Roster Bonuses & the Cap

[Luvnit2]

Lot of talk that cap will be 175 million versus 210 million projected one year ago. If so, many teams did not prepare for a major reduced salary cap in 2021 so decisions will have to be made,

https://overthecap.com/contract-triggers-calendar/

It appears player contracts activate the roster bonus portion based on their contract, but all by the start of free agency and the new league year.

Very soon we may start seeing cap casualties. No team wants to pay a roster bonus if they are not certain, they can honor the rest of the contract or negotiate a new one. A cut player does not count when calculating comp. picks so no impact on the future potential draft comp. picks.

Teams like the Bengals who did a great job managing the cap (did not do a lot else well) should benefit in 2021.

I think this may be huge year for Bengals in FA.

Thoughts?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-02-2021, 01:24 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Lot of talk that cap will be 175 million versus 210 million projected one year ago. If so, many teams did not prepare for a major reduced salary cap in 2021 so decisions will have to be made,

https://overthecap.com/contract-triggers-calendar/

It appears player contracts activate the roster bonus portion based on their contract, but all by the start of free agency and the new league year.

Very soon we may start seeing cap casualties. No team wants to pay a roster bonus if they are not certain, they can honor the rest of the contract or negotiate a new one. A cut player does not count when calculating comp. picks so no impact on the future potential draft comp. picks.

Teams like the Bengals who did a great job managing the cap (did not do a lot else well) should benefit in 2021.

I think this may be huge year for Bengals in FA.

Thoughts?

Thoughts are I would rather the Bengals have benefitted from trying harder earlier, if it meant that their cap situation was a mess now.

The 10 teams in worst cap space problems right now?

Saints (4 playoffs, 1 NFCC game in the last 5 years)
Eagles (3 playoffs, 1 NFCC win, 1 SB win in the last 5 years)
Falcons (2 playoffs, 1 NFCC win in the last 5 years)
Steelers (3 playoffs, 1 AFCC game in the last 5 years)
Packers (3 playoffs, 3 NFCC games in the last 5 years)
Rams (3 playoffs, 1 NFCC win in the last 5 years)
Chiefs (5 playoffs, 3 AFCC games/2 wins, 1 SB win and another SB to play in the last 5 years)
Texans (3 playoffs in the last 5 years)
Vikings (2 playoffs in the last 5 years)
Bears (2 playoffs in the last 5 years)

The 7 worst cap situations have all been to a conference championship game in the last 5 years. Bengals need to stop "saving" for extensions 3 years from now and start getting the most possible talent they can squeeze out of cap space, no matter how they must manipulate it. Even if it results in a 2 year "reckoning" down the road, is that worse than losing for 5 years with no real hope anyway?

The Patriots started their cap reckoning this year, and I am sure they'd gladly keep the 3 SB wins over the previous 6 years even if they knew it would mean a couple years in 2020-2021 of pain.

[Clark W Griswold]

Hopefully some good O linemen are released. If the cap is less than last year then that could mean a lower price for guys like Thuney/Scherff etc. This could also mean less competition for them if a lot of other teams are up against the cap. (I would also like to see Lawson re-signed)

But this is the Bengals we are talking about so I won’t get too excited until I see some signings.

[Luvnit2]

(02-02-2021, 01:43 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Thoughts are I would rather the Bengals have benefitted from trying harder earlier, if it meant that their cap situation was a mess now.

The 10 teams in worst cap space problems right now?

Saints (4 playoffs, 1 NFCC game in the last 5 years)
Eagles (3 playoffs, 1 NFCC win, 1 SB win in the last 5 years)
Falcons (2 playoffs, 1 NFCC win in the last 5 years)
Steelers (3 playoffs, 1 AFCC game in the last 5 years)
Packers (3 playoffs, 3 NFCC games in the last 5 years)
Rams (3 playoffs, 1 NFCC win in the last 5 years)
Chiefs (5 playoffs, 3 AFCC games/2 wins, 1 SB win and another SB to play in the last 5 years)
Texans (3 playoffs in the last 5 years)
Vikings (2 playoffs in the last 5 years)
Bears (2 playoffs in the last 5 years)

The 7 worst cap situations have all been to a conference championship game in the last 5 years. Bengals need to stop "saving" for extensions 3 years from now and start getting the most possible talent they can squeeze out of cap space, no matter how they must manipulate it. Even if it results in a 2 year "reckoning" down the road, is that worse than losing for 5 years with no real hope anyway?

The Patriots started their cap reckoning this year, and I am sure they'd gladly keep the 3 SB wins over the previous 6 years even if they knew it would mean a couple years in 2020-2021 of pain.

I believe I said this in one sentence in OP.

Yes, I agree I wish we would have spent wisely starting in 2015 when we had a great roster. 

But, we are here now, the past will not help teams that screwed the pooch and now are in cap hell in 2021. I am looking forward, and those teams you mentioned did well, let's revist them again in 2021 and see if they maintained or got better than in 2020.

[Luvnit2]

(02-02-2021, 01:44 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: Hopefully some good O linemen are released. If the cap is less than last year then that could mean a lower price for guys like Thuney/Scherff etc. This could also mean less competition for them if a lot of other teams are up against the cap.  (I would also like to see Lawson re-signed)

But this is the Bengals we are talking about so I won’t get too excited until I see some signings.

Bengals were very active in FA in 2020, sadly the guys they signed mostly got injured so it did not pay off.

[Sled21]

(02-02-2021, 01:24 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Lot of talk that cap will be 175 million versus 210 million projected one year ago. If so, many teams did not prepare for a major reduced salary cap in 2021 so decisions will have to be made,

https://overthecap.com/contract-triggers-calendar/

It appears player contracts activate the roster bonus portion based on their contract, but all by the start of free agency and the new league year.

Very soon we may start seeing cap casualties. No team wants to pay a roster bonus if they are not certain, they can honor the rest of the contract or negotiate a new one. A cut player does not count when calculating comp. picks so no impact on the future potential draft comp. picks.

Teams like the Bengals who did a great job managing the cap (did not do a lot else well) should benefit in 2021.

I think this may be huge year for Bengals in FA.

Thoughts?

Teams like the Bengals who did a great job managing the cap should benefit in 2021.


I think this may be huge year for Bengals in FA.



Thoughts?

Fixed it. You know, this is Jungle Noise, home of Bengals fans. It is possible to say something good about the team without having to take a shot at them as well. 

[Essex Johnson]

(02-02-2021, 01:43 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Thoughts are I would rather the Bengals have benefitted from trying harder earlier, if it meant that their cap situation was a mess now.

The 10 teams in worst cap space problems right now?

Saints (4 playoffs, 1 NFCC game in the last 5 years)
Eagles (3 playoffs, 1 NFCC win, 1 SB win in the last 5 years)
Falcons (2 playoffs, 1 NFCC win in the last 5 years)
Steelers (3 playoffs, 1 AFCC game in the last 5 years)
Packers (3 playoffs, 3 NFCC games in the last 5 years)
Rams (3 playoffs, 1 NFCC win in the last 5 years)
Chiefs (5 playoffs, 3 AFCC games/2 wins, 1 SB win and another SB to play in the last 5 years)
Texans (3 playoffs in the last 5 years)
Vikings (2 playoffs in the last 5 years)
Bears (2 playoffs in the last 5 years)

The 7 worst cap situations have all been to a conference championship game in the last 5 years. Bengals need to stop "saving" for extensions 3 years from now and start getting the most possible talent they can squeeze out of cap space, no matter how they must manipulate it. Even if it results in a 2 year "reckoning" down the road, is that worse than losing for 5 years with no real hope anyway?

The Patriots started their cap reckoning this year, and I am sure they'd gladly keep the 3 SB wins over the previous 6 years even if they knew it would mean a couple years in 2020-2021 of pain.

So what did we do that was effective in the 5 year run of playoffs that is different now ?  do we need to go back to what we were doing from 2011-15 but improve on it to win in the post-season

[*ochocincos*]

(02-02-2021, 03:04 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So what did we do that was effective in the 5 year run of playoffs that is different now ?  do we need to go back to what we were doing from 2011-15 but improve on it to win in the post-season

The Bengals drafted well and a lot of their primary contributors were on rookie deals for most/all of this window.
Andy Dalton
AJ Green
Marvin Jones
Mohamed Sanu
Tyler Eifert
Jermaine Gresham
Kevin Zeitler
Giovani Bernard
Jeremy Hill
Russell Bodine
George Iloka
Dre Kirkpatrick
Vontaze Burfict

They were able to pay good contracts for Leon Hall, Adam Jones, Andrew Whitworth, Clint Boling, Geno Atkins, Carlos Dunlap, Reggie Nelson, and Michael Johnson. Also, Maualuga and Peko.

That's what the Bengals need to get back to. They need to get good play from their guys on rookie deals and use the majority of the money on good vets (internal or external).

[XenoMorph]

(02-02-2021, 01:43 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Thoughts are I would rather the Bengals have benefitted from trying harder earlier, if it meant that their cap situation was a mess now.

The 10 teams in worst cap space problems right now?

Saints (4 playoffs, 1 NFCC game in the last 5 years)
Eagles (3 playoffs, 1 NFCC win, 1 SB win in the last 5 years)
Falcons (2 playoffs, 1 NFCC win in the last 5 years)
Steelers (3 playoffs, 1 AFCC game in the last 5 years)
Packers (3 playoffs, 3 NFCC games in the last 5 years)
Rams (3 playoffs, 1 NFCC win in the last 5 years)
Chiefs (5 playoffs, 3 AFCC games/2 wins, 1 SB win and another SB to play in the last 5 years)
Texans (3 playoffs in the last 5 years)
Vikings (2 playoffs in the last 5 years)
Bears (2 playoffs in the last 5 years)

The 7 worst cap situations have all been to a conference championship game in the last 5 years. Bengals need to stop "saving" for extensions 3 years from now and start getting the most possible talent they can squeeze out of cap space, no matter how they must manipulate it. Even if it results in a 2 year "reckoning" down the road, is that worse than losing for 5 years with no real hope anyway?

The Patriots started their cap reckoning this year, and I am sure they'd gladly keep the 3 SB wins over the previous 6 years even if they knew it would mean a couple years in 2020-2021 of pain.

Spending more isnt the Fix... Spending correctly is.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-02-2021, 03:48 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Spending more isnt the Fix... Spending correctly is.

Agreed, that's why I said the most possible *talent* they can squeeze out of cap space.

If you have a good team, play with the cap to create more space, add some more talent, and become a great team. Don't just settle for being good.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-02-2021, 03:48 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Spending more isnt the Fix... Spending correctly is.

Wait...you're telling me giving big contracts to Bobby Hart, CJ Uzomah, etc. ISN'T what you're supposed to do...?
Or franchise tagging a WR at $18.1 mill to be WR3 on the team?

[Essex Johnson]

(02-02-2021, 03:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The Bengals drafted well and a lot of their primary contributors were on rookie deals for most/all of this window.
Andy Dalton
AJ Green
Marvin Jones
Mohamed Sanu
Tyler Eifert
Jermaine Gresham
Kevin Zeitler
Giovani Bernard
Jeremy Hill
Russell Bodine
George Iloka
Dre Kirkpatrick
Vontaze Burfict

They were able to pay good contracts for Leon Hall, Adam Jones, Andrew Whitworth, Clint Boling, Geno Atkins, Carlos Dunlap, Reggie Nelson, and Michael Johnson. Also, Maualuga and Peko.

That's what the Bengals need to get back to. They need to get good play from their guys on rookie deals and use the majority of the money on good vets (internal or external).

and maybe invest more into a free agency also but target it to most pressing need you think ?

[Essex Johnson]

(02-02-2021, 04:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Wait...you're telling me giving big contracts to Bobby Hart, CJ Uzomah, etc. ISN'T what you're supposed to do...?
Or franchise tagging a WR at $18.1 mill to be WR3 on the team?

I don't think Hart was given a big contract.. 3 year 16.5.. would not be big but I understand if we debate was he worth that contract.. we are talking about signing some tackles at $13 to 16 m  a year for this Free Agent offseason. 

[Okeana]

(02-02-2021, 01:24 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Lot of talk that cap will be 175 million versus 210 million projected one year ago. If so, many teams did not prepare for a major reduced salary cap in 2021 so decisions will have to be made,

https://overthecap.com/contract-triggers-calendar/

It appears player contracts activate the roster bonus portion based on their contract, but all by the start of free agency and the new league year.

Very soon we may start seeing cap casualties. No team wants to pay a roster bonus if they are not certain, they can honor the rest of the contract or negotiate a new one. A cut player does not count when calculating comp. picks so no impact on the future potential draft comp. picks.

Teams like the Bengals who did a great job managing the cap (did not do a lot else well) should benefit in 2021.

I think this may be huge year for Bengals in FA.

Thoughts?

I'm sorry but I find it hard to believe that the cap actually exists when the saints are projected to be 112 million dollars over the cap next year.  Some real fishy shit going on in the NFL

[Okeana]

(02-02-2021, 05:16 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I don't think Hart was given a big contract.. 3 year 16.5.. would not be big but I understand if we debate was he worth that contract.. we are talking about signing some tackles at $13 to 16 m  a year for this Free Agent offseason. 

you pay for what you get.  You pay shit you get shit.  Either you draft and develop or you end up with Bobby Hart.  Knowing this team they will extend hart for 12 million a year.

[Okeana]

(02-02-2021, 04:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Wait...you're telling me giving big contracts to Bobby Hart, CJ Uzomah, etc. ISN'T what you're supposed to do...?
Or franchise tagging a WR at $18.1 mill to be WR3 on the team?

Bengals are the jalopy of the NFL.  They never trade talented players and gain any value, always ride them till the wheels fall off, and break down for a decade.  Palmer was saying this when everyone was toilet papering his house and villainizing him, but fans are stupid.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-02-2021, 05:13 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: and maybe invest more into a free agency also but target it to most pressing need you think ?

It's mostly knowing/admitting what someone's talent level is and paying fair value for it.
Bobby Hart and CJ Uzomah weren't worth the amount they were given.
Uzomah specifically was given 3 years, $18 mill and has put up just 329 yards and 3 TDs in 18 games.
Trae Waynes was paid like a top 10 CB but wasn't even in the Top 20 in terms of performance.
Rey Maualuga was overpaid during his extension in 2015.

Meanwhile, you got actual good players like Marvin Jones and Andrew Whitworth leaving in FA because the Bengals didn't value them enough to make them want to stay.

You don't necessarily pay for need, but you should pay for positional value. QB, OL, DL, and CBs are considered the building blocks of most good teams. Pay good money to good players at those positions. Offensive weapons can be filled with draft picks and cheaper contracts, same with LBs.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-02-2021, 05:31 PM)Okeana Wrote: Bengals are the jalopy of the NFL.  They never trade talented players and gain any value, always ride them till the wheels fall off, and break down for a decade.  Palmer was saying this when everyone was toilet papering his house and villainizing him, but fans are stupid.

"We're not in the business of making other teams better." - Mike Brown

[*ochocincos*]

(02-02-2021, 05:16 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I don't think Hart was given a big contract.. 3 year 16.5.. would not be big but I understand if we debate was he worth that contract.. we are talking about signing some tackles at $13 to 16 m  a year for this Free Agent offseason. 

At the time, Hart's contract was considered on the high end for the level of play he put on the field. He was being paid as a Top 10 RT when he signed his contract, IIRC.
RTs are starting to get more though for elite performance. Hart is now 14th in the NFL amongst highest-paid RTs based on APY.
I'm not sure I'd consider Hart to be a Top 15 RT in the league.

[Luvnit2]

(02-02-2021, 05:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It's mostly knowing/admitting what someone's talent level is and paying fair value for it.
Bobby Hart and CJ Uzomah weren't worth the amount they were given.
Uzomah specifically was given 3 years, $18 mill and has put up just 329 yards and 3 TDs in 18 games.
Trae Waynes was paid like a top 10 CB but wasn't even in the Top 20 in terms of performance.
Rey Maualuga was overpaid during his extension in 2015.

Meanwhile, you got actual good players like Marvin Jones and Andrew Whitworth leaving in FA because the Bengals didn't value them enough to make them want to stay.

You don't necessarily pay for need, but you should pay for positional value. QB, OL, pass rush, and CBs are considered the building blocks of most good teams. Pay good money to good players at those positions. Offensive weapons can be filled with draft picks and cheaper contracts, same with LBs.

Whittworth was offered almost the same amount of money, but for one less contract year. We have rehashed this a thousand times, Bengals made a solid offer to keep him, but his wife was upset they drafted not one but 2 replacements for him.

Mama not happy, noone is happy. So blame it on a bad draft decision (man was it bad), but don't act like Whitt walked due to bad offer from the team, if you state that, it is a lie.

As for Jones, he was a #2 receiver when he played here and has stayed a #2 receiver. He wanted to be #1 (over AJ) and be paid like a #1 WR so Bengals let him walk. Those are the facts as I know them.