The bFirst Mock (21)

[*bfine32*]

PK1- Jackson Jaguars- TREVOR LAWRENCE/QB

PK2- NY Jets- PENEI SEWELL/OT

PK3- Miami Dolphins- DEVONTA SMITH/WR

PK4- Atlanta Falcons- JUSTIN FIELDS/QB

PK5- Cincinnati Bengals

RD1- KWITY PAYE/DE (6'4"/277)


At least one dlineman has gone in the first 5 picks of every draft but one in the last 15 years. Why? Because they are valuable. We will have the luxury of picking the top prospect in this draft. KP has the twitch of an undersized tush specialist, but clocks in at 6’4” 275. Dude is a freak athlete. Ran a 4.5 for college scouts and won his state’s High School Long Jump championship. The son of an immigrant from Liberia, hard work has been fused into his DNA. I but a lot of stock in a player’s character and this guy’s is outstanding.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2019/10/11/michigan-football-kwity-paye/3904856002/

RD2- TREY SMITH/OG (6'5"/330)


The term beast gets thrown around too much; but take time to watch this 6’5” 330 pound child move people. Smith came to UT as a highly recruited OT but after a medical scare found his home at RG. This kid has every tool he just needs to technique help due to position move, illness, and a covid season. A little more about his character:
https://www.knoxnews.com/story/sports/college/university-of-tennessee/football/2020/01/13/trey-smith-honors-mother-dorsetta-returning-tennessee-vols/4421903002/

RD3- SPENCER BROWN/OT (6'9"/321)


To complete the right side wall for JB we bring in the 6’9” 321 pound athletic lineman. This kid came into college 100 pounds lighter than he is right now and the gains are weight room, not McDonalds. Dude has 35” arms and can bench over 500 ils. Reminds me of Whitworth; huge guy with not an ounce of fat.  

RD4- TRE’ MCKITTY/TE (6'5"/241)


Kyle Pitts will go in the top half of the first rd and rightly so, but a guy of exact build and similar skill set will drop to the 4th due to getting lost in the shuffle at UGA. Tre transferred from FSU where he was quite productive. If he performs well at the combine stock may rise.

RD5- DEOMMODORE LENOIR/CB (5'11"/202)

Sometimes you see a player and like him for some unknown reason. DL is not particularly fast or big, but he appears to be all heart. Reminds me of our own Mack Alexander or recently departed Daquese Dennard.

RD6- ERROLL THOMPSON/LB (6'1/250)

A one dimensional run defender in the mold of Josh Bynes

RD7- TRAVIS JONES/DT (6'4"/336)

Big man that's still learning the position. Played OG in High School.

EVAN MCPHERSON/K (Who cares)

Quote:

We need somebody.

[J24]

Can Paye play inside in Nickle packages? Like the draft but would like to see a CB drafted a little earlier especially if we lose Jackson in free agency.

[Nicomo Cosca]

We only have 3 WR’s signed for next season, and you aren’t drafting a single one?

[*bfine32*]

(01-18-2021, 03:36 PM)J24 Wrote: Can Paye play inside in  Nickle packages? Like the draft but would like to see a CB drafted a little earlier especially if we lose Jackson in free agency.

There were times KP lined up at the 1 tech for Michigan. 

I hear you on CB but we cannot draft everything. I do think we lose WJIII but keep Mack. So a dime package of Waynes, Mack, Phillips, and Lenoir should bfine; especially if we can get some pressure on the opposing QB

[*bfine32*]

(01-18-2021, 03:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We only have 3 WR’s signed for next season, and you aren’t drafting a single one?

No. I'd rather see us address WR in FA. Plus many consider Tre as a Big WR. 

Lots of young affordable talent available:

Chris Conley
Zay Williams
DeMarcus Robinson
Allen Lazard

[Hammerstripes]

Hate the first pick, but the rest looks good.

[*bfine32*]

(01-19-2021, 04:41 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Hate the first pick, but the rest looks good.

After his workouts he will fly up draft boards. 

[*ochocincos*]

Paye reminds me of Rashan Gary.
Gary is about same size as Paye (6'5", 277 vs 6'4", 275) and also had lackluster stats in college.
Paye's most sacks in a season were 6.5, Gary's most were 5.5.

Gary ended up going 12th overall to Packers in 2019 because of a freak Combine, and here have been his stats since then:
2019 (244 snaps - 24%) - 21 tackles, 2.0 sacks, 3 TFL, 5 total pressures.
2020 (456 snaps - 44%) - 35 tackles, 5.0 sacks, 5 TFL, 19 total pressures.

That's not the impact I would hope an early 1st rounder to have in the first 2 years of his career.

If Paye (or any DE) is drafted by the Bengals in 1st round, I'd expect/want 7+ sacks, 20+ pressures as a rookie.

[Whatever]

(01-18-2021, 03:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No. I'd rather see us address WR in FA. Plus many consider Tre as a Big WR. 

Lots of young affordable talent available:

Chris Conley
Zay Williams
DeMarcus Robinson
Allen Lazard

WR is still one of the more expensive positions to fill in FA when compared to equivalent players at other positions, like CB, stack LB, TE, and K.  Plus Jones isn't even going to make the 53 with Wren and Tupou returning.  

There's also no way I take a DE with 11.5 sacks in 4 years at 5.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-21-2021, 01:48 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: The packers also signed Z. Smith and P. Smith to $100 mill in contracts the same year they later drafted Gary and he’s been playing behind those two guys. Good luck getting stats in that situation.

Yes, I am well aware they signed both of those guys and the fact he's been a rotational piece.

But if Paye was drafted, he would also be a rotational piece unless Lawson doesn't return.

My opinion still stands. I would not want a 1st round DE who doesn't get 7+ sacks, even if they are just part of a rotation. Top 10 picks should not take multiple years to get to full-time starter status IMO.

[Luvnit2]

(01-21-2021, 01:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yes, I am well aware they signed both of those guys and the fact he's been a rotational piece.

But if Paye was drafted, he would also be a rotational piece unless Lawson doesn't return.

My opinion still stands. I would not want a 1st round DE who doesn't get 7+ sacks, even if they are just part of a rotation. Top 10 picks should not take multiple years to get to full-time starter status IMO.

Paye may be the next Young or the next Clowney, but he has worse results than both coming out of college. So, I have to agree with ochocincos

If they draft him and he is mediocre or rotational in year one, then the fan base would be madder than a hornet Add it to already as mad as a hornet whose nest was destroyed. The Bengals took the consensus #1 pick Burrow, he goy hurt but was on way to rookie records. but even if he was like Tua in Miami who did not look or play well in year 1, fans would have accepted it.

I have not seen draft boards with Paye in top 5, not many in top 10 of the draft so it would look like a reach before he plays a snap. He would be crucified if he was not a stud pass rusher in year 1 by the fans, so huge risk for FO and ZT to draft him at #5.

[*bfine32*]

(01-21-2021, 01:43 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Paye reminds me of Rashan Gary.
Gary is about same size as Paye (6'5", 277 vs 6'4", 275) and also had lackluster stats in college.
Paye's most sacks in a season were 6.5, Gary's most were 5.5.

Gary ended up going 12th overall to Packers in 2019 because of a freak Combine, and here have been his stats since then:
2019 (244 snaps - 24%) - 21 tackles, 2.0 sacks, 3 TFL, 5 total pressures.
2020 (456 snaps - 44%) - 35 tackles, 5.0 sacks, 5 TFL, 19 total pressures.

That's not the impact I would hope an early 1st rounder to have in the first 2 years of his career.

If Paye (or any DE) is drafted by the Bengals in 1st round, I'd expect/want 7+ sacks, 20+ pressures as a rookie.

As mentioned RG is on a good team, playing behind 2 studs, and still got twice the sacks as our leader.

RG does not have the bend of KP. I see KP as more of a JPP with all his fingers

(01-21-2021, 01:49 PM)Whatever Wrote: WR is still one of the more expensive positions to fill in FA when compared to equivalent players at other positions, like CB, stack LB, TE, and K.  Plus Jones isn't even going to make the 53 with Wren and Tupou returning.  

There's also no way I take a DE with 11.5 sacks in 4 years at 5.

What pick would you consider appropriate for the top DE in the draft?

[*Synric*]

Kwity Paye put consistent pressure on opposing QBs in 2019 and 2020. In 2020 he had 22 pressures in 4 games. Paye has length weight and athletisim to be a top end pass rusher in the NFL and where he actually struggles is in the run game he could be so much better if he he just let himself penetrate.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-21-2021, 02:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As mentioned RG is on a good team, playing behind 2 studs, and still got twice the sacks as our leader.

RG does not have the bend of KP. I see KP as more of a JPP with all his fingers
What pick would you consider appropriate for the top DE in the draft?

It's hard to say based on team draft needs, but I have the following players for sure above any DEs:
- Lawrence
- Fields
- Wilson
- Sewell
- Chase
- Smith
- Pitts
- Surtain
- Farley
- Darrisaw


As such, I would personally look at a DE in the 11-20 range, but not sooner.
And honestly, I'm not sure I have Paye above Rousseau.
Rousseau had 15.5 sacks and 19.5 TFLs in 14 games.
Paye has  just 11.5 sacks and 23.5 TFLs in double the amount of games.

I'd take the gamble on Rousseau before Paye. Rousseau is also younger than Paye, so I think Rousseau has the higher ceiling.

[*bfine32*]

(01-21-2021, 02:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It's hard to say based on team draft needs, but I have the following players for sure above any DEs:
- Lawrence
- Fields
- Wilson
- Sewell
- Chase
- Smith
- Pitts
- Surtain
- Farley
- Darrisaw


As such, I would personally look at a DE in the 11-20 range, but not sooner.
And honestly, I'm not sure I have Paye above Rousseau.
Rousseau had 15.5 sacks and 19.5 TFLs in 14 games.
Paye has  just 11.5 sacks and 23.5 TFLs in double the amount of games.

I'd take the gamble on Rousseau before Paye. Rousseau is also younger than Paye, so I think Rousseau has the higher ceiling.

Rousseau has the highest ceiling in the draft; but he also has the lowest floor.

Each year we (the forum) get into this BPA vs. Need debate.

We can go ahead and eliminate the QBs from your list.

We don't "need" a starting WR and personally think Chase is the 2nd best WR in this draft. I have Smith going before our pick.

Pitts is a stud but how we use a TE I think someone like McKitty (hey i just realized I mocked a Kwity and a Kitty) offers better value

We do need CB but we do have Waynes and Phillips returning and I think we'll re-sign WJIII or Mack, so it can wait

We do need a OT but I have Penei gone

We damn sure need a pass rusher/DE and Kwity has it all. Keep in mind a perfect comp is Ziggy Ansah and he only had 4.5 sacks his entire college career and had 8 in his rookie NFL season

It's also known I give a little bit of a boost to players that actually put on the pads this year.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-21-2021, 04:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Rousseau has the highest ceiling in the draft; but he also has the lowest floor.

Each year we (the forum) get into this BPA vs. Need debate.

We can go ahead and eliminate the QBs from your list.

We don't "need" a starting WR and personally think Chase is the 2nd best WR in this draft. I have Smith going before our pick.

Pitts is a stud but how we use a TE I think someone like McKitty (hey i just realized I mocked a Kwity and a Kitty) offers better value

We do need CB but we do have Waynes and Phillips returning and I think we'll re-sign WJIII or Mack, so it can wait

We do need a OT but I have Penei gone

We damn sure need a pass rusher/DE and Kwity has it all. Keep in mind a perfect comp is Ziggy Ansah and he only had 4.5 sacks his entire college career and had 8 in his rookie NFL season

It's also known I give a little bit of a boost to players that actually put on the pads this year.

I totally get your points. Logic checks out. I'd still go Darrisaw (or even Slater) over one of the DEs.
I think Day 2 of the draft is the real value for pass rushers in this class.

[*bfine32*]

(01-21-2021, 04:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I totally get your points. Logic checks out. I'd still go Darrisaw (or even Slater) over one of the DEs.
I think Day 2 of the draft is the real value for pass rushers in this class.

I'd be ecstatic with Darrisaw or Surtain and be happy with any non-QB on your list .


Who knows; maybe KP doesn't make the bFiner mock and he doesn't have dreads

[Essex Johnson]

(01-18-2021, 03:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: PK1- Jackson Jaguars- TREVOR LAWRENCE/QB

PK2- NY Jets- PENEI SEWELL/OT

PK3- Miami Dolphins- DEVONTA SMITH/WR

PK4- Atlanta Falcons- JUSTIN FIELDS/QB

PK5- Cincinnati Bengals

RD1- KWITY PAYE/DE (6'4"/277)


At least one dlineman has gone in the first 5 picks of every draft but one in the last 15 years. Why? Because they are valuable. We will have the luxury of picking the top prospect in this draft. KP has the twitch of an undersized tush specialist, but clocks in at 6’4” 275. Dude is a freak athlete. Ran a 4.5 for college scouts and won his state’s High School Long Jump championship. The son of an immigrant from Liberia, hard work has been fused into his DNA. I but a lot of stock in a player’s character and this guy’s is outstanding.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2019/10/11/michigan-football-kwity-paye/3904856002/

RD2- TREY SMITH/OG (6'5"/330)


The term beast gets thrown around too much; but take time to watch this 6’5” 330 pound child move people. Smith came to UT as a highly recruited OT but after a medical scare found his home at RG. This kid has every tool he just needs to technique help due to position move, illness, and a covid season. A little more about his character:
https://www.knoxnews.com/story/sports/college/university-of-tennessee/football/2020/01/13/trey-smith-honors-mother-dorsetta-returning-tennessee-vols/4421903002/

RD3- SPENCER BROWN/OT (6'9"/321)


To complete the right side wall for JB we bring in the 6’9” 321 pound athletic lineman. This kid came into college 100 pounds lighter than he is right now and the gains are weight room, not McDonalds. Dude has 35” arms and can bench over 500 ils. Reminds me of Whitworth; huge guy with not an ounce of fat.  

RD4- TRE’ MCKITTY/TE (6'5"/241)


Kyle Pitts will go in the top half of the first rd and rightly so, but a guy of exact build and similar skill set will drop to the 4th due to getting lost in the shuffle at UGA. Tre transferred from FSU where he was quite productive. If he performs well at the combine stock may rise.

RD5- DEOMMODORE LENOIR/CB (5'11"/202)

Sometimes you see a player and like him for some unknown reason. DL is not particularly fast or big, but he appears to be all heart. Reminds me of our own Mack Alexander or recently departed Daquese Dennard.

RD6- ERROLL THOMPSON/LB (6'1/250)

A one dimensional run defender in the mold of Josh Bynes

RD7- TRAVIS JONES/DT (6'4"/336)

Big man that's still learning the position. Played OG in High School.

EVAN MCPHERSON/K (Who cares)

We need somebody.

Very solid draft picks... i would be ok if it played out that way...  you covered the areas of need... some say you did not pick a WR but some want Pitt and say he is that TE/WR hybrid but it seems you did that with McKitty.  

[Whatever]

(01-21-2021, 02:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As mentioned RG is on a good team, playing behind 2 studs, and still got twice the sacks as our leader.

RG does not have the bend of KP. I see KP as more of a JPP with all his fingers
What pick would you consider appropriate for the top DE in the draft?

Preston Smith had 4 sacks this year.  He's paid like a stud, but didn't play like it this year.

If the top DE in the draft only has 11.5 sacks in 4 years, I would say 20's, as it's pretty obviously a terrible DE class, and that's only if they're an athletic freak.  Now, somebody will likely reach based on need and positional value, but do you want to be the team that spent a Top 5 pick on a player that would be drafted much lower in a normal year.  Would you take a QB with 2500 passing yards in 4 years at 5 because he's the best QB in the class and you need one?

Our reality is that the Bengals franchise cornerstones have gotten old and need to be replaced.  AJ, Geno, Dunlap, Whit, Dalton, and Burfict have all hit the wall and/or left.  The need for a franchise cornerstone type of player at 5 is much bigger than any positional need.  Paye isn't that type of player.

[*bfine32*]

(01-22-2021, 01:21 AM)Whatever Wrote: Preston Smith had 4 sacks this year.  He's paid like a stud, but didn't play like it this year.

If the top DE in the draft only has 11.5 sacks in 4 years, I would say 20's, as it's pretty obviously a terrible DE class, and that's only if they're an athletic freak.  Now, somebody will likely reach based on need and positional value, but do you want to be the team that spent a Top 5 pick on a player that would be drafted much lower in a normal year.  Would you take a QB with 2500 passing yards in 4 years at 5 because he's the best QB in the class and you need one?

Our reality is that the Bengals franchise cornerstones have gotten old and need to be replaced.  AJ, Geno, Dunlap, Whit, Dalton, and Burfict have all hit the wall and/or left.  The need for a franchise cornerstone type of player at 5 is much bigger than any positional need.  Paye isn't that type of player.

Funny how sack total becomes the biggest factor now.

Ziggy Ansah had 4.5 sacks in 3 years, Aaron Rodgers had 2500 passing yards his last year in college and never topped 3,000 in his career, Jalen Ramsey had 3 INTs in his college career and 0 in his last.

The kid only played 4 games this year and still had 22 pressures and over an 87 pass rush grade by PFF.

He's not "only" an athletic freak.