Receiver in first round?

[fredtoast]

(01-04-2021, 02:12 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: There’s like this whole other forum where this has been discussed ad nauseum.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-NFL-Draft-Central

But we are also talking about how decisions in free agency effect the draft decision.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-04-2021, 01:58 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: The draft will fall to BPA.

Let's hope for a repeat of last year's free agency where we filled holes on the roster.

IF we can resign Lawson, WJ3 and get a legit interior O-linemen, then we are looking at a wide open draft.

True.  That's the great think about the FA period now being before the draft.  Fill what you can with FA (Thuney, please) and then draft BPA that still addresses a need.  

[Essex Johnson]

(01-04-2021, 01:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I see a lot of people talking about drafting a WR with our first round pick.  That does not make any sense to me.  We already have two very good WRs in Higgins and Boyd.  A new guy might provide some improvement but not near as muc as a new guy at a position where we suck.

We desperately need help on the O-line and D-line.  We have to address those positions before we can even consider getting another receiver.

I agree with you but I would add LB to that list... stopping the run in the division next year is a must.. Parsons LB is a legit top 5 pick.. outside of Sewell what OT is a top 5 pick or what D-line is a top 5 pick.  Also if we don;t resign Jackson, I think corner has to come into the conversation.

Free Agency will also dictate where we go with the #5 pick

[fredtoast]

(01-04-2021, 02:17 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: True.  That's the great think about the FA period now being before the draft.  Fill what you can with FA (Thuney, please) and then draft BPA that still addresses a need.  

It hurts teams that free agency comes before the draft. In free agency you can target your most serious position of need, but in the draft you really need to take the best player available instead of reaching for a lower rated player based on position. Obviously teams take positions of need into account when ranking players on their draft board, and after the first couple of rounds it probably doesn't matter that much. But when you are talking about a top five pick in the first round it can be a huge mistake to reach based on position.


If the draft came first teams could take the best players available and then fill in the roster holes in free agency. But players don't like that because desperation is what drives big free agent contracts, and if a team has already addressed its biggest need in the draft they will not be as desperate to sign free agents.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-04-2021, 02:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It hurts teams that free agency comes before the draft. In free agency you can target your most serious position of need, but in the draft you really need to take the best player available instead of reaching for a lower rated player based on position. Obviously teams take positions of need into account when ranking players on their draft board, and after the first couple of rounds it probably doesn't matter that much. But when you are talking about a top five pick in the first round it can be a huge mistake to reach based on position.


If the draft came first teams could take the best players available and then fill in the roster holes in free agency. But players don't like that because desperation is what drives big free agent contracts, and if a team has already addressed its biggest need in the draft they will not be as desperate to sign free agents.

That is why I don't like it either.  I don't believe it hurts teams at all.  I believe it helps by making FA more affordable and helps teams fit their cap space requirements. 

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(01-04-2021, 01:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I see a lot of people talking about drafting a WR with our first round pick.  That does not make any sense to me.  We already have two very good WRs in Higgins and Boyd.  A new guy might provide some improvement but not near as muc as a new guy at a position where we suck.

We desperately need help on the O-line and D-line.  We have to address those positions before we can even consider getting another receiver.

The dire need for help on the O-line (and to a lesser extent D-line) makes it more likely that they draft a WR in the first.

The need for O-line help is such that we can't wait until the draft to make moves and need to address it in FA. This is for two reasons: 1) we don't know what players will be available to us when we pick; and 2) are we going to trust protection of the franchise to a rookie (and in the case of the top 2 OTs, rookies who haven't played in a year)? So it makes sense to address the O-line before the draft - by signing a top guard in FA.

I think they'll try and bring Lawson back to help the D-line.

They can then look to go more BPA and it would seem that the playmakers at our draft position would be pass catchers rather than pass protectors or pass disruptors. 

[cincyfan429]

if this team takes a WR with the five pick they have lost there minds. Trade up with the Jets and get Sewell see what it cost, or just trade back to pick up some picks. This team has no Offensive Line and a horrible pass rush, and really have no solid LB's. They don't need a WR at the 5 pick. Look Tee had a great year and is a very good player. but I wish we took a offensive lineman or pass rusher with first pick in round two. The last time this team was a serious threat is when Whitworth, Boling and Zeitler were on the front line.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-04-2021, 04:11 PM)cincyfan429 Wrote: if this team takes a WR with the five pick they have lost there minds. Trade up with the Jets and get Sewell see what it cost, or just trade back to pick up some picks. This team has no Offensive Line and a horrible pass rush, and really have no solid LB's. They don't need a WR at the 5 pick. Look Tee had a great year and is a very good player. but I wish we took a offensive lineman or pass rusher with first pick in round two. The last time this team was a serious threat is when Whitworth, Boling and Zeitler were on the front line.

We also had elite weapons: AJ, Marvin Jones, and Eifert. I’d argue Eifert had as much to do with that 2015 season as anyone other than Dalton.

[cincyfan429]

(01-04-2021, 04:14 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We also had elite weapons: AJ, Marvin Jones, and Eifert. I’d argue Eifert had as much to do with that 2015 season as anyone other than Dalton.

Well Boyd, Higgins and Mixon are our weapons with Burrow. I do think AJ will leave.

[reuben.ahmed]

i would trade mixon to move up for sewell lol

[Bilbo Saggins]

When your roster needs a lot of impact players, you may as well just take the BPA.  I don't "like" drafting WR or CB every year as a strategy, but hitting on a good starter at WR is obviously preferable to getting a backup/whiffing at a position of need.  In this draft I see Sewell, Pitts, and Chase as being better options than a lot of the much ballyhooed prospects on defense.  

If they choose to take BPA and round out the positions of need with a bunch of low cost veterans, that may be the way to go. They could spring for several XSF caliber free agents and let them duke it out in the hopes that the line is of passable quality. The Bills brought in a record number of cheap FAs when they were rebuilding - only a couple are still on the roster, but the message was sent: no one is entitled to a roster spot.

[CJD]

(01-04-2021, 01:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't really think there's a DL player worth the 5th overall pick. About the only one I would consider is Rousseau.
I would say the same for OL aside from Sewell.
The players I consider in that range aside from QBs are Sewell (OT), Parsons (LB), Surtain (CB), Farley (CB), Chase (WR). I'd put Smith (WR), Pitts (TE), and Rousseau (DE) right around the 8-12 range.

So I guess my question for you is if Sewell is gone, do you want to "reach" for OL/DL due to need? I realize "reach" is subjective and it really doesn't matter as long as the player is good, but I know some would have that concern.

Reaching for a guy worth the 8th pick with the 5th pick is kind of funny when you say it out loud. If you think a guy is worth a top 8 pick, I don't know how you determine that player is not worth a top 5 pick.

In that regard, I would say "reaching" for Slater (who many think is *merely* a top 10 pick rather than a top 5 pick [for now]) at #5 wouldn't really be an egregious waste of our pick if we think he can be an immediate impact starter.

I read that when we drafted Levi Jones in 2002, people considered it a reach. But he was integral to our offensive line in Carson's heyday and, had he not been derailed by injuries, would have a fixture on our line for a decade or more. Was it a bad selection? It's hard to consider it such.

When I think of a "reach" I think of players like Drew Sample who are drafted literal rounds sooner than expected and show that they were overdrafted in their seasons. Not a guy who was taken 2 or 3 picks sooner than many pundits think they should have been. 

[masterpanthera_t]

(01-04-2021, 01:47 PM)Whatever Wrote: I would take Sewell if he falls to us, regardless of FA.  Kid's potential is off the charts.  That said, if he's not there, you have to look at who's worth taking at that slot.  It's a bad DL class at the top.  There isn't another OL worth taking there.  There's a couple of WR's worth taking there.

Need is one thing, but it's foolish to pass on an AJ Green type prospect for a Michael Johnson type prospect just because of position group.  A prime AJ Green is going to help win more games than a prime MJ.  

Exactly.  If you could have Randy Moss,  would you pass him up for Dan Wilkinson if you needed DL more? I'm only saying hypothetically,. Not saying there's a Moss level receiver in this draft nor that the top defensive talent is only Wilkinson level. 

I would rather make sure that the OLis addressed in FA, rather than gamble that a rookie will protect the franchise qb. By all means draft BPA in the draft even if that's an OL. Adjusted a bit for needs of course.

[TecmoBengals]

(01-04-2021, 04:17 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: i would trade mixon to move up for sewell lol

Not a bad idea. You can always find RBs in later rounds. I badly want the OL help. While we're at it. Give me a blocking TE and an old school rough & tough fullback to protect Burrow.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-04-2021, 01:43 PM)Benton Wrote: Lines are a bigger priority and the bpa there is subjective. I'd rather have sewell or rousseau at five than another receiver. People want an aj green replacement but hell we've done ok without aj for a while.

To me, take a chance on somebody with speed in the 3-5 rounds.

We have? Since AJ started his injury issues in 2016 which halted him being a 1300 yard type WR, they haven't had a winning season... or an above-average offense for that matter.

[Mobster]

WR is a huge need. AJ was one of our top three receivers this year and had over 100 targets. He wasnt very good and had one of the lowest completion percentages of any player in the league. Upgrading that position would make a huge difference for this offense. we have one decent outside receiver right now with Higgins. You need three, which means adding two more. Boyd is good in the slot. Tee is solid outside, but we have nothing opposite him.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-04-2021, 04:17 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: i would trade mixon to move up for sewell lol

Bill O'Brien got fired and I don't think there's another guy left who would take that kind of contract for an injured RB with a career 4.1 YPC and coming off a well-below-4ypc season.

[bengaloo]

(01-04-2021, 01:43 PM)Benton Wrote: Lines are a bigger priority and the bpa there is subjective. I'd rather have sewell or rousseau at five than another receiver. People want an aj green replacement but hell we've done ok without aj for a while.

To me, take a chance on somebody with speed in the 3-5 rounds.

Im in this line of thinking as well. If Sewell is there he's a no brainer. Rousseau has mad potential and could really be a huge boost to our pass rush, and we may be able to get him by trading back a couple spots depending on how the combine and everything else pans out.

Plenty of WR's can be had in other rounds. We could also get one in FA.

All that being said, if they took a guy like Pitts, I wouldnt complain. Dude is a beast and would add another element to the offense.

[*Synric*]

I'm a Ja'Marr Chase fan but if Penei Sewell isnt there at 5 I'm hoping they look to trade back. If they get no takers on the trade its Patrick Surtain or Kyle Pitts...Pitts is growing on me especially if they continue the 5 wide empty sets. In a trade back Christian Darrisaw or Kwity Paye.

[impactplaya]

(01-04-2021, 04:55 PM)Synric Wrote: I'm a Ja'Marr Chase fan but if Penei Sewell isnt there at 5 I'm hoping they look to trade back. If they get no takers on the trade its Patrick Surtain or Kyle Pitts...Pitts is growing on me especially if they continue the 5 wide empty sets. In a trade back Christian Darrisaw or Kwity Paye.

Kyle Pitts is a matchup issue for any DC. 
The less snaps Drew Sample gets the better this offense will be