Injuries Vs. Wins (Our Injuries are Overstated)

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-05-2021, 04:38 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: What team lost their starting QB and starting RB and tope Oline LT for the amount of games that Bengals did ? I think is understated about the impact of a few players hurt more than a number of players.

San Francisco

Jimmy Grappalo (QB1) - missed 10 games
George Kittle (All Pro TE) - missed 8 games
Raheem Mosert (RB1) - missed 8 games
Deebo Samuel (WR1) - missed 9 games
Brandon Aiyuk (WR2) - missed 4 games
Nick Bosa (All Pro DE) - missed 14 games

Those are the big names off of the top of my head (I don't know their OL situation)

Here's their injury report for the middle of the season, week 9, where they had 22 guys out...



Keep in mind, this is a team that won 2 more games than we did.

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-05-2021, 04:44 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: They were 1-4-1 in games where Burrow, Mixon and Jonah all played. 

Reader was in a few of those two, right?  Same with Mike Daniels?

[Bengalholic]

(01-05-2021, 04:51 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Reader was in a few of those two, right?  Same with Mike Daniels?

Reader was there for 5 of them, Daniels for 2.

[fredtoast]

(01-05-2021, 04:26 PM)pally Wrote:  For instance losing your starting QB for 6 1/2 games is more impactful than losing your nickleback for the same time period. 

Our record improved after we lost our starting QB.

[*bfine32*]

(01-05-2021, 04:48 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: San Francisco

Jimmy Grappalo (QB1) - missed 10 games
George Kittle (All Pro TE) - missed 8 games
Raheem Mosert (RB1) - missed 8 games
Deebo Samuel (WR1) - missed 9 games
Brandon Aiyuk (WR2) - missed 4 games
Nick Bosa (All Pro DE) - missed 14 games

Those are the big names off of the top of my head (I don't know their OL situation)

Here's their injury report for the middle of the season, week 9, where they had 22 guys out...



Keep in mind, this is a team that won 2 more games than we did.

They are also a team that went from being in the Superbowl to missing the playoffs with a losing record.

[*bfine32*]

(01-05-2021, 06:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Our record improved after we lost our starting QB.

I guess it depends if you give the Washington loss to the QB that started and had us leading when he got injured or to the back up how came in and lost it.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-05-2021, 06:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I guess it depends if you give the Washington loss to the QB that started and had us leading when he got injured or to the back up how came in and lost it.

Yeah, I don't know how many games we would of won if Burrow stayed healthy. I am sure it would be more than 4.

[fredtoast]

(01-05-2021, 06:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I guess it depends if you give the Washington loss to the QB that started and had us leading when he got injured or to the back up how came in and lost it.

Nope

2-6-1...... .278%
2-5-0...... .286%

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-05-2021, 06:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Nope

2-6-1...... .278%
2-5-0...... .286%

You are honestly going to sit there and say that we win less games if Burrow stayed healthy?

[GreenCornBengal]

(01-05-2021, 06:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Nope

2-6-1...... .278%
2-5-0...... .286%

What about our points per game though lol. Offensive production much better indicator of the Burrow impact than W/L

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-05-2021, 07:03 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: What about our points per game though lol. Offensive production much better indicator of the Burrow impact than W/L

We would still win more games with Burrow than Finley and Allen though come on...

[*jason*]

(01-05-2021, 04:44 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: They were 1-4-1 in games where Burrow, Mixon and Jonah all played. 

Yeah but there's a pandemic and no preseason... The excuses go on and on.

[GreenCornBengal]

(01-05-2021, 07:06 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We would still win more games with Burrow than Finley and Allen though come on...

There is no way to definitively say that. It’s very likely, but no one really knows which I’m sure what Fred is trying to get at.

What I do know is that the offense would be operating at a higher level in all non-Texans matchups which would indicate a greater amount of wins with Burrow at the helm.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-05-2021, 07:10 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: There is no way to definitively say that. It’s very likely, but no one really knows which I’m sure what Fred is trying to get at.

What I do know is that the offense would be operating at a higher level in all non-Texans matchups which would indicate a greater amount of wins with Burrow at the helm.

True, but yeah, much more likely we win 4 games with a healthy Burrow over Allen and most definitely Finley IMO.

I don't know what he is getting at here either. Burrow was putting up historic numbers before he went down and has a 
killer instinct that Finley sure as heck doesn't have. Who is to say how many games we win with Burrow? He is a leader 
too and the team seemed to feed off of him.

[Bengalholic]

(01-05-2021, 07:08 PM)jason Wrote: Yeah but there's a pandemic and no preseason... The excuses go on and on.

Think about how many coaches have went into bad situations, had to deal with a myriad of obstacles, have had not so competent management, etc, etc, etc...yet Zac still managed to have one of the 5 worst starts in the SB era by a HC in his first 2 years.

[*jason*]

(01-05-2021, 07:25 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Think about how many coaches have went into bad situations, had to deal with a myriad of obstacles, have had not so competent management, etc, etc, etc...yet Zac managed to have one of the 5 worst starts in the SB era by a HC in his first 2 years.

Yep... And you know; as much as I've criticized him since about week 5 of 2019, I'da been sorta ok bringing him back if they somehow beat Baltimore. 5 wins after losing your franchise QB, best pass rushers, AJ being a dud... Not bad. My expectations were .500 give or take a game for him to keep his job. You can break out the excuse machine and rationalize 5 wins as touching .500 given the circumstances.

But no... They come out and get ***** demolished by the Ravens in the finale. Outside of that Saturn and Jupiter alignment that got them that win against Pittsburgh, they typically get whooped by the real contenders of the league, and just take a run of the mill beating from the also-rans of the league under Taylor.

[HarleyDog]

If a FO blames losses on injuries, then all your stating is your incompetency to sign quality depth. 1 person does not make a team and neither does a few when it comes to a 53 man roster. If your going to cut corners, then blame it on that and take responsibility. Blaming it on injuries is blaming the person who busted their asses to win but got injured in the process. What a clot statement.

[Joelist]

You do know that we can both have a lot of injuries AND have poor coaching right?

Losing Reader, Hubbard, Waynes and others did hurt the talent level on defense but to be honest the scheme used is just dumb and the coaching poor so while we might not haver been quite so easy to run on (then again, how much easier could we actually be to run on?) the D still would be a mess. Having XSF out and then Jonah did set the OL back some but the line already had bad scheme and bad technique and arguably the improvement later in the season was more Spain dropping out of the sky combined with the return of XSF than anything else. The mere fact that MJ was kept in there when he clearly is incompetent at Guard said a lot.

[Clark W Griswold]

I agree about the lack of talent/depth on the Bengals. Losing AJ and Jonah last year hurt the Bengals more than it would have a good team because the drop off to the next guy was so significant.

[Murdock2420]

What this shows more then anything to me is the lack of depth we have across the board.

So many other teams get an injury and they have a guy on the roster that steps in and can fill the void. Sure there is going to be a step down in quality but not to the level we see here.

The Ravens had how many people out against pitt with the Covid game and still showed up and played a competitive game.

So, the real question this graph brings to my attention is what do we need to change to have better depth? Is this a scouting failure, a Tobin failure, a drafting failure, a front office failure, a coaching failure (not getting the most out of guys) or is it all of the above?