Stevenson or Toney.?

[Luvnit2]

(01-26-2021, 12:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Stevenson with some not good measurements at Senior Bowl:
5'10", 182 lbs. Was listed at 6'0" and 190 in college.
Only 8.5" hands. That's smaller than John Ross (8.75"), who has had trouble with drops. It's typically believed that hand size less than 9.0" will result in some drops.

Guess who this is: He does not seem to drop a lot of passes. Very small hands.!!!!!!! Yes, It is Tyreek Hill!

Pro Day Date:
3/11/2016
40 Yard Dash:
4.29 seconds
40 Yard (MPH):
19.07 (MPH)
20 Yard Split:
2.51 seconds
10 Yard Split:
1.50 seconds
Bench Press:
(N/A) reps (225 lb)
Vertical Leap:
40.5 inches

Height:
68.13 inches
Weight:
185 lbs
Broad Jump:
129 inches
Hand Size:
8 inches
Arm Length:
30.5 inches
20 Yd Shuttle:
4.06 seconds
Three Cone:
6.53 seconds

[*ochocincos*]

(01-27-2021, 06:38 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Guess who this is: He does not seem to drop a lot of passes. Very small hands.!!!!!!! Yes, It is Tyreek Hill!

Pro Day Date:
3/11/2016
40 Yard Dash:
4.29 seconds
40 Yard (MPH):
19.07 (MPH)
20 Yard Split:
2.51 seconds
10 Yard Split:
1.50 seconds
Bench Press:
(N/A) reps (225 lb)
Vertical Leap:
40.5 inches

Height:
68.13 inches
Weight:
185 lbs
Broad Jump:
129 inches
Hand Size:
8 inches
Arm Length:
30.5 inches
20 Yd Shuttle:
4.06 seconds
Three Cone:
6.53 seconds

You really think Marquez Stevenson is going to be more like Tyreek Hill or John Ross?

[Luvnit2]

(01-27-2021, 06:41 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You really think Marquez Stevenson is going to be more like Tyreek Hill or John Ross?

No, I commented on a post where it was said 9" hands or less receivers are prone to drops.

Hill has 8" hands and I have not seen him have drop issues.

[*Synric*]

Kadarius Toney and Marquez Stevenson are both at the Senior Bowl but its D'Wayne Eskridge that is stealing the show.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-27-2021, 06:38 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Guess who this is: He does not seem to drop a lot of passes. Very small hands.!!!!!!! Yes, It is Tyreek Hill!

Oh yeah?

He's tied for 4th most drops in the NFL this year with 9. 

[*ochocincos*]

(01-27-2021, 06:49 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: No, I commented on a post where it was said 9" hands or less receivers are prone to drops.

Hill has 8" hands and I have not seen him have drop issues.

It doesn't say EVERY WR who has smaller than 9" hands is prone to drops.
But it is known that the smaller hands you have, the more difficult it can be catching the ball.
From what I recall, the "target threshold" that teams prefer for hand size is greater than 9.0"

FWIW, Hill had 6 drops in 2020, which was tied for 6th most in the NFL according to NBC Sports. He averaged 0.4 drops per game.
John Ross had 1 drop (0.5 per game since he only played in two games).
For comparison with some other prominent receivers (data collected via playerprofiler.com):
Higgins - 4 (0.3 per game)
Green - 3 (0.2 per game)
Keenan Allen - 3 (0.2 per game)
Allen Robinson - 3 (0.2 per game)

So Hill actually had more drops than maybe we realized.

Back around to Stevenson...from the tape I watched, he tends to try to catch passes into his body, not catching with his just his hands. TDN also mentioned he's not a natural hands catcher in their scouting report of him.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-27-2021, 07:01 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Oh yeah?

He's tied for 4th most drops in the NFL this year with 9. 

Is that including playoffs? playerprofiler.com and NBC Sports both have Hill listed at 6. Still not good, but better than 9.

[pulses]

(01-27-2021, 10:45 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Trading the 21st overall pick is WAY too much just to move up from 7 to 5.
But hey, if DET really wanted to do it, I would absolutely accept that offer.

A more realistic value for trade is pick 72 according to the trade value chart.

So in a move to balance in the middle, 7 and 41 for 5.

I could live with that. We could still get a solid OL and DT with those 2 picks in the 2nd with taking Pitts at 7.

[Jpoore]

This ain’t even a question? Toney is a top 32 player while Stevenson is a 4th round player

[pulses]

(01-28-2021, 02:28 AM)Jpoore Wrote: This ain’t even a question? Toney is a top 32 player while Stevenson is a 4th round player

Just like you said Wyatt Davis was a unanimous top 20 pick and I've saw many mocks have him going in the 3rd round because of his injury issues and he didn't play as well this past year as he did in years past.

[Jpoore]

(01-28-2021, 03:06 AM)pulses Wrote: Just like you said Wyatt Davis was a unanimous top 20 pick and I've saw many mocks have him going in the 3rd round because of his injury issues and he didn't play as well this past year as he did in years past.

Top 20 talent? Yeah he is... also mocks are just that. Mocks. He was elite this year just like last year.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-27-2021, 07:54 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Is that including playoffs? playerprofiler.com and NBC Sports both have Hill listed at 6. Still not good, but better than 9.

PFF 2020 regular season only. 

[pulses]

(01-28-2021, 03:33 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Top 20 talent? Yeah he is... also mocks are just that. Mocks. He was elite this year just like last year.

Everywhere i've read is that he wasn't as good this year as last so that's just your opinion. And the other day you said unanimous top 20 pick NOT talent.

[Jpoore]

(01-28-2021, 09:29 AM)pulses Wrote: Everywhere i've read is that he wasn't as good this year as last so that's just your opinion. And the other day you said unanimous top 20 pick NOT talent.

Not to anyone that watched the tape. He was just as good as last year. Just played through injury all year.

[pulses]

(02-01-2021, 02:16 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Not to anyone that watched the tape. He was just as good as last year. Just played through injury all year.

Well obviously many disagree with your assessment.

[Jpoore]

(02-01-2021, 06:35 AM)pulses Wrote: Well obviously many disagree with your assessment.

Not many do.

[pulses]

(02-01-2021, 04:56 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Not many do.

LOL Keep drinking the OSU OL Koolaid man.

[Jpoore]

(02-01-2021, 08:42 PM)pulses Wrote: LOL Keep drinking the OSU OL Koolaid man.

Nothing to do with that

[t3r3e3]

(01-27-2021, 11:01 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Speed always helps but if it's at the expense of being able to catch the ball, it might not pay off like you want if you don't trust your receiver to make the catch.
Also, Mahomes is a better deep ball thrower than Burrow.
Last, the Chiefs offense is way better at scheming receivers open compared to the Bengals.

In 2020, here is the overall average receiver target separation for Mahomes vs Burrow:
Mahomes - 1.94 yards (7th in NFL)
Burrow - 1.25 yards (30th in NFL)

If the Bengals get a fast guy, they need to use him a lot in the short and intermediate routes, which have a higher catch percentage compared to deeper routes.

While I agree with the speed aspect to a point, it can’t be denied that Andy Reid and his folks scheme receivers open better than just about anyone else in the league. Play design, looks, and route concepts play a part in this. I would like to see more speed provided it actually gets used instead of trotting out marginal talents like Erickson, Tate, etc. If the team does not re-sign AJ (I hope they don’t), then some combination of Higgins/Boyd/draft pick/draft pick-FA has to be the top 4 WR’s. The WR room needs some talent upgrades from WR3 back. Tate is fine as a WR5, but his glacial speed and zero separation don’t work away from the red zone.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-04-2021, 09:15 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: While I agree with the speed aspect to a point, it can’t be denied that Andy Reid and his folks scheme receivers open better than just about anyone else in the league. Play design, looks, and route concepts play a part in this. I would like to see more speed provided it actually gets used instead of trotting out marginal talents like Erickson, Tate, etc. If the team does not re-sign AJ (I hope they don’t), then some combination of Higgins/Boyd/draft pick/draft pick-FA has to be the top 4 WR’s. The WR room needs some talent upgrades from WR3 back. Tate is fine as a WR5, but his glacial speed and zero separation don’t work away from the red zone.

They don’t really work in the red zone either. He has 1 career TD in 3 years. I really fell for the hype with Tate because his catches always look so impressive since he’s never open, but I can admit when I was wrong. Tate is just not that good.