The Damage Isn't Done Just Yet

[Wes Mantooth]

So, Mike Brown has decided to keep Zac Taylor. A lot of people are, understandably, not very happy. I'm certainly not either. (Shocker, I know.)

I don't think I'm out of line when I say that the overwhelming majority of fans wanted Zac Taylor gone. I think this number is well over 90%. That's just the God's honest truth. So the Bengals chose not to cave to popular demand and they've ignored customer dissatisfaction.

Well, lets see what else they have in store for their fanbase. Remember, just because Zac Taylor is staying doesn't mean they're still aren't significant moves they could make. There are things they could do that would not only show fans they recognize their mistakes, but that they themseleves know they need to get much, much better.

What am I talking about?

-Duke Tobin (This is the big one)
-Scouting Department
-OC/DC

See, I think a lot of people feel like the Bengals just took the biggest dump on their fans by retaining Taylor. And while that move is certainly unpopular they may not be done.

Imagine going 6-25 over two years and keeping every thing the same outside of a few position coaches. It's one thing to not make a change at HC, but it's another entirely to not make any significant changes at all.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. But if they elect to keep both Taylor and Tobin then I'm not sure they could say any more clearly that they could give two shits about what any of us think, nor do they ever intend on actually trying to win.

Even a Aranumo firing does little to move the needle for me. If they brought both a new OC and DC then that would help a little. If they coupled an Aramumo firing with a beefed up scouting department then that would too. Both of these would lessen the sting of a Taylor/Tobin retainment.

But they better do something big if they intend on earning any confidence whatsoever. I don't think they will, but I just wanted to point out that they may not be done in their ineptitude.

[TecmoBengals]

I don't see any significant changes occurring. It will be more of the same with the Brown family. This is '90s Bungles all over again.

[fredtoast]

I think PBS will be empty next year even if the replace both the OC and DC. Fans just will not accept brining Taylor back.

Only possible hope would be to sign big name proven coordinators but there is no way in hell that is happening.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-04-2021, 02:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think PBS will be empty next year even if the replace both the OC and DC.  Fans just will not accept brining Taylor back.

Only possible hope would be to sign big name proven coordinators but there is no way in hell that is happening.

It will be interesting to see if there is any "pent up demand" for live sporting events post-COVID.  I doubt it.  The at-home experience is just too good.  I think a smattering of fans will go because it is their status quo and a few will go because of Burrow, but even if they fired ZT, brought in Urban Meyer, signed FA like Thuney and Brandin Cooks, had an amazing draft, I STILL don't think there would be many fans in the stands.

If I were tasked with increasing attendance, I would really have no idea how to go about getting fans to come back at this point.  Even if they were winning and 10-0, I don't think games would sell out.  People just don't care to go anymore.  

[Big Boss]

(01-04-2021, 02:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think PBS will be empty next year even if the replace both the OC and DC.  Fans just will not accept brining Taylor back.

Only possible hope would be to sign big name proven coordinators but there is no way in hell that is happening.

Yep. This front office is delusional if they think Taylor is going to completely turn it around with some new assistant coaches.  He will fail again this upcoming season, and we'll be right back here one year from now having the exact same conversation about him.  They're delaying the inevitable and wasting everybody's time.

Speaking of new assistants, good luck selling these jobs to any coaches worth a damn.

[impactplaya]

Im curious if the Bengals start off September
0 and 4 is Taylor retained or fired at that point.

Watching this franchise is like watching Gilligans Island
And ZT is.Gilligan.

Do they have a plan B if ZT flounders again?

[masterpanthera_t]

I can s stomach the decision to keep Taylor if a bunch of other things were different about the organization. The insistence on keeping the same management structure for thirty years in the face of unprecedented failure is what boggles the mind and rankles the fan base. We would be happy if they started in ownership but just hired more competent folks to run the football side of things. Mike still doesn't realize that he could not possibly ask for a more patient fan base considering what he's subjected upon them. In the short and long run, his insistence on being in denial of the fact that he and his family are not good at football management is dumbfounding. Anybody can be unlucky for a short term, but to be this unsuccessful for thirty years and to still refuse to see it is both selfish and delusional.

At the end of the day I have to wonder if we the fans are also becoming delusional by supporting this team year after year. I don't expect them to win next year, but I will be pleasantly surprised if they do.

[GodFather]

(01-04-2021, 02:11 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: So, Mike Brown has decided to keep Zac Taylor.  A lot of people are, understandably, not very happy.  I'm certainly not either. (Shocker, I know.)

I don't think I'm out of line when I say that the overwhelming majority of fans wanted Zac Taylor gone.  I think this number is well over 90%.  That's just the God's honest truth.  So the Bengals chose not to cave to popular demand and they've ignored customer dissatisfaction.

Well, lets see what else they have in store for their fanbase.  Remember, just because Zac Taylor is staying doesn't mean they're still aren't significant moves they could make.  There are things they could do that would not only show fans they recognize their mistakes, but that they themseleves know they need to get much, much better.

What am I talking about?

-Duke Tobin (This is the big one)
-Scouting Department
-OC/DC

See, I think a lot of people feel like the Bengals just took the biggest dump on their fans by retaining Taylor.  And while that move is certainly unpopular they may not be done.

Imagine going 6-25 over two years and keeping every thing the same outside of a few position coaches.  It's one thing to not make a change at HC, but it's another entirely to not make any significant changes at all.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.  But if they elect to keep both Taylor and Tobin then I'm not sure they could say any more clearly that they could give two shits about what any of us think, nor do they ever intend on actually trying to win.  

Even a Aranumo firing does little to move the needle for me.  If they brought both a new OC and DC then that would help a little.  If they coupled an Aramumo firing with a beefed up scouting department then that would too.  Both of these would lessen the sting of a Taylor/Tobin retainment.

But they better do something big if they intend on earning any confidence whatsoever.  I don't think they will, but I just wanted to point out that they may not be done in their ineptitude.

We know that won't happen. Its the Bengals, I think the best we could ask for was letting go of Turner and Aranumo. 50% of the way there. If Lou stays, this team wont win more than 6 games next year no matter what happens this offseason. The bar is set so low when it comes to the front office. I don't disagree with what you're saying one bit, its just not realistic in any way.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-04-2021, 02:40 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Im curious if the Bengals start off September
0 and 4 is Taylor retained or fired at that point.

Watching this franchise is like watching Gilligans Island
And ZT is.Gilligan.

Do they have a plan B if ZT flounders again?

You mean in the middle of the season, or after the season?
I would think Taylor needs to "put up or shut up" in 2021 to keep his job beyond that.
About the only things I can see happening in regards to moving on from him midseason if things aren't going well would be to make Simmons interim HC or possibly the OC/DC if they happen to bring in one with previous HC experience.

[impactplaya]

(01-04-2021, 03:19 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You mean in the middle of the season, or after the season?
I would think Taylor needs to "put up or shut up" in 2021 to keep his job beyond that.
About the only things I can see happening in regards to moving on from him midseason if things aren't going well would be to make Simmons interim HC or possibly the OC/DC if they happen to bring in one with previous HC experience.

I think.a 0 and 4 start gets him.fired

[*ochocincos*]

(01-04-2021, 03:29 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I think.a 0 and 4 start gets him.fired

The schedule should be worrisome.
They play the AFC West and NFC North.
About the only games I would have some level of optimism would be JAX, NYJ, DET, and DEN.
I think they could get maybe another two wins aside from those teams, but I think getting eight wins is going to be difficult.

[XenoMorph]

(01-04-2021, 02:11 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: So, Mike Brown has decided to keep Zac Taylor.  A lot of people are, understandably, not very happy.  I'm certainly not either. (Shocker, I know.)

I don't think I'm out of line when I say that the overwhelming majority of fans wanted Zac Taylor gone.  I think this number is well over 90%.  That's just the God's honest truth.  So the Bengals chose not to cave to popular demand and they've ignored customer dissatisfaction.

Well, lets see what else they have in store for their fanbase.  Remember, just because Zac Taylor is staying doesn't mean they're still aren't significant moves they could make.  There are things they could do that would not only show fans they recognize their mistakes, but that they themseleves know they need to get much, much better.

What am I talking about?

-Duke Tobin (This is the big one)
-Scouting Department
-OC/DC

See, I think a lot of people feel like the Bengals just took the biggest dump on their fans by retaining Taylor.  And while that move is certainly unpopular they may not be done.

Imagine going 6-25 over two years and keeping every thing the same outside of a few position coaches.  It's one thing to not make a change at HC, but it's another entirely to not make any significant changes at all.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.  But if they elect to keep both Taylor and Tobin then I'm not sure they could say any more clearly that they could give two shits about what any of us think, nor do they ever intend on actually trying to win.  

Even a Aranumo firing does little to move the needle for me.  If they brought both a new OC and DC then that would help a little.  If they coupled an Aramumo firing with a beefed up scouting department then that would too.  Both of these would lessen the sting of a Taylor/Tobin retainment.

But they better do something big if they intend on earning any confidence whatsoever.  I don't think they will, but I just wanted to point out that they may not be done in their ineptitude.

But is that a new OC that also calls plays or just someone to hold the clipboard?

IE are you taking play calling duties away from ZT if your ownership?

[XenoMorph]

(01-04-2021, 03:19 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You mean in the middle of the season, or after the season?
I would think Taylor needs to "put up or shut up" in 2021 to keep his job beyond that.
About the only things I can see happening in regards to moving on from him midseason if things aren't going well would be to make Simmons interim HC or possibly the OC/DC if they happen to bring in one with previous HC experience.

Only thing i worry about with Simmons as an Interm  is the Interm's rarely come back if not given the job.

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-04-2021, 03:38 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: But is that a new OC that also calls plays or just someone to hold the clipboard?

IE are you taking play calling duties away from ZT if your ownership?

IMHO, yeah.  A new OC, who gets to install his own system and gets to call his own plays, would move the needle more for me than any other coaching change.

Zac Taylor is not a great OC, and he's definitely not a good HC right now.  Asking him to take on both roles, when he's clearly in over his head, is asking way too much.

The very least they could do if they're choosing to keep this guy and is to try to build two solid coordinators around him and let him focus on the big picture stuff.  I would feel much better if an inexperienced HC could lean on experienced coordinators.

Of course, all of us we're saying the same thing two years ago.  Yet they chose to build out one of the least experieced HC/OC/DC combos in the history of the league.

[GodFather]

(01-04-2021, 02:40 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Im curious if the Bengals start off September
0 and 4 is Taylor retained or fired at that point.

Watching this franchise is like watching Gilligans Island
And ZT is.Gilligan.

Do they have a plan B if ZT flounders again?

Why ya gotta insult Gilligan like that?

[Bengalstripes9]

Only cure is if they start winning. If they lose next year, everything will get blown up. I’m not optimistic, and have a wait and see approach. It’s looking like a higher possibility that they waste Burrow’s potential. If he gets hurt again next year I pray I have the strength to stop watching the train wreck. A good coach would have protected him with better scheme—and investment in the offensive line. Zac’s got one more year to prove us wrong. If the majority is right, who knows how many more players will be Bengalized.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Well we get senior bowl if their is one. We were big players in FA last year. i expect that to continue this year. who knows its not impossible for him to turn it around. we hit on a few draft picks last year maybe that continues this year.

[Bilbo Saggins]

In a hypothetical scenario where the Browns had decided to hire a random nobody from this message board as HC and stick with them for two full seasons no matter what, that random nobody's rank(in win percentage) among NFL head coaches would at least be equal to Zac Taylor's(all time dead last unless you count Bert Bell from the 40s).  I'd say that the damage is done.  I can't be interested in this team while he and "first round injury" Tobin are manning the ship.  If ZT starts winning miraculously, I'll be convinced that it's WWE level rigged.

[MileHighGrowler]

(01-04-2021, 05:35 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Well we get senior bowl if their is one. We were big players in FA last year. i expect that to continue this year. who knows its not impossible for him to turn it around. we hit on a few draft picks last year maybe that continues this year.

No we don't.  PDJ tweeted earlier the Bengals are not coaching the Sr Bowl. 

[DesertBengal]

(01-04-2021, 03:43 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: IMHO, yeah.  A new OC, who gets to install his own system and gets to call his own plays, would move the needle more for me than any other coaching change.

Zac Taylor is not a great OC, and he's definitely not a good HC right now.  Asking him to take on both roles, when he's clearly in over his head, is asking way too much.

The very least they could do if they're choosing to keep this guy and is to try to build two solid coordinators around him and let him focus on the big picture stuff.  I would feel much better if an inexperienced HC could lean on experienced coordinators.

Of course, all of us we're saying the same thing two years ago.  Yet they chose to build out one of the least experieced HC/OC/DC combos in the history of the league.

I agree with this.  I think both the team and Zac would both benefit from having an experienced OC on staff, that can plan the offense and call the plays.  I know that ZT was hired because he's an "offensive guru" but by giving these hands-on offensive duties to an OC it will free up his time to focus on head coaching and becoming a better one.

Even if it's slim pickings for OC (lots of candidates, may not want to attach themselves to a HC on the hot seat), a guy like Hue, who has been out of coaching for the past couple years may jump at an opportunity like this.  Hue was a bad HC, but we know he can be a good OC.