Probably at least one coaching change coming

[samhain]

(12-27-2020, 09:47 AM)Bronxbengal Wrote: I know neither of these guys and I suspect you don’t either, so there is no way you know what type of a human being either is.  Alexander is a blow hard who judges lineman on how they poor ketchup and in his spare time tries to emulate Billy Joel.  Likewise, Turner is old school and a former Marine.  He is an intense guy something snowflakes translate into being a bad human.  Both coaches are not good, except we had 20+ years witnessing Alexander’s ineptitude.  We had the right line coach but the boy wonder ZT didn’t retain him or the guy didn’t want to work for ZT.  Either way, we need to find the next line coach like we had in the 1980’s.  I can’t remember his name


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How soon hardcore fans forget that Alexander built at least two lines that were at the very least top 5 in the NFL.  Yeah, he whiffed with Fisher and Ogbuehi and killed the offense for 5 years, but that doesn't detract from the point that he's better than Turner.  How many top 5 lines has Turner coached in the league?  He sucked in Miami and his line sucks here, too.  His best credential is coaching a bunch of overrated players that became busts in the NFL when he was at A&M.

Fact:  Jim Turner isn't a fraction of the coach or evaluator of talent that Alexander was.  
For further effect, I give you exhibit A:
 
Jones/Steinbach/Braham/Williams/Anderson

and exhibit B:

Whitworth/Boling/Bodine/Zeitler/Smith. Yeah, that's 20 years of ineptitude. I'll take that kind of ineptitude all day over some ******* like Turner that basically just berates, plays favorites and cusses dudes out.

When has Turner had anything remotely approaching that level of success in either case?  But yeah, ketchup bottles and stuff.  Turner is a garbage coach that absolutely nobody not named Zac Taylor would want to coach their OL.  He's a buddy hire.  This case is made entirely without mentioning the fact that he got run out of the league for being an overall dumbass in handling his players.  F Jim Turner. He can go pretend to be R. Lee Ermey for some high school team somewhere.

[samhain]

(12-27-2020, 01:21 AM)chopperbobby Wrote: Took the cowboys not even 1/2 season with Paul. Bengals 23 years. I know the guy on moving the chains LOVE HIM.    He had some good years here.  But was kept way too long.  I don’t want him back. But mike brown don’t care about what I think.  So who dey.  None of the principal coaches will be let go.  May be line coaches.

I don't think anyone wants him back.  We just want Turner gone.  Alexander is a has been.  Turner is a never will be.  

IMO Alexander's problem is the opposite of Turner's.  Turner teaches nothing and yells and screams hoping his tough guy routine will make for better o-line play.  Alexander over-analyzes and gives players almost too much to digest.  I remember reading that he wanted all of his linemen to know every position's assignments on the line, and made them practice at several spots.  That's a bit much IMO.

Alexander's other problem was getting too cute and trying to pick altheticism over actual ability to play OL.  They got away from the prototype mammoth Bengal OL and drafted power forwards instead.  Not going to fly in the AFC North, ever.   He tried to fix a thing that wasn't broken, and he ended up losing his job for it.

[Bronxbengal]

(12-27-2020, 01:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I have a pretty good idea considering all the sexist, racist, bullying, and downright toxic behavior one has exhibited, while the worse thing you can come up with about the other is about opening ketchup bottles and playing the piano...

Oh to be a snowflake.....


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[Bronxbengal]

(12-27-2020, 02:05 PM)samhain Wrote: How soon hardcore fans forget that Alexander built at least two lines that were at the very least top 5 in the NFL.  Yeah, he whiffed with Fisher and Ogbuehi and killed the offense for 5 years, but that doesn't detract from the point that he's better than Turner.  How many top 5 lines has Turner coached in the league?  He sucked in Miami and his line sucks here, too.  His best credential is coaching a bunch of overrated players that became busts in the NFL when he was at A&M.

Fact:  Jim Turner isn't a fraction of the coach or evaluator of talent that Alexander was.  
For further effect, I give you exhibit A:
 
Jones/Steinbach/Braham/Williams/Anderson

and exhibit B:

Whitworth/Boling/Bodine/Zeitler/Smith. Yeah, that's 20 years of ineptitude. I'll take that kind of ineptitude all day over some ******* like Turner that basically just berates, plays favorites and cusses dudes out.

When has Turner had anything remotely approaching that level of success in either case?  But yeah, ketchup bottles and stuff.  Turner is a garbage coach that absolutely nobody not named Zac Taylor would want to coach their OL.  He's a buddy hire.  This case is made entirely without mentioning the fact that he got run out of the league for being an overall dumbass in handling his players.  F Jim Turner. He can go pretend to be R. Lee Ermey for some high school team somewhere.

We’re you even born during the lost decade? He was the line coach during this time and the lines were horrible. The examples you provide has more to do with Marvin Lewis tenure on choosing talent than The Piano Man coaching. I will emphasize his lines during the 90’s were putrid, just as bad as today. I see no difference between Turner and Piano Man. They both are bad, but some think Turner is the second coming of Hitler because he isn’t PC enough.


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[samhain]

(12-27-2020, 02:43 PM)Bronxbengal Wrote: We’re you even born during the lost decade?  He was the line coach during this time and the lines were horrible.  The examples you provide has more to do with Marvin Lewis tenure on choosing talent than The Piano Man coaching.  I will emphasize his lines during the 90’s were putrid, just as bad as today.  I see no difference between Turner and Piano Man.  They both are bad, but some think Turner is the second coming of Hitler because he isn’t PC enough.


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Were you?  Willie Anderson, Levi Jones and Rich Braham were all drafted or signed before Marvin set foot into the Bengals locker room.  So you're dead wrong about that line being a result of Marvin.  The 90's lines were putrid because the organization never prioritized the position group.  When they gave Alexander high draft picks, they generally were very successful.

I assume you want to disregard Alexander molding Whitworth into perhaps the best tackle in the league as well.  

You also failed to answer my question in any coherent way.  When has Jim Turner been good at coaching o-line?  What line has he coached that approached anything near what those 2 Alexander versions did?  Never in his life, that's when.  

I get that you want to call people snowflakes and whatnot, and I'm sure that's fun, but you're dude Turner sucks and shouldn't be coaching in the league.  Zimmer cussed and called people names, but guess what?  He could coach.  He had equity and reputation.  Turner cussing and berating players isn't the same because he's not good at his job.  

There's a homeless dude at the shopping center down the road.  Sometimes, he cusses and hurls insults at random cars passing by for no reason.  I bet you think he'd be an awesome o-line coach.  I guess if you don't like crap, incompetent coaches, then you're a snowflake, lol.  You should go get yourself a Jim Turner Punisher t-shirt to show your support.

[Bronxbengal]

(12-27-2020, 06:14 PM)samhain Wrote: Were you?  Willie Anderson, Levi Jones and Rich Braham were all drafted or signed before Marvin set foot into the Bengals locker room.  So you're dead wrong about that line being a result of Marvin.  The 90's lines were putrid because the organization never prioritized the position group.  When they gave Alexander high draft picks, they generally were very successful.

I assume you want to disregard Alexander molding Whitworth into perhaps the best tackle in the league as well.  

You also failed to answer my question in any coherent way.  When has Jim Turner been good at coaching o-line?  What line has he coached that approached anything near what those 2 Alexander versions did?  Never in his life, that's when.  

I get that you want to call people snowflakes and whatnot, and I'm sure that's fun, but you're dude Turner sucks and shouldn't be coaching in the league.  Zimmer cussed and called people names, but guess what?  He could coach.  He had equity and reputation.  Turner cussing and berating players isn't the same because he's not good at his job.  

There's a homeless dude at the shopping center down the road.  Sometimes, he cusses and hurls insults at random cars passing by for no reason.  I bet you think he'd be an awesome o-line coach.  I guess if you don't like crap, incompetent coaches, then you're a snowflake, lol.  You should go get yourself a Jim Turner Punisher t-shirt to show your support.

Hey, I never said Turner was a good coach. He is just as bad as Alexander. Cut the emotional outburst and freaking read. If Alexander is so good, why is he not in the NFL and couldn’t last a full season with the Cowboys. The Cowboys line hasn’t been the same since. Also, Whitworth had talent. Alexander did nothing for him.

Alexander is trash and so is Turner. They need someone like Jim McNally, but he left soon after Mikey took over the organization. Read my post

I do know that homeless person you are talking about. The good news is he does know how to pour ketchup. He and the Piano Man would get along well singing the Billy Joel classic with a bottle of Mad Dog.


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[grampahol]

(12-24-2020, 01:12 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Do you really need a "reliable source" to know that a team that has managed to win all of 5 games over 2 seasons is going to have to make at least 1 coaching change so their fanbase doesn't go completely apeshit?

What's next? 

"TylerDragon has heard from a "reliable source" that the Bengals plan on drafting both offensive and defensive players in the 2021 draft."

"TylerDragon has heard from a "reliable source" that the Bengals plan on signing at least one free agent in 2021."

"TylerDragon has heard from a "reliable source" that Bengals will release one veteran in the offseason."

Tyler Dragon has a reliable source that says Mike Brown is old and not very good at running a football team.. Shocking, I know, but someone has to be reliably a source. ..

[XenoMorph]

(12-24-2020, 03:50 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This has to be Jim Turner, no?

Recording #BBP and @TheTylerDragon says he has heard from a reliable source the Bengals will have at least one coaching change on the staff this offseason. #Bengals

— Lindsay Patterson (@LndsPatterson) December 24, 2020

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

thats about 4 too few

[XenoMorph]

(12-27-2020, 01:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I have a pretty good idea considering all the sexist, racist, bullying, and downright toxic behavior one has exhibited, while the worse thing you can come up with about the other is about opening ketchup bottles and playing the piano...

these backup OL guys been playing very well here lately...  

Is that not turners doing?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 11:45 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: these backup OL guys been playing very well here lately...  

Is that not turners doing?

A few games does not make up for 2 seasons worth of ineptitude. People seem to have short memories, and are forgetting just how badly or franchise QB was getting abused weekly for 10 games. And how abysmal the running game has been all season. One game against a terrible Houston team is too little too late.

[XenoMorph]

(12-28-2020, 11:52 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: A few games does not make up for 2 seasons worth of ineptitude. People seem to have short memories, and are forgetting just how badly or franchise QB was getting abused weekly for 10 games. And how abysmal the running game has been all season. One game against a terrible Houston team is too little too late.

but people are using these last 2 game to save the other coaches.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 12:18 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: but people are using these last 2 game to save the other coaches.

Are they? I’ve mostly seen people saying they think ZT was safe no matter what.

[CanadianBengal]

(12-24-2020, 12:37 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: His unit has certainly sucked, but I don’t think that would appease fans as much as Turner.

Not sure the family makes moves to appease the fanbase. 

[Frank Booth]

(12-27-2020, 01:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I have a pretty good idea considering all the sexist, racist, bullying, and downright toxic behavior one has exhibited

Ew

Are you some trustfund girl who lives in Williamsburg?

[samhain]

(12-31-2020, 12:23 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Ew

Are you some trustfund girl who lives in Williamsburg?

For me it has less to do with what Turner did at previous jobs that wasn't football related than what it says to hire a "disaster artist", as one article put it, when no other team would.  If you want non-politically charged indictment of his crap character, then just look at his criticism of Eric McCoy when he left A&M early, only to leave himself almost immediately after for the Bengals job.  He's a piece of shit all around, and again, he sucks at his job.  

If you're an asshole, but you can coach the hell out of some o-lnemen, then you're a good OL coach.  If not, then you're just an asshole that's wasting everyone's time and hurting the franchise.  

Why does this team have to get the bottom of the barrel hire?  Why do we have to deal with the radioactive loser?  Don't you think we could do better than guy that nobody else would touch?

And honestly, if his character was the thing that got him run out of Cincinnati and brought in a superior replacement, then I'm good with that, too.

[samhain]

(12-28-2020, 11:45 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: these backup OL guys been playing very well here lately...  

Is that not turners doing?

2 of those backups are NFL veterans who need little coaching to play to the level they have for their entire careers.  

They're also running the ball a lot more, which generally makes an o-line look a lot better.  Let Brandon Allen sling it at the rate Burrow was and see if he doesn't get blasted in similar fashion with no run game to keep defenses honest.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-31-2020, 12:23 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Ew

Are you some trustfund girl who lives in Williamsburg?

Yep. You got me.

[samhain]

(12-31-2020, 01:01 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yep. You got me.

Bro, you need to get hip to the warrior culture, lol.

[Joelist]

I really hope Turner goes.

Who exactly has he coached up? The main reason our OL got better was Spain dropped out of the sky and XSF came back from injury. What do they have in common? Vets who were already coached up by other teams. Fred Johnson likewise was coached up outside the club and except for Adeniji the current group predate Turner.

Under Turner Michael Jordan has actually gotten worse over time. Calhoun was so bad he only lasted a few snaps. ALL of our linemen need training in proper technique badly.

This is not about Turner's off field stuff - he sucks as a line coach period.

[samhain]

(12-31-2020, 01:14 AM)Joelist Wrote: I really hope Turner goes.

Who exactly has he coached up? The main reason our OL got better was Spain dropped out of the sky and XSF came back from injury. What do they have in common? Vets who were already coached up by other teams. Fred Johnson likewise was coached up outside the club and except for Adeniji the current group predate Turner.

Under Turner Michael Jordan has actually gotten worse over time. Calhoun was so bad he only lasted a few snaps. ALL of our linemen need training in proper technique badly.

This is not about Turner's off field stuff - he sucks as a line coach period.

The line looks okay now because of the run game.  Does anyone think that when Burrow returns, they will learn their lesson and run the ball more? I just don't see it.  Whoever is coaching or playing on the line had better be able to gear things toward an extremely pass-heavy offense.  When that time comes, does anyone expect Jim Turner to be able to coach these guys up to be better pass blockers than they were this season?  I don't think he's capable.  He's here because of his connections, nothing more.