Devonta Smith

[masterpanthera_t]

(01-12-2021, 01:34 AM)TheFan Wrote: Neither him nor Chase are going to put up elite athlete WR numbers. 

I'm not worried too much about elite athleticism,  just if he can beat bump and run coverage by NFL corners. In the three tds I saw him score yesterday,  he wasn't tested at all.  Of course,  I've never seen any of his  plays other than those 3. If he has great route running skills,  then no concerns. 

[masterpanthera_t]

(01-12-2021, 01:50 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: He’s being compared to Marvin Harrison. Harrison was good, and never had issues with injuries really. Smith is a baller. He’s going to be good. Definitely a top 5 pick.

My concern wasn't about injuries,  but whether he could get past bump and run coverage.  If he can run routes like Marvin Harrison, then that's not a concern anymore. 

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-12-2021, 01:22 AM)TheFan Wrote: I'd be happy with either but I personally don't like a player sitting out a whole year just to save draft stock. Reminds me too much of Clowney.

I think you have to consider this year seperate from others.  Covid has to be mentioned and considered along with "saving draft stock".

[Memphis_Bengal]

Dream scenario:

1st Round: Penei Sewell
2nd Round: Chris Olave

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-12-2021, 01:34 AM)TheFan Wrote: Neither him nor Chase are going to put up elite athlete WR numbers. 

I mean, that seems like a helluva assumption.  What are you basing this off of?

Fwiw, here's my case that Chase will put up significant numbers... Justin Jefferson just had 1,400 yards and 7 TD's in his rookie season.  This playing alongside Adam Thielen, who is a top 20 receiver.

Let's look at the tale of the tape between Chase and Jefferson:

Numbers (when they played together in 2019)
Jefferson ----- 111 rec, 1,540 yards, 18 TD's, 13.9 YPC
Chase ---------- 84 rec, 1,780 yards, 20 TD's, 21.2 YPC

Size
Jefferson ------ 6'1 202 pounds
Chase ---------- 6'1 200 pounds

Speed (40 Time)
Jefferson ------ 4.43
Chase ---------- 4.40

Chase outproduced Jefferson when he was a Sophmore and Jefferson was a Jr.  He's long been projected as the better prospect, as numerous people said he would have went first between them had he come out last year.

So if Justin Jefferson is capable of 1,400 yards in his rookie season (a ridiculous level of production) then how can you confidently say, as a matter of fact, that Chase will not put elite numbers in the NFL?

To each their own, but that makes no sense to me.  I'd be really curiuous to hear what exactly drew you to this conclusion.

[CJD]

For those curious, Chase's "pro comparison" is considered by many to be DeAndre Hopkins and Smith's "pro comparison" is considered by many to be Marvin Harrison.

I can see justification for both of these comparisons. Chase, despite not being the tallest receiver, is an incredible high point receiver (just like Hopkins) who runs excellent routes, has incredible hands and gets great separation despite not being a burner.

Smith, on the other hand, is also not a burner  but is still a deep threat, has a knack for getting open, has insane body control with a quick release and very reliable hands. His comparison to Harrison is notable because Harrison was also a ~6 foot, ~180 lb receiver.

Take these with a grain of salt, but I don't think we can go wrong with either of them.

[J24]

I don't think we go with WR at 5 but if the front office thinks Smith or Chase is the best players available then I have no problem with it. I would prefer we go OT or CB though.

[TheFan]

(01-12-2021, 01:46 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I mean, that seems like a helluva assumption.  What are you basing this off of?

Fwiw, here's my case that Chase will put up significant numbers...  Justin Jefferson just had 1,400 yards and 7 TD's in his rookie season.  This playing alongside Adam Thielen, who is a top 20 receiver.

Let's look at the tale of the tape between Chase and Jefferson:

Numbers (when they played together in 2019)
Jefferson ----- 111 rec, 1,540 yards, 18 TD's, 13.9 YPC
Chase ---------- 84 rec, 1,780 yards, 20 TD's, 21.2 YPC

Size
Jefferson ------ 6'1 202 pounds
Chase ---------- 6'1 200 pounds

Speed (40 Time)
Jefferson ------ 4.43
Chase ---------- 4.40

Chase outproduced Jefferson when he was a Sophmore and Jefferson was a Jr.  He's long been projected as the better prospect, as numerous people said he would have went first between them had he come out last year.

So if Justin Jefferson is capable of 1,400 yards in his rookie season (a ridiculous level of production) then how can you confidently say, as a matter of fact, that Chase will not put elite numbers in the NFL?

To each their own, but that makes no sense to me.  I'd be really curiuous to hear what exactly drew you to this conclusion.

I'm not saying he won't put up elite WR numbers in playing. I meant he won't be putting up elite athlete WR numbers at the combine. 

By elite WR athlete I mean elite Size/Speed (Calvin Johnson, Metcalf, Julio Jones) or super elite speed (Hill). Smith and Chase are both okay size with good speed but not amazing. That said it's about how you use those tools but they aren't going to drop any jaws at the combine. 

Regarding Chase, you can believe it was covid but almost no other big time player opted out. He had pretty much nothing possible to gain from playing and likely could have only hurt his draft stock by not playing on a stacked team like last year so to me it seems like he quit. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-12-2021, 10:55 AM)impactplaya Wrote: How do we define small then ?

It's typically defined by muscle mass.

[Murdock2420]

(01-12-2021, 01:42 PM)Memphis_Bengal Wrote: Dream scenario:

1st Round: Penei Sewell
2nd Round: Chris Olave

You misspelled Carlos Basham name.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-12-2021, 11:26 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: That should have absolutely zero factor in who they select.  They should take whoever they project to be the better player.

The idea that we need to take Chase because Burrow knows him is ridiculous.  We're building out a professional roster, not picking our team for a pickup game at the YMCA.

Being Chase, it's just an added bonus toward timing and chemistry.

[Murdock2420]

(01-12-2021, 01:46 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: For those curious, Chase's "pro comparison" is considered by many to be DeAndre Hopkins and Smith's "pro comparison" is considered by many to be Marvin Harrison.

I can see justification for both of these comparisons. Chase, despite not being the tallest receiver, is an incredible high point receiver (just like Hopkins) who runs excellent routes, has incredible hands and gets great separation despite not being a burner.

Smith, on the other hand, is also not a burner  but is still a deep threat, has a knack for getting open, has insane body control with a quick release and very reliable hands. His comparison to Harrison is notable because Harrison was also a ~6 foot, ~180 lb receiver.

Take these with a grain of salt, but I don't think we can go wrong with either of them.

Every year the "experts" pro comparison for this college player is some guy that played at a level that they most likely will never reach.

For example: Player A is what NFL left tackles are supposed to look like. Tall, lean, athletic and with huge arms and hands, he's right out of central casting. Player A is a fluid, impressive athlete with experience playing guard, right tackle and left tackle at Texas A&M. He's an athletic mover in space and can quickly get to the second level in the run game or to the corner in pass protection.


He uses his length well when engaging defenders and has the feet to slide, mirror and match defenders. He'll finish blocks in space and can ride defensive players out of the play. You won't find many offensive linemen with his athleticism, length and agility.

PRO COMPARISON: Duane Brown, Houston Texans


A top-tier athlete with a lean, long body and excellent athleticism, Player A is similar to Duane Brown at Virginia Tech and in Houston.


The player = Cedric Ogbuehi


Another fun one:

Team sources agree that Brandon Cooks is a pretty good comparison, except they think that John Ross could be a more natural receiver than Cooks. Both are fast players who have good hands and are explosive wideouts. They also are smaller receivers. Cooks went in the back half of the first round in his draft class, and Ross could go in a similar range.

So these "pro comparisons" should be taken very lightly.

[Yogo]

Seriously, I don't even know why you guys are considering drafting for a position that is not even a need on the team. The pick should be Sewell or trade down period for the next batch of OLinemen.

BTW, speaking of Alabama receivers that were elite....
Julio Jones and Amari Cooper were men among boys and it showed.
Devonta Smith is more in the Calvin Ridley territory in my book.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-12-2021, 12:57 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Marquis Brown plays in a run heavy offense.
He had 100 targets last season. Thats about 6 per
Game on average. What is asked to do in the Ravens
Offense he does well. He must block well too for 
His size too as evidence of the Ravens rushing numbers

Its all relative in the NFL.Tyrek Hill is small...5'10 189
But in the Chiefs offense he is their go to man with Kelce
He had 87 catches 15 TDs.

Hill and Brown are the same WR. Just in very 2 different
Offensive schemes.

58% catch rate with 7 drops and only 13.3 per. I don't see them as the same in any way; production, size or mental fitness. I agree the Ravens are a run heavy offense, but it's more that way due to them extending drives and running more plays. Not so much a disparity in ratio.

But to get back to the topic. AB is a shorter guy but he's thicker than MB is. I don't think either one of them is a great comparison because, as i said, AB is much thicker and even though MB is only about 170, he has it on a 5' 9" frame. 170lbs is much different on a 5'9 guy than it is on a 6'0 or 6'1 guy. 

The NFL is a tough, physical league and i wouln't want to roll the dice on a guy that could get banged up easier than someone else. 

[impactplaya]

(01-12-2021, 04:36 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: 58% catch rate with 7 drops and only 13.3 per. I don't see them as the same in any way; production, size or mental fitness. I agree the Ravens are a run heavy offense, but it's more that way due to them extending drives and running more plays. Not so much a disparity in ratio.

But to get back to the topic. AB is a shorter guy but he's thicker than MB is. I don't think either one of them is a great comparison because, as i said, AB is much thicker and even though MB is only about 170, he has it on a 5' 9" frame. 170lbs is much different on a 5'9 guy than it is on a 6'0 or 6'1 guy. 

The NFL is a tough, physical league and i wouln't want to roll the dice on a guy that could get banged up easier than someone else. 

Any player that steps on the field can get injured as easily
As the next guy. Auden Tate is all jacked up and 
He missed 5 games last year.
Some team is going to draft Devonta Smith in the Top
10. 

(01-07-2021, 11:19 AM)pally Wrote: this was a comment from T Taylor Decker


"He's going to have that insight for the guys, especially playing on the inside," Decker said of Fraley. "Just seeing how he goes about our meetings so far, and I've known this about him from him being an assistant o-line coach, he's very, very detailed.



"Very detailed with how he has plays drawn up, with how his concepts are worded towards us, with how his techniques are worded in his presentations. So, I think it'll be great and I'm super excited for him and we were all super excited when he got that job. He deserves it because the dude works really hard. We're excited to have Old Hank."

[*bfine32*]

(01-12-2021, 11:57 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Would you please stop following me around looking to pick a fight?  Did I say we shouldn't get input? 

No, I said we shouldn't just take Chase because he's familiar with Burrow.  The person I replied to said if Chase and Smith were close we should take Chase because he's familair with Burrow.

There's nothing wrong with asking Joe Burrow questions about Chase.  i.e. Is he a good teammate?, How's his work ethic?, What can you tell us we're not seeing?, etc.

Getting input is entirely different than looking at a draft board where you have two WR's very close, and deciding to take one over the other only because he's friends with your rookie QB.

You think too much of yourself.

You said it should have "That should have absolutely zero factor in who they select.  ", so I summarized that as no input. I think Joe's preference should absolutely be a factor. The biggest factor? No. More than 0? Yes

[*Synric*]

Devonta Smith and Ja'Marr Chase are different receivers.

Smith was moved around all year to create space and matchups that allowed him to use his short area burst to get lots of YAC. In the Nation Championship two of Smith's touchdowns was him actually as an H-Back running flares out of the backfield.

Smith is a dynamic receiver but he would suffer if you lined him up on the boundary 80% of his snaps. Chase is the exact opposite. Ja'Marr Chase earned his stats as a primary boundary receiver he lined up as the Z or X on almost every snap.

Both receivers are elite but the Bengals need that outside boundary receiver to pair up with Tyler Boyd and Tee Higgins Chase fits better than Smith.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-12-2021, 03:58 PM)TheFan Wrote: I'm not saying he won't put up elite WR numbers in playing. I meant he won't be putting up elite athlete WR numbers at the combine. 

By elite WR athlete I mean elite Size/Speed (Calvin Johnson, Metcalf, Julio Jones) or super elite speed (Hill). Smith and Chase are both okay size with good speed but not amazing. That said it's about how you use those tools but they aren't going to drop any jaws at the combine. 

Regarding Chase, you can believe it was covid but almost no other big time player opted out. He had pretty much nothing possible to gain from playing and likely could have only hurt his draft stock by not playing on a stacked team like last year so to me it seems like he quit. 

Parsons opted out and he is in that top 5 discussion,  I do think chase could slide some not playing this year but still be a top 10ish pick

[*bfine32*]

(01-12-2021, 05:35 PM)Synric Wrote: Devonta Smith and Ja'Marr Chase are different receivers.

Smith was moved around all year to create space and matchups that allowed him to use his short area burst to get lots of YAC. In the Nation Championship two of Smith's touchdowns was him actually as an  H-Back running flares out of the backfield.

Smith is a dynamic receiver but he would suffer if you lined him up on the boundary 80% of his snaps. Chase is the exact opposite. Ja'Marr Chase earned his stats as a primary boundary receiver he lined up as the Z or X on almost every snap.

Both receivers are elite but the Bengals need that outside boundary receiver to pair up with Tyler Boyd and Tee Higgins Chase fits better than Smith.

We usually agree on most things but on the I couldn't disagree more. I think the team needs the skill set Smith brings more so than Chase. Also his PR skills are needed. 

[Essex Johnson]

(01-12-2021, 06:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We usually agree on most things but on the I couldn't disagree more. I think the team needs the skill set Smith brings more so than Chase. Also his PR skills are needed. 

I agree, if we do go WR..I prefer Smith over Chase for the Bengals, Smith brings a dimension we don;t have and like you stated adds to the speciality game ... Love the thought of Wilson and Smith as our returners...