Penei goes 2 overall, who do you pick?

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-01-2021, 02:25 PM)samhain Wrote: Between Chase, Waddle, and Smith, I think there's a really high likelihood that the Bengals will take a receiver in the first.  Value-wise, if Parsons is gone, which he likely will be, there isn't a defensive player worth taking at 6, and after Sewell, the OL are a bit more of a risk.  I'd throw Pitts into that mix as well.  

I like guys like Slater, Surtain, and Rousseau if I'm picking at 10 or 15, but not at 5-7.  You have to take the better player here.  

I'd like to see them get Chase, then sign Kyle Rudolph in FA, which should be reasonable.  You can take care of OL and defense in rounds 2&3 and FA.

Sewell, Chase, Surtain and Parsons. That's the order i'm looking at for #5 or 6. If they end up at 6 or later and none of those guys are there, i trade back (which i despise doing). 

[*bfine32*]

Has Fields or Lawrence declared for the draft?

[Whatever]

(01-01-2021, 12:34 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Wasn't sure where to put this. Figure it's as good here as anywhere. 

There's been a lot of talk about Kyle Pitts in the 1st. Hear me out on this because i've pushed back on it, a lot, in the past.

I think we have a Kyle Pitts already on the roster and i think you may know where i'm going with this. 


Auden Tate. 


Get someone on the staff to work with him this entire offseason, nutritionist, lifting program, concept, route running. Get him to add 10-12lbs to his frame and there's no more posts about Tate, his value and what he is. It solves the problem of getting him on the field with other WR ahead of him (yeeeeeees, because of his speed) and it gives you a reliable hands tweener TE, like Pitts. 

This is the kind of thing other teams do on occasion and it would be nice to watch all the segments on how a Bengals converted WR is tearing it up at TE next year and i think it upgrades the TE position without having to use a pick.

There's several issues with this. Tate is one of only 3 non-PS WR's  under contract next year.  Converting Tate would mean we have to sign/resign/draft 4 WR's.  WR depth is a much bigger concern than TE depth.  It's a very safe bet that Tate can make the roster as a WR next year.  It's very long odds that he can make it as a TE and the odds of him being a stud in his first year playing the position are astronomically high.  

Tate has big time physical weaknesses in straight line speed, short area quickness, and route running.  Adding 15-20 pounds to his frame is only going to make those issues even worse.  He'll be slower, have less burst, and his routes will be even more imprecise.  On top of that, he'll have to block in line, which will be another weakness in all likelihood.  He's injury prone, and carrying that extra weight will but even more strain on his body.  It's also going to make it tougher to rotate his body in the air to make his highlight reel catches.  Plus, all the time he's going to spend in the off-season trying to bulk up and learn to block in line is going to take away time from the thing he needs to improve to be an effective receiving threat, like route running.

Pitts has athletic traits that Tate simply can't match and experience at the position. The only thing really comparable between them is the highlight reel grabs and Pitts is doing it at 10-15 pounds heavier.  

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-03-2021, 04:35 PM)Whatever Wrote: There's several issues with this. Tate is one of only 3 non-PS WR's  under contract next year.  Converting Tate would mean we have to sign/resign/draft 4 WR's.  WR depth is a much bigger concern than TE depth.  It's a very safe bet that Tate can make the roster as a WR next year.  It's very long odds that he can make it as a TE and the odds of him being a stud in his first year playing the position are astronomically high.  

Tate has big time physical weaknesses in straight line speed, short area quickness, and route running.  Adding 15-20 pounds to his frame is only going to make those issues even worse.  He'll be slower, have less burst, and his routes will be even more imprecise.  On top of that, he'll have to block in line, which will be another weakness in all likelihood.  He's injury prone, and carrying that extra weight will but even more strain on his body.  It's also going to make it tougher to rotate his body in the air to make his highlight reel catches.  Plus, all the time he's going to spend in the off-season trying to bulk up and learn to block in line is going to take away time from the thing he needs to improve to be an effective receiving threat, like route running.

Pitts has athletic traits that Tate simply can't match and experience at the position. The only thing really comparable between them is the highlight reel grabs and Pitts is doing it at 10-15 pounds heavier.  

I'd bet money that Erickson, Thomas and Morgan are on the roster to go along with Boyd and Higgins. Throw in (probable) Chase and you have 6. That's not counting a later round pick or FA/cut down day signing. I don't see WR depth as a concern at all. 

Uzomah and Sample are roster locks next year. Schreck has 0 dead money in '21 if cut and Carter is a UFA. Neither of those guys would make a ripple if they're not on the roster next year, though Carter has value on ST (granted, i don't value ST quite as much as some others--i think those roles are filled rather easily) and i think he's vastly underutilized as a pass catching TE. 

Adding 15-20 lbs is too much weight for one offseason and more than likely not very attainable. I don't see Tate as a prototypical TE as much as a 'tweener'. Adding 1 to 2 lbs a month is very doable and would get him up to around 240 during training camp, which is what Pitts is right now. It would also be slow enough to allow his body to adapt without too much (if any) loss in physical skill. That's the whole reason they would need a very detailed program for him to follow, which would include training in TE concepts and route running. There are flexibility exercises that could be very beneficial to him as well as things he could do to help/keep speed. There's no denying his ability to catch the ball and he's not as limited in short area quickness as you're claiming. I would never expect him to be a "stud" in year one or any year after that, simply trying to find a role that could get him on the field more and in a way that would help the team more. As far as in-line blocking, i would expect that to be minimal, same as it is with Pitts but i believe Tate is already a better overall blocker than Pitts.

Now...do i expect the Bengals to even entertain this idea? No. Not at all. But i think it's an intriguing idea. Maybe it has more to do with me wanting the team to try and do something i see other teams do; actually show some innovation with something that's not unrealistic. Thinking outside the box just a bit with a low level of risk. 

Pitts is a weapon but i don't really think i want him at #5 if Chase is there. If Chase isn't there, or even if the Bengals choose him regardless, tbh, i won't be upset.

[NATI BENGALS]

I’m having a hard time imagining passing up Surtain if he is on the board when we pick.

Son of an All Pro NFL CB, turned into a top college recruit, went to one of the most prestigious programs, played right away as a true freshman in the SEC, top graded CB for 2020, elite physical tools.

Man this guy checks a lot of the right boxes and gets a lot of extra credit points too.

To this point he is one of those corners QBs pretty much try to avoid.

I am not against adding a big ass blue chip lockdown CB who was the best to do it on college football this year

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-06-2021, 12:35 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I’m having a hard time imagining passing up Surtain if he is on the board when we pick.

Son of an All Pro NFL CB, turned into a top college recruit, went to one of the most prestigious programs, played right away as a true freshman in the SEC, top graded CB for 2020, elite physical tools.

Man this guy checks a lot of the right boxes and gets a lot of extra credit points too.

To this point he is one of those corners QBs pretty much try to avoid.

I am not against adding a big ass blue chip lockdown CB who was the best to do it on college football this year

I want to go offense (Sewell/Chase/Pitts), but if we do go defense Surtain is by far my first choice.

[Bengal Dude]

(01-06-2021, 02:06 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I want to go offense (Sewell/Chase/Pitts), but if we do go defense Surtain is by far my first choice.

I have a feeling that CB will be higher than most people expect. If the Bengals actually address the OL in free agency, then expect a CB to be the pick in the 1st or 2nd round. Unless the Bengals surprise everyone and bring in another starting CB during free agency.

[Frank Booth]

(01-06-2021, 12:35 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I’m having a hard time imagining passing up Surtain if he is on the board when we pick.

Son of an All Pro NFL CB, turned into a top college recruit, went to one of the most prestigious programs, played right away as a true freshman in the SEC, top graded CB for 2020, elite physical tools.

Man this guy checks a lot of the right boxes and gets a lot of extra credit points too.

To this point he is one of those corners QBs pretty much try to avoid.

I am not against adding a big ass blue chip lockdown CB who was the best to do it on college football this year

If we add a couple big time free agent guards, I have no problem taking Surtain over Sewell. Hart is whatever and Jonah’s ok. The problem isn’t the tackles. It’s the guards.

If a potential lockdown corner falls in our laps, you really should take him. Especially with WJ3 most likely leaving

[TecmoBengals]

AJ gone = Mike Brown will take Chase or Smith.

[Whatever]

(01-05-2021, 10:46 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'd bet money that Erickson, Thomas and Morgan are on the roster to go along with Boyd and Higgins. Throw in (probable) Chase and you have 6. That's not counting a later round pick or FA/cut down day signing. I don't see WR depth as a concern at all. 

Uzomah and Sample are roster locks next year. Schreck has 0 dead money in '21 if cut and Carter is a UFA. Neither of those guys would make a ripple if they're not on the roster next year, though Carter has value on ST (granted, i don't value ST quite as much as some others--i think those roles are filled rather easily) and i think he's vastly underutilized as a pass catching TE. 

Adding 15-20 lbs is too much weight for one offseason and more than likely not very attainable. I don't see Tate as a prototypical TE as much as a 'tweener'. Adding 1 to 2 lbs a month is very doable and would get him up to around 240 during training camp, which is what Pitts is right now. It would also be slow enough to allow his body to adapt without too much (if any) loss in physical skill. That's the whole reason they would need a very detailed program for him to follow, which would include training in TE concepts and route running. There are flexibility exercises that could be very beneficial to him as well as things he could do to help/keep speed. There's no denying his ability to catch the ball and he's not as limited in short area quickness as you're claiming. I would never expect him to be a "stud" in year one or any year after that, simply trying to find a role that could get him on the field more and in a way that would help the team more. As far as in-line blocking, i would expect that to be minimal, same as it is with Pitts but i believe Tate is already a better overall blocker than Pitts.

Now...do i expect the Bengals to even entertain this idea? No. Not at all. But i think it's an intriguing idea. Maybe it has more to do with me wanting the team to try and do something i see other teams do; actually show some innovation with something that's not unrealistic. Thinking outside the box just a bit with a low level of risk. 

Pitts is a weapon but i don't really think i want him at #5 if Chase is there. If Chase isn't there, or even if the Bengals choose him regardless, tbh, i won't be upset.

Thomas seemed to fall out of favor as the year went on.  Erickson could return, but it's also a deep draft for slot WR's with return ability.  Morgan offers nothing as a position player.

Why would Tate want to even attempt this conversion?  He's basically guaranteed a spot at WR next year and will have a good shot at getting a second contract somewhere if he stays there.  If this TE conversion doesn't work out, he gets cut a year short of earning full retirement benefits from the league and is probably out of the league.  It's a terrible risk/reward for the guy.

His quickness issues are not overstated.  Guy ran a 4.58 shuttle at his pro day.  By comparison, the top shuttle from a WR at the combine last year was 4.12.  For further comparison, Drew Sample ran it in 4.31.  He's bad by TE standards. His athletic measurements are downright brutal by NFL standards.  The only things he has going for him are size and great hands. Not being a great natural athlete, the odds are ridiculously bad that he can pull off what you're asking.  He will also see more balls as a #4/5 WR than as a #3/4 TE. Pretty much anything you can do with him as a move TE, we could already do with Uzomah.  Just seems like a lot of trouble to go through to force targets to a depth guy.  

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-06-2021, 11:50 AM)Whatever Wrote: Thomas seemed to fall out of favor as the year went on.  Erickson could return, but it's also a deep draft for slot WR's with return ability.  Morgan offers nothing as a position player.

Why would Tate want to even attempt this conversion?  He's basically guaranteed a spot at WR next year and will have a good shot at getting a second contract somewhere if he stays there.  If this TE conversion doesn't work out, he gets cut a year short of earning full retirement benefits from the league and is probably out of the league.  It's a terrible risk/reward for the guy.

His quickness issues are not overstated.  Guy ran a 4.58 shuttle at his pro day.  By comparison, the top shuttle from a WR at the combine last year was 4.12.  For further comparison, Drew Sample ran it in 4.31.  He's bad by TE standards. His athletic measurements are downright brutal by NFL standards.  The only things he has going for him are size and great hands. Not being a great natural athlete, the odds are ridiculously bad that he can pull off what you're asking.  He will also see more balls as a #4/5 WR than as a #3/4 TE. Pretty much anything you can do with him as a move TE, we could already do with Uzomah.  Just seems like a lot of trouble to go through to force targets to a depth guy.  

I've stated my case, that's my story and i'm stickin to it.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-06-2021, 12:44 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Just a little background on Tate converting to TE. Coaches tried to get him to do that in high school and in college and he refused. Not sure what would happen here if he walked in one day and ZT said, now you’re a TE. My guess is he would leave the team and request a trade.

Nicomo posted an article where he was open to the idea, i think, a couple years ago? I don't know his thoughts now but it's something that i would approach as being in the 'early thought stages' but i would probably get his feedback on it. It rarely ever works to try and force something on someone. 

[CJD]

No player will improve this team more than a good RT. If you're looking at using the #5 pick to make this team, as a 53 man unit, better you have to negotiate that position. I don't care if you trade down and take Slater or Darrisaw. I don't care if you just reach for them at #5. You gotta come out of this draft with a starting tackle.

Now, if we're aggressive in free agency and fill that need, then the board opens up in my opinion. But even then, I struggle with the idea of a WR. We already have two high quality WRs on the roster and they both come due in 2023. Drafting a WR now means that, by the time we are entering that negotiation period with Higgins and Boyd, this WR will be costing between 8 and 10 million dollars for the following two seasons. That means we're likely letting either Boyd or Higgins walk, which would be a shame.

I come in and out of thinking those three seasons of having 3 elite WRs would be worth letting Boyd or Higgins walk in 2023...but at the moment I'm thinking you need to protect Burrow's knee at all costs and that means fixing the Oline in one off season. And that's going to cost free agency dollars and draft capital. And the best draft capital we've got is this #5 pick.

[XenoMorph]

(12-28-2020, 10:27 PM)jason Wrote: Who's the best blocking TE in this draft?

i think a FullBack would be more valuable considering how we struggled to run the ball.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-06-2021, 01:10 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: i think a FullBack would be more valuable considering how we struggled to run the ball.

Nah. They haven't taken a LS at the top of the draft in forever. 

[Bengalpool]

I'm very torn on who to take at #5..... Watching that last game against the Ratbirds really made me feel we should go heavy D (at least the first 2 rounds) and o-line in rounds 3 and 4. Maybe a speedster in round 5. When Burrow is back and healthy, he will make others around him better. I'm not so sure as awesome as it sounds that going WR at #5 is the best thing for this team.

If Sewell is there, you take him and don't look back.
If Chase/Smith, Parsons, Surtain II are there, I would trade down a couple spots for a 2nd/3rd round pick and take best available.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-01-2021, 02:43 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: I'd pick Parsons all day long.   He's a generational type talent    he can any of linebacking positions .     Reminds me of Lawrence Taylor with a blend of Patrick Willis.

Im also in the Parsons camp, especially with that lack of a LB playmaker

[Bengalpool]

(01-06-2021, 01:29 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Im also in the Parsons camp, especially with that lack of a LB playmaker

How is Parsons in coverage?

[Whatever]

(01-06-2021, 01:06 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: No player will improve this team more than a good RT. If you're looking at using the #5 pick to make this team, as a 53 man unit, better you have to negotiate that position. I don't care if you trade down and take Slater or Darrisaw. I don't care if you just reach for them at #5. You gotta come out of this draft with a starting tackle.

Now, if we're aggressive in free agency and fill that need, then the board opens up in my opinion. But even then, I struggle with the idea of a WR. We already have two high quality WRs on the roster and they both come due in 2023. Drafting a WR now means that, by the time we are entering that negotiation period with Higgins and Boyd, this WR will be costing between 8 and 10 million dollars for the following two seasons. That means we're likely letting either Boyd or Higgins walk, which would be a shame.

I come in and out of thinking those three seasons of having 3 elite WRs would be worth letting Boyd or Higgins walk in 2023...but at the moment I'm thinking you need to protect Burrow's knee at all costs and that means fixing the Oline in one off season. And that's going to cost free agency dollars and draft capital. And the best draft capital we've got is this #5 pick.

Boyd will be 29 when his contract expires, so he's a pretty easy choice to lose.  He will not have many good years left when his contract is up. If you're smart, you extend Tee after year 3 to spread out the cap hit, anyways, and be looking to draft a younger, cheaper replacement for Boyd regardless of taking a WR early this year or not.

You run into a similar situation at T if you take one at 5, though.  You will have to pay big money to keep them and Jonah or let one walk.  

[Whatever]

(01-06-2021, 01:20 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Nah. They haven't taken a LS at the top of the draft in forever. 

Harris is a FA and it's a very weak FA class for LS.  It's a big time need, so who cares if it's a reach?