled them from, but for Punt Returns it's usually 20.

Why is this important? Well, you might think that he (Erickson) is 6th out of 32, which is pretty impressive. But that's not the case. The players who actually qualify by having at least X amount of returns usually ranges between 8-20 (Low and high end are extremes)

This year, using the qualifier on PFR, there are only 14 players who meet this mark. So he ranks 6th out of 14 in yards per return. That's pretty average.

See here. (Sort by YPR to see rankings) https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/returns.htm

So just remember that. 6th of 14, not 6th out of 32. If you remove the qualifier, and sort by all punt returners he actually ranks 22nd.

Throw in his fumbles, where he's at or near the top, and he's a below average returner. These stats also don't include fair catches he makes where there's room in front of him, and he elects to signal.

Alex Erickson isn't a good punt returner. Don't let Fred's lack of clarification fool you into how these numbers are calculated and sorted.

[Wes Mantooth]

(12-31-2020, 12:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Implicit bias.

No, it's called actually watching him play and not relying on Pro Football reference and a sorted category of 14 eligible returners to base your entire opinion.

His fumbles these last two years alone and make him a shitty returner.  The amount of times he's put the ball on the ground is obscene.  

Throw in the fair catches when he's got tons of room and it makes questioning his overall ability as a returner come into play even more.

Anybody who actually watches the guy can tell you he's not that great.  He's not even average these past two seasons.  And being 6th out of 14 isn't going to erase fumbling problems and boneheaded decisions.