Would you trade Burrow for Watson

[CJD]

(01-14-2021, 09:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: You are dead on, though, on your ranking of Watson.  He is incredible.  Hard to believe how he was crapped on coming out of Clemson.  I see a lot of similarities with Justin Fields.  Fields might be the most amazing athlete I have seen play QB in ages.  He just glides when he runs, but OSU wisely tried to make him more of a pocket passer to develop him, instead of just a running QB.  There have been plays where Fields handed the ball off, and actually caught his RB running down the field to block for him.  I have no idea what his 40 time will be, but he is going to be a stud in the NFL.  I just hope he doesn't end up in pitt.   

I am very interested in seeing how Fields plays in the NFL. He could be a Watson like player. I am a bit weary of OSU's offense since they have produced no meaningful NFL talent at QB in the last...forever (seriously, has there ever been an OSU QB that has had success in the NFL?), but Fields does look like the real deal. 

I am really hoping he is drafted in the top 4. That will give us a really good chance of getting Sewell at 5 if Lawrence, Wilson, Fields and one other player goes before us, which may be Devonta Smith after that national championship game.

Crossing my fingers :)

[KillerGoose]

(01-14-2021, 09:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Not jumping on you for your opinion, but this is the thought process that got them from a playoff team to a four win team.  And they actually gave up their first round pick this year (ended up being #3 overall...ouch) to get him a better LT.  They still won 4 games.  Russell Wilson is dealing with the same thing.

You are dead on, though, on your ranking of Watson.  He is incredible.  Hard to believe how he was crapped on coming out of Clemson.  I see a lot of similarities with Justin Fields.  Fields might be the most amazing athlete I have seen play QB in ages.  He just glides when he runs, but OSU wisely tried to make him more of a pocket passer to develop him, instead of just a running QB.  There have been plays where Fields handed the ball off, and actually caught his RB running down the field to block for him.  I have no idea what his 40 time will be, but he is going to be a stud in the NFL.  I just hope he doesn't end up in pitt.   

Ohhhh, c'mon Racer. How is Fields possibly the best athlete you've seen at QB in ages when Lamar Jackson just came out three years ago? Or Kyler Murray two years ago? Hell, say what you will about Pryor and his QB abilities, but he was such a stellar athlete that he switched to receiver and recorded a 1000 yard season. Robert Griffin, Mariota, the list goes on-and-on. Fields is a good athlete but there are plenty of other QBs that are legitimately great athletes and not just 'good'.

[*bfine32*]

(01-14-2021, 10:27 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I did not weigh in yet on Watson for Burrow. No way, the cap hit alone makes it a bad deal, they would have to give me their 1st round pick in 2022 also to even consider it.

I think he stays in Houston, but if he leaves, I hope it is to a NFC team, Bears should do it. Skins should do it. 49ers should do it.

My fear is that the Steelers put something together.

[CJD]

(01-14-2021, 12:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My fear is that the Steelers put something together.

I wonder what it would cost them. Would it be like 3 first round picks? 4? I imagine it would be a huge price tag if you're not offering a top quality QB in return.

[*bfine32*]

(01-14-2021, 12:53 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I wonder what it would cost them. Would it be like 3 first round picks? 4? I imagine it would be a huge price tag if you're not offering a top quality QB in return.

The talk is: Watson carries a 3 first rd price tag, with a top 5OA counting as 2 1st rounders.

So IF we wanted DW it would cost Burrow and our #5OA.

Steelers would probably have to surrender their entire 2021 draft and RD 1 2022.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-14-2021, 11:14 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: True. But that situation in Houston was caused, in large part, by the incompetence of Bill O'Brien. The reason he had to trade a king's ransom for Tunsil was because, a few years earlier, they traded their pro bowl LT, Duane Brown for pennies on the dollar (a 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder for an elite LT). This, obviously, left a massive hole on the line that they needed to fill, in desperation, with a guy in the last year of his deal. Since they just traded so many picks for him, he knew they needed to re-sign him at any cost and he gouged them for it (to the tune of 66 million dollars over 3 years). Brown, by the way, is still playing at a high level in Seattle and only costs them 34.5 million over 3 years.

Then, they traded their best receiver for a washed up RB with a huge salary (11 million in 2020, 9 million in 2021) and a 2nd round pick. Then, in a draft filled with Wide Receiver talent, they traded their 2nd round pick for a WR with a contract worth 8 million in 2020, 12 million in 2021, 13 million in 2022 and 14 million in 2023. Don't get me wrong, Cooks is a fine WR but he's not elite and that money is absurd for what he provides, especially when they could have drafted Van Jefferson, Devin Duvernay or Denzel Mims with that pick and paid a fraction of that cost.

So, within 5 years, they threw away a pro bowl tackle, desperation signed another tackle to whatever number he asked for, threw away their best offensive weapon, picked up an insanely overpriced RB and then traded a high value pick in a WR heavy draft for an overpaid WR.

The reason I say all this is, the Texans' falling to a 4 win team doesn't really have anything to do with his contract. They were a mess before he even signed the contract. They fell to a 4 win team because Bill O'Brien made, conceivably, every awful decision a GM can possibly make in regards to player personnel before finally being fired.

I really enjoyed watching this video about the team's collapse and how it was caused by BoB

I have to completely disagree with this point.  They knew Watson was a star and they had to make some of those moves in preparation for his contract, and the mere presence of his contract makes if very difficult to solve any way but through the draft.  I agree, though, that they made some real bone-headed moves.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-14-2021, 11:24 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I am very interested in seeing how Fields plays in the NFL. He could be a Watson like player. I am a bit weary of OSU's offense since they have produced no meaningful NFL talent at QB in the last...forever (seriously, has there ever been an OSU QB that has had success in the NFL?), but Fields does look like the real deal. 

I am really hoping he is drafted in the top 4. That will give us a really good chance of getting Sewell at 5 if Lawrence, Wilson, Fields and one other player goes before us, which may be Devonta Smith after that national championship game.

Crossing my fingers :)

I think our % chances and the players at #5 fall like this:

Sewell there and selected:  50% 

Sewell gone and Chase selected:  40% 

Sewell and Chase gone and they trade back:  10%

I would be very happy with either of the first two scenarios.  I don't really want to miss out on both of them and select a less talent even if it means an additional 3rd round pick.

I view both Chase and Sewell as transformative talents for our team.  Of course, there is risk with any selection, but I view these two as having a VERY high probability of success and they also fit a need.  Perfect solutions, either one.  

[CJD]

(01-14-2021, 01:33 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I have to completely disagree with this point.  They knew Watson was a star and they had to make some of those moves in preparation for his contract, and the mere presence of his contract makes if very difficult to solve any way but through the draft.  I agree, though, that they made some real bone-headed moves.  

But those moves didn't save money. If they were worried about cap space, they wouldn't have traded a 2nd round pick in a WR heavy draft for a 10+ million AAV WR. They wouldn't have traded away a 10 million AAV LT and then trade for and sign a 22 million AAV LT. They wouldn't have taken on a 10+ million AAV RB as part of their attempt to get rid of a WR who was about to cost them 20+ million AAV. Those moved don't really shed money. They just shift where the money is spent.

[CJD]

(01-14-2021, 12:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The talk is: Watson carries a 3 first rd price tag, with a top 5OA counting as 2 1st rounders.

So IF we wanted DW it would cost Burrow and our #5OA.

Steelers would probably have to surrender their entire 2021 draft and RD 1 2022.

Yea, I would be surprised if the Steelers pulled that trigger. But maybe, who knows. That price tag of Burrow and our #5OA assumes that Burrow, a #1 overall pick, is only worth 1 first round pick (in the framework of a top 5 pick being worth 2 first rounders). I'm not sure about that. Maybe if they returned next year's first round pick in exchange?

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-14-2021, 11:25 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Ohhhh, c'mon Racer. How is Fields possibly the best athlete you've seen at QB in ages when Lamar Jackson just came out three years ago? Or Kyler Murray two years ago? Hell, say what you will about Pryor and his QB abilities, but he was such a stellar athlete that he switched to receiver and recorded a 1000 yard season. Robert Griffin, Mariota, the list goes on-and-on. Fields is a good athlete but there are plenty of other QBs that are legitimately great athletes and not just 'good'.

Because Fields is 6'3" and 230 lbs and moves like a RB.  Both Lamar Jackson and Murray are tiny by comparison.  Fields impresses me that he has crazy long speed, but also has great strength and quick-twitch phone booth quickness.  There were times where he stuck his foot in the ground and left people in his dust.  

Calling Fields a "good" athlete is your right, but he is way beyond good.  Again, they tried to make him a pocket QB to protect and develop him.  Murray threw a TON of his passes outside the pocket, as did Jackson, and both struggle when there aren't throwing lanes open due to their size.  Fields was rushing on occasion when he had to.  It wasn't schemed as it is with Murray and Jackson.  There were only a few plays where you saw his pure athleticism as a rusher, and he is crazy good.  

I'm sure this will get chalked up as an OSU homer, but I am far from that.  Fields is a ridiculous talent, athletically speaking.  I can't help but wonder if Urban Meyer going to Jax won't pull something like a ridiculous trade for Lawrence, and draft Fields and get a ton for the first overall pick to build his team around him.  I think he knows Fields as well as anyone.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-14-2021, 01:41 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: But those moves didn't save money. If they were worried about cap space, they wouldn't have traded a 2nd round pick in a WR heavy draft for a 10+ million AAV WR. They wouldn't have traded away a 10 million AAV LT and then trade for and sign a 22 million AAV LT. They wouldn't have taken on a 10+ million AAV RB as part of their attempt to get rid of a WR who was about to cost them 20+ million AAV. Those moved don't really shed money. They just shift where the money is spent.

That's exactly what they did.  They let go of their best player outside of Watson for a RB and a much smaller contract.  The move with the Left Tackles was more of a panic move to "win now" as they were a playoff team and thought with a better option at LT they could have gotten over the top.  Wrong.  You can criticize the moves all day long (and they should be) but in the end, Watson's contract is a huge issue compared to a rookie deal.  

Honestly, if I am the Jets, though, I would think long and hard about taking Watson and giving up the #1 overall pick if Houston would throw in another pick, like the 2nd rounder.  The Jets can't afford to miss on a QB.  A sure thing in Watson would be tempting for that train wreck of a team.  

[Dr.Z]

Watson nearly single-handedly won games for them las yea with a depleted wr core. Unless the situation gets much uglier, I don’t see him going anywhere. And I wouldn’t trade Burrow for him either for many of the cap/cost implications referenced. I might not do it even if we were playing hypothetical make believe trades where those variables weren’t factored.

[KillerGoose]

(01-14-2021, 01:50 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Because Fields is 6'3" and 230 lbs and moves like a RB.  Both Lamar Jackson and Murray are tiny by comparison.  Fields impresses me that he has crazy long speed, but also has great strength and quick-twitch phone booth quickness.  There were times where he stuck his foot in the ground and left people in his dust.  

Calling Fields a "good" athlete is your right, but he is way beyond good.  Again, they tried to make him a pocket QB to protect and develop him.  Murray threw a TON of his passes outside the pocket, as did Jackson, and both struggle when there aren't throwing lanes open due to their size.  Fields was rushing on occasion when he had to.  It wasn't schemed as it is with Murray and Jackson.  There were only a few plays where you saw his pure athleticism as a rusher, and he is crazy good.  

I'm sure this will get chalked up as an OSU homer, but I am far from that.  Fields is a ridiculous talent, athletically speaking.  I can't help but wonder if Urban Meyer going to Jax won't pull something like a ridiculous trade for Lawrence, and draft Fields and get a ton for the first overall pick to build his team around him.  I think he knows Fields as well as anyone.  

We will have to agree to disagree then. I see a good athlete, I don't see "best athlete in ages" when I watch Fields. You call Lamar tiny, but he is 6'2 and 216 pounds, likely runs a 4.3 with elite agility and insane body control. He is arguably the best athlete to play QB in the NFL, ever. Kyler is also an insane athlete, despite his size. He is 5'10, but 207 pounds. Also likely runs a 4.3 and he is able to make defenses look silly. Guys like Robert Griffin (6'2, 223) and Mariota (6'4, 222 pounds) also fit the bill of great athletes. They had schemed rushes for them because they ARE elite athletes and it is such a dangerous weapon, why wouldn't you use it? If you have an elite athlete at QB, you don't ignore that. You implement that into your offense. 

Fields is obviously going to be a running threat, but when I hear someone talking about an elite athlete, I think of their homerun ability. Lamar is a threat to take it home on any single play. Kyler is a threat to take it home on any single play. I don't see that with Fields, and I certainly don't think he is leading the pack with guys like Lamar, Griffin, Murray, Newton, Mariota, Pryor and others all fitting the bill. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-14-2021, 02:31 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: We will have to agree to disagree then. I see a good athlete, I don't see "best athlete in ages" when I watch Fields. You call Lamar tiny, but he is 6'2 and 216 pounds, likely runs a 4.3 with elite agility and insane body control. He is arguably the best athlete to play QB in the NFL, ever. Kyler is also an insane athlete, despite his size. He is 5'10, but 207 pounds. Also likely runs a 4.3 and he is able to make defenses look silly. Guys like Robert Griffin (6'2, 223) and Mariota (6'4, 222 pounds) also fit the bill of great athletes. They had schemed rushes for them because they ARE elite athletes and it is such a dangerous weapon, why wouldn't you use it? If you have an elite athlete at QB, you don't ignore that. You implement that into your offense. 

Fields is obviously going to be a running threat, but when I hear someone talking about an elite athlete, I think of their homerun ability. Lamar is a threat to take it home on any single play. Kyler is a threat to take it home on any single play. I don't see that with Fields, and I certainly don't think he is leading the pack with guys like Lamar, Griffin, Murray, Newton, Mariota, Pryor and others all fitting the bill. 

Jackson is the only guy I see as a superior athlete to Fields on this list, but even then, he isn't as big and strong, and Fields, IMHO, is a better passer of the ball.  The Ravens caught the league off guard last year with the middle of the field attack and based of a run-heavy formation.  He rightfully won the NFL MVP that year, but he isn't tearing up the league with his arm this year.  He added some size and strength when he came in to the league, but I can't help but think that running is so much a part of his game, that his injury likelihood is greater than most QBs.  Thus far, he has proven that wrong.  

[Destro]

(01-14-2021, 12:46 AM)Nately120 Wrote: That's a pretty high peak, though.  

Yeah, but I still think that is all. I'm a bit older ( not as much as some, but you know ), and I have seen many a fantastic season or two out of players for them to just fizzle. Now, I don't think Watson is a bum or will not be good, I just think, myself, we have seen the best of him. May light it up for another decade, but I'm betting not. 

Hell, Burrow may become what I hope. Could he be the next Tim Couch or Sam Bradford or could be the next Aiken or Manning? I don't know, but I'd roll the dice that he will be elite.

[t3r3e3]

Talented rookie QB contracts are gold in the NFL. A franchise QB on a rookie deal frees up cap space to sign impact free agents and pay performers on extensions. While we know the Bengals Jesuit of too tuer free agents is very limited to nonexistent, having the franchise QB on a cheap deal is the best situation a NFL GM can be in.

Trading Burrow for Watson would also likely cost some draft picks. The Texans want draft capital, and Mike Brown isn’t giving it up.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-13-2021, 04:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So if I'm reading the responses correctly. IF Burrow becomes arguably the 2nd best QB in the NFL when contract time rolls around; we should look for a rookie?

Personally, I'd have a hard time saying no. Deshaun would love to receive the protection he'd get from this oline.

FWIW, Deshaun is 13 months older than Joe.

Stop it. 


The age was one factor in my "no", but the biggest one has been repeated already; contract.

Of course that doesn't mean to look for a rookie when he makes bank. It just means you have the opportunity to build while he is on his rookie contract. <--This has already been said many times by now, but i'm not gonna read the whole thread and then come alllll the way back here and reply. 

[BoomerFan]

No. Burrow has formed a connection with this team and has Ohio roots. Chemistry is one of those intangibles that we forget about. Any new QB is probably going to take at least a year to form chemistry with these players.

[Shake n Blake]

No...for many reasons.

1. Burrow is on a rookie deal.
2. Watson was unhappy in Houston dealing with less than what he would in Cincy.
3. It would show a lack of loyalty to our biggest star player.
4. Burrow is currently injured, so really this wouldn't happen in any reality.
5. Just no.

[GodFather]

A message for the 8 people who voted yes  

For the 8 who voted yes