Receiver in first round?

[TheFan]

(01-15-2021, 01:36 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Mid to late first rounder.

You never know when it comes to QBs man. Stats wise this year he's had as good a year as anyone in the last number of years outside of Burrow. 

[PDub80]

(01-15-2021, 10:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I wouldn't put Walter Football in the Top 3 of what I would consider accurate projections in terms of prospect rankings.
Ross was accurately mocked because we knew the Bengals wanted a WR to replace LaFell and it was reported the Bengals loved Ross after they met with him.

Other site projections for Ross:
PFF - 19th
SI - 18th
Mayock - 14th
CBS Sports - 16th

In terms of Price:
Mayock - 45th
SI - 45th
CBS Sports - 47th
PFF - 69th

EDIT - Let me clarify I'm talking about prospect rankings, not mocking where they go. A mock factors in need whereas prospect rankings are purely based on talent.

You're moving the goaline a bit here on me. I responded to your post where you said they were taken higher than projected.

Projected pick & overall player rankings are two different things. A lot of factors go into where a guy is picked, by whom, and why. Talent or prospect rankings are a totally different story.

Both of the players we are discussing were picked roughly where they were thought to go. Price fell in projections late due to his injury, which turned out to not be a factor... at least for the Bengals.

Regardless, the point I was making is that, based on how the draft fell at the time, neither of those guys were doofus level reach picks. We can point to a lot stranger stuff over the last 20 years that the Bengals have done regarding the draft.

Hell, I once threw a remote through a Panasonic rear projection LCD when the Bengals passed on Steven Jackson.... TWICE. I swore to never get THAT angry about the Bengals again. But then, that Dre K pick came across the screen and, well, let's just say it took a lot of control to not erupt.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-15-2021, 06:17 PM)PDub80 Wrote: You're moving the goaline a bit here on me. I responded to your post where you said they were taken higher than projected.

Projected pick & overall player rankings are two different things. A lot of factors go into where a guy is picked, by whom, and why. Talent or prospect rankings are a totally different story.

Both of the players we are discussing were picked roughly where they were thought to go. Price fell in projections late due to his injury, which turned out to not be a factor... at least for the Bengals.

Regardless, the point I was making is that, based on how the draft fell at the time, neither of those guys were doofus level reach picks. We can point to a lot stranger stuff over the last 20 years that the Bengals have done regarding the draft.

Hell, I once threw a remote through a Panasonic rear projection LCD when the Bengals passed on Steven Jackson.... TWICE. I swore to never get THAT angry about the Bengals again. But then, that Dre K pick came across the screen and, well, let's just say it took a lot of control to not erupt.

Ross was less of a doofus pick but Price definitely was. Felt like a reach to me. I would have been ok him being taken in early Rd 2 but I didn't want him at 21.

[PDub80]

(01-15-2021, 06:25 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ross was less of a doofus pick but Price definitely was. Felt like a reach to me. I would have been ok him being taken in early Rd 2 but I didn't want him at 21.

^ That's super fair. I didn't love the Price pick myself, either. Especially with the combine injury. A G w short arms and 1 year of play at C wasn't having me feeling great.

If it were an option, trading back would have been good. That draft had 3 "can't miss" centers and, well, guess what... 2 of them missed and Ragnow turned out to be an outstanding player.

I would be thrilled with Jamarr Chase IF they address the line in the FA period.

[Bilbo Saggins]

(01-15-2021, 05:13 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The Bengals are taking Chase. It's written in stone.

Deal with it. 

Nah, Chase is too healthy. The hand injury opened things up nicely for Smith. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-15-2021, 11:40 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Nah, Chase is too healthy. The hand injury opened things up nicely for Smith. 

And Waddle with the ankle. They have options...

[Devils Advocate]

(01-15-2021, 03:50 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I said this in another thread and I'll stand by it here.

No to a WR in round 1.

New England won with no name WRs for years. How? Good QB, good coaching, great O-line and an attacking defense.
Green Bay shows up every year winning their division. How many top tier WR's do they have? One.

Protect Burrow and get a nasty attacking D.
If Burrow is your franchise and the guy and as good as he is supposed to be (all the pre-draft comparison) then he should make average WRs look great.

This. We don’t need a WR.

This is why I had a problem (after the fact) they kept AJ. I believe they kept him as a security blanket for Joe. It speaks volumes to me how much they underestimated Joe’s moxie. We don’t need stud receivers (we have 2 already).
We can’t draft because somebody might get hurt. That’s a stupid draft philosophy.

[PDub80]

(01-16-2021, 08:31 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: This. We don’t need a WR.

This is why I had a problem (after the fact) they kept AJ. I believe they kept him as a security blanket for Joe. It speaks volumes to me how much they underestimated Joe’s moxie. We don’t need stud receivers (we have 2 already).
We can’t draft because somebody might get hurt. That’s a stupid draft philosophy.

Reacjing for need is also a bad strategy. Can we agree on that?

The Bengals could NOT stretch the field last season or the one prior. A dynamic, down the field wr would be good. So would CB. So would D Line. So would O line.... as long as the talent warrants it.

Free agency will be a big indicator of what the Bengals needs are come draft time.

Also. I literally ? when you said NE didn't need WRs because they had a good QB. Uhhhh, you mean the greatest QB of all time? They surrounded him with awesome talent almost his entire career. His first few years he wasn't asked to carry the team, but that was a different NFL.

Same w Rodgers. He may be the 2nd greatest QB ever and he's been in the league a long long time doing it. He has had plenty of big time weapons. To expect Burrow to just be at that point in his career after 1/2 a season and a huge knee injury is weird to me.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-16-2021, 08:31 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: This. We don’t need a WR.

This is why I had a problem (after the fact) they kept AJ. I believe they kept him as a security blanket for Joe. It speaks volumes to me how much they underestimated Joe’s moxie. We don’t need stud receivers (we have 2 already).
We can’t draft because somebody might get hurt. That’s a stupid draft philosophy.

There seems to be some idea here that you only need 2 good WR’s. You don’t. You need 3. Especially in ZT’s offense. Not saying they absolutely have to take one the top guys in the 1st round, but it’s a huge need.

[Devils Advocate]

(01-16-2021, 08:44 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: There seems to be some idea here that you only need 2 good WR’s. You don’t. You need 3. Especially in ZT’s offense. Not saying they absolutely have to take one the top guys in the 1st round, but it’s a huge need.

I don’t completely disagree but we have serviceable back ups.

I don’t trust Zac’s offense this far. Perhaps he should tweak it a bit.

[Devils Advocate]

(01-16-2021, 08:41 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Reacjing for need is also a bad strategy. Can we agree on that?

The Bengals could NOT stretch the field last season or the one prior. A dynamic, down the field wr would be good. So would CB. So would D Line. So would O line.... as long as the talent warrants it.

Free agency will be a big indicator of what the Bengals needs are come draft time.

Also. I literally ? when you said NE didn't need WRs because they had a good QB. Uhhhh, you mean the greatest QB of all time? They surrounded him with awesome talent almost his entire career. His first few years he wasn't asked to carry the team, but that was a different NFL.

Same w Rodgers. He may be the 2nd greatest QB ever and he's been in the league a long long time doing it. He has had plenty of big time weapons. To expect Burrow to just be at that point in his career after 1/2 a season and a huge knee injury is weird to me.

It’s within the realm of possibility that the reason we can’t stretch the field is because we don’t have the time- not because we can’t get down there. Also- Joe needs to be more accurate down field too. Also- I suspect we have tells that the damn near every defense picks up on. So it’s a little harder to stretch the field when they know you’re trying to stretch the field. I do not believe that it’s because we lack speed. Lots of teams don’t have a 4.2 guy but have no problem getting it down field.

Also- a WR’s release is pretty important to getting down field. So it could be that our receivers have shitty release. There’s just so many factors.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-16-2021, 08:56 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: I don’t completely disagree but we have serviceable back ups.

I don’t trust Zac’s offense this far. Perhaps he should tweak it a bit.

I’m not even talking backups. Taylor mostly runs 11 personnel. That means we need 3 good starters. Just imagine how much better the offense would have been this season with someone more productive than AJ out there.

[Devils Advocate]

(01-16-2021, 09:15 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m not even talking backups. Taylor mostly runs 11 personnel. That means we need 3 good starters. Just imagine how much better the offense would have been this season with someone more productive than AJ out there.

I won’t argue with AJ being unproductive.

Match ups are important too.how many times do our receivers get covered by LBers? Not many I don’t think.

[Daddy-O]

(01-04-2021, 01:47 PM)Whatever Wrote: I would take Sewell if he falls to us, regardless of FA.  Kid's potential is off the charts.  That said, if he's not there, you have to look at who's worth taking at that slot.  It's a bad DL class at the top.  There isn't another OL worth taking there.  There's a couple of WR's worth taking there.

Need is one thing, but it's foolish to pass on an AJ Green type prospect for a Michael Johnson type prospect just because of position group.  A prime AJ Green is going to help win more games than a prime MJ.  

This.  It's a no brainer at #5, unless you have all the playmakers already, which we don't.  We desperately need a deep threat.  QB's, WR's and CB's make game changing plays that win way more games than OL and DL.  Not that they don't make make important plays, they do, but not to the level of elite skilled positions.

Get some help at OL in free agency and let Frank Pollack do what he doesn't best.  We do need an edge rusher but there is no game changer at #5 so do that in the later rounds and possibly pick someone also in FA.

Now if Sewell is there at #5 it's a difficult conversation if he is really "that" good.  If he is he won't be there at #5 anyway.

[BengalsRocker]

(01-16-2021, 08:44 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: There seems to be some idea here that you only need 2 good WR’s. You don’t. You need 3. Especially in ZT’s offense. Not saying they absolutely have to take one the top guys in the 1st round, but it’s a huge need.

Plus, who is to say that one of these 1st rd WRs might even rise above the two we already have? *Gasp* It's a thought...

Now wouldn't that be a nice place to be for years.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-16-2021, 11:59 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Plus, who is to say that one of these 1st rd WRs might even rise above the two we already have? *Gasp* It's a thought...

Now wouldn't that be a nice place to be for years.

It is less about rising above but about top end of positions plus overall performance of each position.  Would you rather have two very good Wrs (Boyd/Higgins) and lack of depth and add 1st round WR prospect  vs. one very good DLineman (Reader) and lack of depth... plus WRs as a whole performed better than our Dline, Oline and LBS as a group..

FA might work some of those comparisons out and it could also take WR off the board in 1st round if we sign a quality FA WR.

[Hammerstripes]

The one thing to consider is that it is possible that neither Chase or Devonta is on the board when we pick.

Depending how the Jets view Darnold, they could easily take a WR. The Dolphins could as well. I'd be shocked, but it's not out of the possibility.

[RiverRat13]

(01-16-2021, 01:36 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: The one thing to consider is that it is possible that neither Chase or Devonta is on the board when we pick.

Depending how the Jets view Darnold, they could easily take a WR. The Dolphins could as well. I'd be shocked, but it's not out of the possibility.

If both are gone, that means either Sewell is there or they will be in a great spot to trade down. It does sound like the Jets may not go QB, but if they don't, they would be a trade down candidate.

[PDub80]

(01-16-2021, 09:00 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: It’s within the realm of possibility that the reason we can’t stretch the field is because we don’t have the time- not because we can’t get down there. Also- Joe needs to be more accurate down field too. Also- I suspect we have tells that the damn near every defense picks up on. So it’s a little harder to stretch the field when they know you’re trying to stretch the field. I do not believe that it’s because we lack speed. Lots of teams don’t have a 4.2 guy but have no problem getting it down field.

Also- a WR’s release is pretty important to getting down field. So it could be that our receivers have shitty release. There’s just so many factors.

Well, lot's of things are within the realm of possibility if we're just making things up with our imagination.

You're speculating on all of the above. The eye test shows that the Bengals wrs do not get separation deep. That's a fact. AJ Green got ZERO to no separation throughout the year on ANY route.

Higgins can, but isn't a burner. Boyd is a possession guy and not running away from anyone. Tate is a possession guy. Ross is a bum. AJ Green is done.

There is no threat deep.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-16-2021, 02:40 PM)RiverRat13 Wrote: If both are gone, that means either Sewell is there or they will be in a great spot to trade down. It does sound like the Jets may not go QB, but if they don't, they would be a trade down candidate.

Not 100%, I think the nightmare scenario for us is:

1.  Lawrence
2.  Chase/Devonta
3.  Chase/Devonta
4.  Sewell

While we may see some trade options, the teams know that the Bengals aren't taking a QB, which may make the pick less valuable.