Recent history says keeping Zac is a mistake

[SuperBowlBound!]

(12-30-2020, 05:35 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: It's no surprise, but I think ZT is gonna make a believer outta ya'll next year.  It takes more than one year to fix the BS that he started with.  This city is broken in terms of professional sports.  It's gonna take some work.  We knew that before, we need to know that now.

I second this thought! Let the man have time to get it done. This year was a very difficult year for a team that really needed a pre season. I also like that Burrow likes him and his team plays hard for him. Not like we were getting blown out every game.

[Sled21]

(12-30-2020, 10:06 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I second this thought! Let the man have time to get it done. This year was a very difficult year for a team that really needed a pre season. I also like that Burrow likes him and his team plays hard for him. Not like we were getting blown out every game.

Yep, everyone knows where I stand on it, I still think Taylor will be the guy that takes us back to the Super Bowl, it's just going to take time. But, he has to produce at least 9 wins next year

[SuperBowlBound!]

(12-30-2020, 05:55 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: Flores is a hell of a coach, and I don't even wanna argue that one.  Ha!  

But I would say I thought Zac built a hell of a competitive team in the offseason.  His plan even made sense, which was to build a defense that would stop the run and stop missing tackles, and then he built an offense (including thru the draft) that would be able to attack.  

Even with the injuries aside, for me ZT passed the eye test in terms of being a fan on the couch watching the Bengals this year.  Prior to Burrow going down, I was actually not ready to turn it off at halftime, I was not slumped in my couch seat just reading my phone with it on in the background, I was watching the Bengals play competitive football!  

And no, I am not defending ZT for an 8-8 season or anything like that.  I think he will take us to the promised land.  Sure, it's faith and it certainly ain't based on his W/L stats, but I just like what I've seen and do believe we're in for some brighter days ahead.  

If next year is a dud, you'll see me at the front gates of the castle with a pitchfork, first in line :) 

I do like Flores as a coach but he has been lucky this year with injuries. He has 3 guys on IR. Davon Godchaux (NT) makes 650K a year, Vince Biegel (OLB) has a 1 year contract making 2,133,000 and Preston Williams (WR) making 588,000 a year. Coaching is a lot easier when you are coaching the same guys every week. None of the Miami Dolphins injuries were to guys in their top 40 salary commitments to. Zak Taylor and his staff have 10 players out for the year. 6 out of their top 10 salary commitments have not played most of the year. Some weeks I was not sure who they would even have to fill in for all of the injured players. Very tough year for all of the NFL especially teams who have lost a lot players to injuries. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-30-2020, 09:53 PM)Nately120 Wrote: ZT and Adam Gase have both clearly "gotten it" in these past few weeks and will be vying for the AFC Championship in 2021.  Book it.*








*don't book it



On a related note, we've lost a bunch of close games and the Chiefs have managed to go 14-1 by winning 7 close games.  Does anyone think we are a few "lucky bounces" away from being on their level?  Ok, I sound like a bitter jerk now.  ZT was coming back next year anyways, may as well have some wins to go with the already made decision.

Yes sir. Good teams with good coaches win close games, don't make excuses for losing them.

[Sled21]

(12-30-2020, 10:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes sir. Good teams with good coaches win close games, don't make excuses for losing them.

And coaches, like players, imrove with time. Players tend to hit their groove in the 3rd year. Not sure the timeline for coaches, but Taylor is definitely drafting well and his play calling is getting better.

[SuperBowlBound!]

(12-30-2020, 10:27 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I do like Flores as a coach but he has been lucky this year with injuries. He has 3 guys on IR. Davon Godchaux (NT) makes 650K a year, Vince Biegel (OLB) has a 1 year contract making 2,133,000 and Preston Williams (WR) making 588,000 a year. Coaching is a lot easier when you are coaching the same guys every week. None of the Miami Dolphins injuries were to guys in their top 40 salary commitments to. Zak Taylor and his staff have 10 players out for the year. 6 out of their top 10 salary commitments have not played most of the year. Some weeks I was not sure who they would even have to fill in for all of the injured players. Very tough year for all of the NFL especially teams who have lost a lot players to injuries. 

The only other team with as many injuries to their top 10 existing contracts is ironically the Jacksonville Jaguars.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-30-2020, 06:25 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: The 5 win stat is a little dicey for me as we surely would have had 6-7 wins if Burrow hand't gotten hurt, but either way, I don't know that keeping Taylor is a great idea.

The only reason he is going to stay is because Burrow looked great as rookie and the team really plays hard for him.  If he can fix his staff, he might be a pretty good coach

Maybe Zac chucks it 55 times versus the Steelers and we lose. Same with the Texans game.

Not as easy as thinking we win the same games plus more.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-30-2020, 08:11 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Even if you bump it to 6 wins or less in the first 2 years, since 2000, 15 of the 24 coaches didn't make it past year 3. Of the 9 who did, 6 didn't make it past a 4th. Turner had 7 (3 winning years), Schwartz had 5 (1 winning year) and Kyle Shanahan.

The overall results are just aren't good at all when a coach starts out with such a bad record in the last 20 years.

This is the Bengals...6-10 in year 3 probably gets him another year if some of those wins are late in the year.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-30-2020, 09:53 PM)Nately120 Wrote: ZT and Adam Gase have both clearly "gotten it" in these past few weeks and will be vying for the AFC Championship in 2021.  Book it.*








*don't book it



On a related note, we've lost a bunch of close games and the Chiefs have managed to go 14-1 by winning 7 close games.  Does anyone think we are a few "lucky bounces" away from being on their level?  Ok, I sound like a bitter jerk now.  ZT was coming back next year anyways, may as well have some wins to go with the already made decision.

Yeah the Chiefs were a little luck away from being 7-8 with Reid talking about how close they were.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-30-2020, 10:38 PM)Sled21 Wrote: And coaches, like players, imrove with time. Players tend to hit their groove in the 3rd year. Not sure the timeline for coaches, but Taylor is definitely drafting well and his play calling is getting better.

If we keep Zac I sure hope this is the case but what Holic just shown sure doesn't make it look likely Sled.

Very good Drafting though since ZT got here except for the Finley pick have to admit.

Love the Jonah, Pratt, Burrow, Higgins, Wilson, ADG, Adeniji picks for damn sure. Sample isn't as bad as some say either.

Of course everyone would of rather had DK Metcalf, but Sample is decent.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-30-2020, 10:06 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I second this thought! Let the man have time to get it done. This year was a very difficult year for a team that really needed a pre season. I also like that Burrow likes him and his team plays hard for him. Not like we were getting blown out every game.

What qb wouldnt like a coach that throws 50 times a game. Zac calls plays like Madden.

Doesnt mean it's the right approach to win.

[*Nately120*]

(12-30-2020, 10:38 PM)Sled21 Wrote: And coaches, like players, imrove with time. Players tend to hit their groove in the 3rd year. Not sure the timeline for coaches, but Taylor is definitely drafting well and his play calling is getting better.

If coaches improve with time we might be in trouble because despite having no pre-season, losing their best WR to injury, and having issues related to covid the Browns managed to win 10+ games with a rookie HC.  That's the issue with playing the waiting game with ZT.  We are the odd-man out any way you slice it.

Ravens/Harbaugh
12 years as HC - 1 SB ring
Regular season: 127–79 (.617)
Postseason: 10–7 (.588)
Career: 137–86 (.614)

Steelers/Tomlin
13 years as HC - 1 SB ring
Regular season: 145–77–1 (.652)
Postseason: 8–7 (.533)
Career: 153–84–1 (.645)

Browns/Stefanski
1st year as HC
Regular season: 10–5 (.667)
Postseason: TBD probably 0-1

Bengals/ZT
2 years as HC
Regular season: 6–24–1 (.210)
Postseason: 0-0


It was easier to play the "wait and see" game when we at least had the Browns flopping with Fatty Kitchens and Hue.  Now that they've rebooted their team with a rookie HC we have one team that turned on a dime and two teams that have had the same HC for over a decade and have championships and winning records in the regular and post season.  No one else in this division had to wait 3+ years for their HC to "get it" so why did we?  Is Stefanski going to improve? If so the Browns could give us trouble for a long time.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-30-2020, 10:38 PM)Sled21 Wrote: And coaches, like players, imrove with time. Players tend to hit their groove in the 3rd year. Not sure the timeline for coaches, but Taylor is definitely drafting well and his play calling is getting better.

Ridiculous. Coaches improve like players. Totally ridiculous.

Good coaches are generally good coaches from the start and dont take a 6 win team to a 2 win team.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-30-2020, 10:42 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: The only other team with as many injuries to their top 10 existing contracts is ironically the Jacksonville Jaguars.

What you're missing is we sucked when guys like Burrow and Reader were healthy. It's not like we started well then injuries derailed the year.

Injuries are an excuse. AJ and Jonah were the excuses last year.

[GreenCornBengal]

I wish we knew more about Zac’s contribution to the signings of Dunlap, Atkins and Green. If he pushed for it, then he is a moron. If they reluctantly wrote up those contracts against ZTs suggestions/wishes then I still have faith in the guy. He’s been hamstrung to start his coaching career.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-30-2020, 10:56 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If coaches improve with time we might be in trouble because despite having no pre-season, losing their best WR to injury, and having issues related to covid the Browns managed to win 10+ games with a rookie HC.  That's the issue with playing the waiting game with ZT.  We are the odd-man out any way you slice it.

Ravens/Harbaugh
12 years as HC - 1 SB ring
Regular season: 127–79 (.617)
Postseason: 10–7 (.588)
Career: 137–86 (.614)

Steelers/Tomlin
13 years as HC - 1 SB ring
Regular season: 145–77–1 (.652)
Postseason: 8–7 (.533)
Career: 153–84–1 (.645)

Browns/Stefanski
1st year as HC
Regular season: 10–5 (.667)
Postseason: TBD probably 0-1

Bengals/ZT
2 years as HC
Regular season: 6–24–1 (.210)
Postseason: 0-0


It was easier to play the "wait and see" game when we at least had the Browns flopping with Fatty Kitchens and Hue.  Now that they've rebooted their team with a rookie HC we have one team that turned on a dime and two teams that have had the same HC for over a decade and have championships and winning records in the regular and post season.  No one else in this division had to wait 3+ years for their HC to "get it" so why did we?  Is Stefanski going to improve?  If so the Browns could give us trouble for a long time.

Dont tell him how the Steelers are 12-3 either with 2 really good LBs hurt too.

We're the only team with injuries and only our coaches improve! Year 3 baby! Zac is entering his prime!!!

[THE PISTONS]

(12-30-2020, 11:04 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I wish we knew more about Zac’s contribution to the signings of Dunlap, Atkins and Green. If he pushed for it, then he is a moron. If they reluctantly wrote up those contracts against ZTs suggestions/wishes then I still have faith in the guy. He’s been hamstrung to start his coaching career.

How about when we signed BW Webb, Wynn, and a bunch of scrub free agents from the coaches former teams? Think that had a hand in that?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-30-2020, 10:56 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If coaches improve with time we might be in trouble because despite having no pre-season, losing their best WR to injury, and having issues related to covid the Browns managed to win 10+ games with a rookie HC.  That's the issue with playing the waiting game with ZT.  We are the odd-man out any way you slice it.

Ravens/Harbaugh
12 years as HC - 1 SB ring
Regular season: 127–79 (.617)
Postseason: 10–7 (.588)
Career: 137–86 (.614)

Steelers/Tomlin
13 years as HC - 1 SB ring
Regular season: 145–77–1 (.652)
Postseason: 8–7 (.533)
Career: 153–84–1 (.645)

Browns/Stefanski
1st year as HC
Regular season: 10–5 (.667)
Postseason: TBD probably 0-1

Bengals/ZT
2 years as HC
Regular season: 6–24–1 (.210)
Postseason: 0-0


It was easier to play the "wait and see" game when we at least had the Browns flopping with Fatty Kitchens and Hue.  Now that they've rebooted their team with a rookie HC we have one team that turned on a dime and two teams that have had the same HC for over a decade and have championships and winning records in the regular and post season.  No one else in this division had to wait 3+ years for their HC to "get it" so why did we?  Is Stefanski going to improve?  If so the Browns could give us trouble for a long time.

Reps Nately. No time to wait around while you might have the next great QB.

This coaching staff under ZT got him injured, the ones responsible need to be held as such.

We need to be at the very least be contending with all these teams with our players.

Losing close games doesn't make me feel better, wouldn't make Andy Reid feel better, not Belichick or Tomlin or Harbaugh.

[*Nately120*]

(12-30-2020, 11:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Dont tell him how the Steelers are 12-3 either with 2 really good LBs hurt too.

We're the only team with injuries and only our coaches improve! Year 3 baby! Zac is entering his prime!!!

I'm not going to mock anyone for hoping ZT can get it, particularly since it's clear he's going to be here at least 1 more year.  With that being said, the reality that we are in a division with two teams with long-term successful coaches and another team that has a 10+ win rookie HC makes it hard to look at ZT as needing more time and more like he's just not all that good.

The Browns didn't wait for Kitchens or Hue to snap out of it and get better, and their first year into hiring a guy who actually had a shot at being good has done them wonders.  We are hoping our HC can do in year 3 what the Browns did in year 1?  That's not the sort of scenario Bengals fans would have gladly accepted, I fear.

[SuperBowlBound!]

(12-30-2020, 11:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What you're missing is we sucked when guys like Burrow and Reader were healthy. It's not like we started well then injuries derailed the year.

Injuries are an excuse. AJ and Jonah were the excuses last year.

We may have started slow due to no preseason and rookie QB.

We were in almost every game. I believe we would have been 7-9 or 8-8 if we only had 2-3 injuries to similar players the Dolphins had injured.
Love to see how many games Dolphins would have won had they had injuries to 6 of their top 10 player contracts like us.